Your safe hand held speed for a 50mm?

depends a lot on aperture as well... I've taken half second shots with my M6 @ f1.5 (50mm) and f1.4 (35mm) and got good results. no bracing.

do as the archers do... hold your breath, click between heartbeats ;)
 
As a related aside, a while back I did some tests with a monopod and a Mamiya 7 shot at various speeds compared against the same frame shot hand held at 1/500th and also 1/FL (using a 65mm, so 1/60th) and found that I could go one stop slower than 1/FL every time and guarantee a frame as sharp as 1/FL hand held, but this was taking care and in controlled conditions. At another stop slower still (1/15) some of the frames were indistinguishable from 1/60, but some were soft. So overall, I got a 1 stop guaranteed advantage with two stops if I can shoot multiples of the same frame.

A very good monopod can be had for relatively little and I slip mine down the side of my belt when not in use (travel type application). Very handy when speeds dip one stop below the ideal for handheld. Not ideal for some scenarios of course.
 
ulrich.von.lich said:
What's your 50mm hand held speed for a non-blurred picture? (excluding the object blur)
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Object blur cannot be excluded in most cases where I have the need for going to shutter speeds slower than 1/60s, since it is almost situations where I have to capture people in available light.

I believe that this is very much about technique, practice and being reasonably fit.
 
When my Dad began to let me shoot his Nikon S ( only under his direct supervision ), I was about six years old. At that time, Dad always told me to keep the shutter-speed above 1/30.

Most literature I was reading in my youth ( various camera pamphlets and photo books) suggested nothing slower than 1/50 - 1/60 for hand-held.

Then 20 years passed when I read little to nothing about photography, and took relatively few pics.

The bug bit me again about five years ago, and now in early middle-age, I'm doing a lot of serious reading about photography ( analog.).

I recently discovered the "rule" about using the fractional inverse of the lens's focal legnth as the slowest recommended shutter-speed for hand-held: 1/50 for 50mm lens, 1/100 for 90mm, etc.

This seems to be a good rule of thumb for shooting on the go.

I often cheat and wind-up shooting down to 1/30 or even 1/20 with my 35mm lenses, but know that I'm pushing the envelope.

I go on the premise that shooting 50 mm below 1/30 is a crap-shoot.

I was really startled by how unsteady my hands/body were the first time I put a fast 135mm lens on my Pentax Spotmatic... I thought I had suddenly developed the DT's ! :eek::eek:

Then there are way too many occasions when I feel I need to grab a shot when there's "no light", I have slow fillm (ASA 200), slow lenses ,etc, and no tripod. So, I give it a try... I've shot 1/20, 1/10, 1/8 with my Leica III... the results are usually blurry... :(

Luddite Frank
 
I've got blurred images at 1/250 with a 15mm! I thought I could shoot that focal length without caring too much about being still... After all 36 shots blurred on my roll, I learned the lesson... Being REALLY STILL is so important, and that's why best photographers have always talked about it... I prefer losing shadow detail (pushing) instead of shooting below 1/60...

Cheers,

Juan
 
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A neurological condition holds me to 1/30 with a rangefinder on a good day with little coffee, seated or otherwise braced. But most days, 1/60, again, seated, on my side, or otherwise braced. I prefer 1/125 or faster. This is why I tend to use 200 and 400 asa films. In standard posture for a rangefinder or SLR, my right thumb vibrates. I often have to hold the right side of the camera body with the heel of my thumb rather than the thumb itself to dampen the hold. And the harder I concentrate, the more apt my hands are to shake. Got to stay loose. Oh, to be young again ... :)
 
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With a normal or wide lens, 1/8 sec. is generally safe but 1/4 sec. can be tricky. In both, subject movement is a danger. When possible, I try to put my elbows on something firm -- even my own knees -- or to lean against a wall or a table. These things are true of M Leicas and were true of film SLRs. I am not so steady with digital SLRs and screw Leicas.
 
Hi, thanks for the inputs everyone!

I do a lot of low-light shootings. My camera is set at ISO1600 or above for most of time. I have a relatively fast lens, but I want my images to have enough DOF. That being said, I usually set the slowest possible shutter speed then adjust the aperture to the light. I'd increase the shutter speed once the aperture is about ok, but it's often not narrow enough. It may sound a little weird as many people seem to like a completed out-of-focus background.

When I said a blurred picture I meant a picture that is blurred regardless the printing size (or from the standard family picture size to infinite).

I'm still new to rangefinder. I was told the lack of mirror would lead to the greater hand held stability. After around 30 rolls of film, honestly I don't see much of a difference. The mirror in my OM4 must have been very gentle.

One reason I started the thread because I thought there were ways to challenge the rule of thumb. For example once I read an article on a DSLR website which tells you how to take advantage of the camera neck strap, with illustrations of standing and holding positions etc. Unfortunately I don't use the neck strap.

However I see some people put a small cap on the shutter button (called softie?) which they say would make the camera more stable. Does anyone use it and can share the experience?

In the meantime, I'd look to see if there's any yoga or pistolshooting lessons.

Thanks again.

Cheers
 
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kossi008 said:
As has been said before, it's all a matter of statistics and standards.

If I want *reliable* 50 mm shots, I go for 1/125 or faster, or use a monopod/tripod.
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Exactly. And indeed, if you're cold and tired and hungry and have just run up a flight of stairs, 1/500 might not be enough. If you're well fed and comfortable and can brace your elbows on a table, you might be OK at 1/5.

