Krzys
Well-known
I have been thinking...
I always seem to try hard to blur the background and isolate foreground subjects in portraits and such...now I want to do the opposite. Shoot wide angle lenses with maximum depth of field and specifically aim to create a photo has both pleasing foreground and background elements...all in focus.
Portraits seem like a good challenge, especially with the wide angle lens. The background must play a part in the photo and demand alot of my attention.
Can anyone share examples of what I am talking about. A close up subject, be it an interesting object or a person...but with a background which is interesting in its own element. Even dominant over the subject in an interesting way yet benefits from the subject rather than alone.
I always seem to try hard to blur the background and isolate foreground subjects in portraits and such...now I want to do the opposite. Shoot wide angle lenses with maximum depth of field and specifically aim to create a photo has both pleasing foreground and background elements...all in focus.
Portraits seem like a good challenge, especially with the wide angle lens. The background must play a part in the photo and demand alot of my attention.
Can anyone share examples of what I am talking about. A close up subject, be it an interesting object or a person...but with a background which is interesting in its own element. Even dominant over the subject in an interesting way yet benefits from the subject rather than alone.
Thardy
Mentor
I do it all the time with a compact digicam, which seems to have unlimited dof, but I have a feeling that you want to use a real camera.
Mablo
Well-known
It's easy to do with a CV 21mm/4 lens. I use at least f/11, preferably f/16 and set the focus at 1m. Then I can use the camera as a P&S.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Depending on how close your close subject is, this can actually be incredibly difficult. On the other hand, you have the benefit of actual wide angle (12, 15, 21 mm) lenses and small format (35mm). Both of those work to increase depth of field.
There is a technique to doing this in large format photography which involves playing with tilts and swings to move the plane of focus, so that you have what you want in focus. I guess that is not particularly relevant here in rff.
There is a technique to doing this in large format photography which involves playing with tilts and swings to move the plane of focus, so that you have what you want in focus. I guess that is not particularly relevant here in rff.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Great shots here!
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
Krzys
Well-known
FrankS
Registered User
Generally, I prefer the more limited DOF effect: anywhere from just a slight unsharpness to the background, to the razor-thin DOF where even the main subject exibits out of focus areas. I love that about photography. It's totally subjective however.
Spyro
Well-known
Μy kind of shooting 
The square ones are taken with a mamiya 6 and normal lens, which still works for hyperfocal shooting if you stop down enough. The others are taken with an LX3 and s90 which both have unlimited dof at all apertures when profocused at 2m.
The square ones are taken with a mamiya 6 and normal lens, which still works for hyperfocal shooting if you stop down enough. The others are taken with an LX3 and s90 which both have unlimited dof at all apertures when profocused at 2m.
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Luddite Frank
Well-known
Just a few thoughts from a "book-smart" though ham-handed amateur...
Depending on the type of portrait shot you're looking to end-up with, the "classic" mid-20th Century head / "bust" shot would have used a fairly long FL lens for shallow DOF, having perhaps only the nose & front of face sharp, then the hair / ears OOF....
If you're looking to shoot close to your subject, yet keep DOF as great as possible, you should probably shoot a wide lens, to increase the effective DOF.
I 've gotten leary of stopping-down too much, as folks like "crazy" Ken Rockwell have put the "fear of diffraction" in my head, so I try not to stop-down any more than 1/2 way on a given lens... ( probably more of an issue with smaller formats, such as 35mm ).
Most of my shooting ( buildings, land & city-scapes) is "documentary" work - creating a historcal record - so I want everything in the frame to be as sharp as possible... there are occasions when I want to "screen-out" irrelevant stuff in the background, so then I'll open-up and pick a target for sharp focus.
95% of my shooting is done with a 35mm lens on my Barnack - either an Elmar 3,5 or Canon 1.8.
For tight detail / "portrait" shots, I usually haul out my Pentax Spotmatic with the 105 Takumar ... and put it on a tripod.
Depending on the type of portrait shot you're looking to end-up with, the "classic" mid-20th Century head / "bust" shot would have used a fairly long FL lens for shallow DOF, having perhaps only the nose & front of face sharp, then the hair / ears OOF....
