Starting Bessa Kit?

Juan Valdenebro said:
I agree with Roger: overriding AE can be a pain... And fine tuning, unless we talk about color negative, AE is not the most precise feature and can result in 90% shots of a trip totally wasted, because white walls, sky and light sources are not uncommon...
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I guess we'll just have to chalk that one up to hyperbole...or bad practice. I've been shooting AE off and on for 40 years, and never had a roll of film with 10% of the shots wasted, let alone 90%.

Cheers...

Rem
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
Dear Leigh,


You say: “I'm not quite sure what experience base with Bessas has prompted either of these comments. First, to "over-ride" AE you simply move the the speed dial off "A". Thereafter you either go fully manual (i.e. estimating the exposures) or you use the meter facility in the viewfinder and adjust the aperture or shutter speed according to taste.”


I was not talking about buttons or dials, but about going mentally, and then physically, lots of times, from the concept of AE to the concept of judging over a meter reading to vary it... I meant why trusting the exposure given by a blind average sensor in AE when that's just like always shooting at 0 with manual metering? And that is, having an imprecise exposure most of the times, not just a few of them... If you use negative you don't see it directly, but if you use slide film, in one roll shot under several lighting situations, few shots will be well exposed...


And you say: “Second, most Bessa users find the AE gives very good exposure control and with the under/over exposure settings on the shutter dial giving a full two stops in either direction it's the simplest thing to note any excess of light or dark in the scene and move the dial.”


If AE was really great, most pro cameras would have just that, and skip manual options... And handheld meters would have disappeared 40 years ago with the birth of AE... But reality is totally different, and shows how much a serious photographer can really trust AE... If you want to see it, go make a portrait of a subject in a white wall: you'll get a 1-2 stops underexposure... Or in a dark scene you'll get a gross overexposure... Or with backlighting situations, worse... So, what you talk about: knowing the light and setting compensation on camera... It can be used for doing a lot of shots in the same situation and place, yes, but that's not AE really: that's manual, because you see a reading and then, manually set another exposure change... And the same if you point here and there changing compensation several times: you're not having a really comfortable AE device: you're losing time, because you start thinking you won't need to worry about exposure, but that's a lie... You have no more than two options with AE: the first, is using it, trusting it, and missing lots of shots, and the other one, is taking decisions depending on the scene, and that's manual metering, and not AE...


Cheers,


Juan
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Nice theory. In practice it's much simpler and it works.
 
Rem, I guess precise exposure is not important to you as much as for other people... It may depend on what you need from your photography, your materials or your final output... You can be sure product and fashion sessions with slide film are NEVER EVER done with AE... But if it's great for you, that's fine... I have used it too: negative can hold it... Anyway, even with negative B&W, when you meter well, a contact sheet shows all shots well exposed, and with AE many shots are noticeably off... As always, some people care and some don't... Apart from that. for some of us, deciding exposure is a pleasure, one of the funniest parts of the game...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
Rem, I guess precise exposure is not important to you as much as for other people... It may depend on what you need from your photography, your materials or your final output... You can be sure product and fashion sessions with slide film are NEVER EVER done with AE... But if it's great for you, that's fine... I have used it too: negative can hold it... Anyway, even with negative B&W, when you meter well, a contact sheet shows all shots well exposed, and with AE many shots are noticeably off... As always, some people care and some don't... Apart from that. for some of us, deciding exposure is a pleasure, one of the funniest parts of the game...
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Look...I don't know what this "fashion" photography stuff is all about. Of course they don't use AE. I wouldn't either. And I would not and do not use it when I do a portrait. I have a nice incident light meter that takes care of my needs under those conditions, and even then I end up modifying exposure as I see fit. But we aren't talking about those extremely controlled conditions. At least I'm not. I'm talking about...let's just go out and take some pictures. I shot a roll of film with an Electro GS the other day where I specifically chose both average and "difficult" lightning. And in all cases there wasn't an exposure that didn't fall well within tolerance for getting a good print, even if "precision" would have dictated a bit of a different exposure in some of the cases. I'm sorry...I guess I just can't cozy up to this talk about what "good" photographer's do, and asides such as , "I guess precise exposure is not important to you as much as for other people..."