Too much depends on what's 'OK'. 'Test target OK' would be the same number of lp/mm as you'd get with a tripod, and for that, I'd not consider less than 1/125, and I'd prefer 1/250. I might be nearly as good at 1/60 or even 1/30, but I know that if I were shooting a test target, I'd lose sharpness.

The thing is, comparing hand-held shots with test targets shot using a tripod is completely meaningless. I've got a few pics I really like that were shot at 1 and 1/2 second with a 50mm, rather more at 1/4, and plenty at 1/8 and 1/15. Some of them are blurry as hell, but so what? If you don't play, you can't win. My rule of thumb is 'try it'.

Answering the OP, I'd also say that in my experience, tricks with straps and softies are psychological: either they work because you think they're working, or you think that they work because you see what you want to see.

Cheers,

R.
 
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I think Fujifilm did a survey, and concluded that most people could hold steady 1/30, but not below. Obviously some people can do better, and some worse, but 1/30 sounds reasonable to me, particularly as some shots need to be taken quickly, and there is no time for breathing exercises or bracing against something.
 
ulrich.von.lich said:
However I see some people put a small cap on the shutter button (called softie?) which they say would make the camera more stable. Does anyone use it and can share the experience?

In the meantime, I'd look to see if there's any yoga or pistolshooting lessons.
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A softie helps; an elbow on your chest helps; a mini-pod or bracing to a wall or both helps more. Also, avoiding the shutter button alltogether and using the self-timer is good, too, if you are not looking for an instantaneous shot. You can also attach a thread to your camera tripod mount, step on it, and hold the thread under tension .....

The pistol shooting stuff goes like this: before shooting, breathe in very deeply a couple of times. Then, breathe in and out slowly, and while you breathe out, push the shutter button.



Remember however, a faster lens, faster film and bracketing have usually more impact :) And, a shot at 1/15 will always be less sharp than 1/250, unless shot on a steady tripod.

Roland.
 
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ferider said:
A softie helps; an elbow on your chest helps; a mini-pod or bracing to a wall or both helps more. Also, avoiding the shutter button alltogether and using the self-timer is good, too, if you are not looking for an instantaneous shot. You can also attach a thread to your camera tripod mount, step on it, and hold the thread under tension .....

Roland.
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Dear Roland,

While I completely agree about the minipod and the wall, I completely disagree about the others for me. Softies have no effect at all, except adding to the bulk of the camera and making it less comfortable to use; any way of putting any elbows on my chest is less comfortable and therefore more shake-prone; using the self timer for a hand-held shot completely destroys my normal technique, whch depends on knowng when the camera is going to fire (the slow exhalation/pistol-shooting method); and the piece-of-string method again makes things worse. All, I repeat, for me.

This is not to say that either of us or right or wrong. Obviously you wouldn't say they work for you, if they didn't. But equally, they are either neutral or make things worse as far as I am concerned. Which of us the OP may take after is necessarily a mater of (very cheap!) experiment for him; but if they don't work, it doesn't necessarily mean he's doing them wrong.

Cheers,

R.
 
I pretty much always use a softie. it makes using the camera more comfortable for me, therefore it does help. but that's just me, ymmv.
 
It's a funny thing about the softie, Roger: using it caused me to change my technique, using the finger joint instead of tip to push the shutter button. That did help in reducing shake. Now that I'm used to the new technique, I use it without softie, too, with the same effect. Still, I prefer the feel of the softie.

Note that none of my suggestions are my inventions, just stuff I found to work for others, tried and confirmed that they are working for me. Regarding elbow (or mini-pod) on chest, and self release, these are actually described in old Leica literature :)

But I agree with you - it's all quite personal, and what works for me might not work for others - best way is to try and see.

Roland.
 
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I've found that I can almost always successfully hand-hold at 1/60, usually at 1/30 but I'll do a few frames just to be sure, and sometimes at 1/15 if I really concentrate and I'll always do a few to several frames at that speed.

I've found that bracing against something solid (lamp post, newspaper box) helps. Elbows on some solid surface really helps!
 
With an SLR my safe limit is 1/15, but I still shoot at 1/8 when I need it. 1/4 is kinda pushing it.
 
i've been away for a couple of days since making my earlier post and I find this thread has taken on a life of its own. To the doubters of hand held shots at 1/8 etc., I can only say that sure I would love it if I could always be at 1/125 and not have to worry, but a lot of the time its just not going to happen. If you are not finding yourself having to shoot at 1/8 or 1/15, then you're not doing too much shooting indoors with available light even at EI 800. Sure I have some shots that aren't razor sharp but I got the shot. I also have some where I think I would have to make a close side by side inspection of two prints to tell the difference between fast shutter and slow shutter. At this point, I think its just splitting hairs. And by the way, whats a softie?
 
And by the way, whats a softie?
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Soft release. Now being discussed on another thread. In my not so humble opinion, it doesn't hurt, but gives you maybe 1/2 stop advantage at most.
 
With my DSLR....Ummmm my smallest lens is a 55mm MF Takumar...With "SR" on, and properly braced and not breathing...I have done 1/8. With my M5, Ummm, Got to see what I can do with that f/1.1 Nokton.
 
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