Cheers...

rem
 
Now it seems that you -from the beginning- thought like me: although it can work sometimes, AE is not a thing to trust always... I guess we all on RFF agree on that...
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
Rem, I guess precise exposure is not important to you as much as for other people... It may depend on what you need from your photography, your materials or your final output... You can be sure product and fashion sessions with slide film are NEVER EVER done with AE... But if it's great for you, that's fine... I have used it too: negative can hold it... Anyway, even with negative B&W, when you meter well, a contact sheet shows all shots well exposed, and with AE many shots are noticeably off... As always, some people care and some don't... Apart from that. for some of us, deciding exposure is a pleasure, one of the funniest parts of the game...

Cheers,

Juan
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I get the feeling that we're actually moving away from equipment per se, and more into aspects of the personality types of people who use the equipment.
 
Actually, when you go back to the OP and realise afresh that all he's asking for is some comments on a simple kit he's thinking about buying, we're now wading through the murky depths of people's personal preferences and justifications - all of which is no help at all to the OP.
 
Leigh Youdale said:
Actually, when you go back to the OP and realise afresh that all he's asking for is some comments on a simple kit he's thinking about buying, we're now wading through the murky depths of people's personal preferences and justifications - all of which is no help at all to the OP.
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Leigh...

You are absolutely correct. I'm outta here;)

Cheers...

Rem
 
Leigh Youdale said:
I get the feeling that we're actually moving away from equipment per se, and more into aspects of the personality types of people who use the equipment.
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In part, but more than tastes, here we're talking about photography in general, and equipment too: Leicas and Bessas or Hasselblads, for example: most of them lack AE.

And we're also talking about most good photographers in the world, now and in the past: they don't use AE.

As you just said, and as I just said: it's for some people, not for every photographer. Maybe you would be surprised if you started a poll asking what is better for image quality: AE or manual metering... That's all I said...

Good night,

Juan
 
Leigh Youdale said:
Actually, when you go back to the OP and realise afresh that all he's asking for is some comments on a simple kit he's thinking about buying, we're now wading through the murky depths of people's personal preferences and justifications - all of which is no help at all to the OP.
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Wrong. I commented after other member's posting, who with reason tried to clarify to the OP member that AE was not a real advantage as a member said...

Good night,

Juan
 
:confused:

lol, well thank you all for the help so far. And yes, I do understand the merits and ease AE can bring, but I also understand why it is desirable for many situations for manual control. After all if I was not in search of control over my imaging, I would have simply just stuck with a basic digi or film point and shoot :)
 
Excuse me jumping in here....

Excuse me jumping in here....

I have had a hankering for an M5, mainly because its the only M Ive handled and I liked it... But then I got to thinking for the price of good M5 I could get an R2M and a reasonable lens - I wanted a 2 because I mostly use a 35mm, sometimes 50, and rarely a longer (85mm) and the bright lines worked..
Now you guys have me thinking of an R3A and maybe sometime pick up an L or T for the wide stuff...

Sometimes I wish I never started reading forums.....:)


Gary H
 
I may have just made a big mistake by looking around the forum out of boredom and stumbling my way across the FSU section of the forum. I am feeling very tempted to pick up a FED 2 and a Jupiter 8 for a cheap price and if it works great, if it doesn't well I like to tinker with things so this could be a fun little project :)

Perhaps the Bessa will wait?
 
I recently picked up a Bessa R and J8 for a very small amount, it works well, and I since picked up a few more FSU lenses to go with it - all for less than the price of a new R2.. all on that auction site...
So it might be worth looking for a similar deal.


Gary H
 
I will have to definitely look around and see what I can find, but the FED 2 seems to be going for very cheap prices, of course it may not actually work but hey we'll see if I do go that route. That combined with either the Jupiter 8 or a FED/Industar 50 3.5 looks like it could be fun.

Kind of a checkpoint while I save for a Voigtlander perhaps,
 
I have a J8, it is OK, but the focus ring is very loose, it alters when I change f-stop, I also have an industar 61 (55, f2.8 ?) and it is the reverse, the focus is very tight. I think that the variations in these lenses mean that you may have to go through a number of them before you find one that you like. Good luck with the FED, I had thought of that route myself, but was put off by the many horror stories that I read about non-functioning units. I have just sold a lot of my digital gear that I hardly ever used and so I have some money to spend, but I must keep reminding myself that Ive just built a new house and it needs furnished!

Gary H
 
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Dear Chris,

One small warning. Buying 'affordable' cameras eats into the money you could otherwise put towards the camera you actually want. (Been there, done that...)

Cheers,

R.
 
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