If you're looking to shoot close to your subject, yet keep DOF as great as possible, you should probably shoot a wide lens, to increase the effective DOF.
I 've gotten leary of stopping-down too much, as folks like "crazy" Ken Rockwell have put the "fear of diffraction" in my head, so I try not to stop-down any more than 1/2 way on a given lens... ( probably more of an issue with smaller formats, such as 35mm ).
Most of my shooting ( buildings, land & city-scapes) is "documentary" work - creating a historcal record - so I want everything in the frame to be as sharp as possible... there are occasions when I want to "screen-out" irrelevant stuff in the background, so then I'll open-up and pick a target for sharp focus.
95% of my shooting is done with a 35mm lens on my Barnack - either an Elmar 3,5 or Canon 1.8.
For tight detail / "portrait" shots, I usually haul out my Pentax Spotmatic with the 105 Takumar ... and put it on a tripod.
Krzys
Well-known
Spyro nice photos but I am thinking of subjects even closer. The 5th photo you posted is exactly what I am trying to avoid and overcome.
Luddite Frank I think you're missing the point of this thread sorry. I will be shooting wide angle and I want to have everything in focus. Conventional ethics and techniques are irrelivant. This is just an exercise to become conscious of backgrounds when working close and perhaps lead to broadened horizons and creative results.
Luddite Frank I think you're missing the point of this thread sorry. I will be shooting wide angle and I want to have everything in focus. Conventional ethics and techniques are irrelivant. This is just an exercise to become conscious of backgrounds when working close and perhaps lead to broadened horizons and creative results.
Sparrow
Mentor
If one believes the sums, then CV’s little 12mm is already suffering diffraction problems at it’s widest aperture of f5.6, hand held on 35mm diffraction is pretty low on my list of priorities
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Great thread topic Chris!
I tend to be of the school of using the largest possible aperture out of habit and isolating my subjects as much as possible. It's nice to discuss an alternate point of view and see some excellent examples!
I tend to be of the school of using the largest possible aperture out of habit and isolating my subjects as much as possible. It's nice to discuss an alternate point of view and see some excellent examples!
Spyro
Well-known
Krzys yeah I guess I got a bit carried away
That photo you're talking about was taken at f8 from memory, not nearly small enough for a 75mm lens.
That photo you're talking about was taken at f8 from memory, not nearly small enough for a 75mm lens.
Krzys
Well-known
I was trying to shoot portraits with the GR1 and 28mm lens and found that I could not blur the background enough to avoid the careless cluttered and busy backgrounds I chose behind the subject. Solve the problem! Deliberately shoot stopped down portraits and pay very close attention to the background and how it works for you. I think it will produce much more interesting results in the long run and can be applied to wide aperture of course.
Spyro its more about the flags and buildings coming out of the Girls head's. Busy and distracting when with some care it could work very well aesthetically...in theory. Shoot with even more depth to emphasize your background and improve.
This is NOT about grab shots with busy backgrounds being BAD. Its about focusing a little on improving your composition so you can apply it to later grab shots ect.
Spyro its more about the flags and buildings coming out of the Girls head's. Busy and distracting when with some care it could work very well aesthetically...in theory. Shoot with even more depth to emphasize your background and improve.
This is NOT about grab shots with busy backgrounds being BAD. Its about focusing a little on improving your composition so you can apply it to later grab shots ect.
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Spyro
Well-known
Gotcha. I know I cant do it in the street, this is as good as it gets for me. Maybe with static subjects yes, otherwise it would take a much better (and faster) photographer than me
hitmanh
dum de dum de doo
Cool thread, I'm quite intrigued by the idea. Generally I try to isolate my subjct as much as possible, the idea of actively including the background never really struck me before (lack of imagination maybe). Anyway, I was just messing with a Pentax 28mm/3.5 lens and it does actually have marks on the barrel for a 'point and shoot' mode. Set it to F8 and focus to 3 meters and everything from inifinity to 1.5 meters should be in focus. Weekend camping in Wales and an up and coming wedding should be allow for some experimentation.
Cheers
Matt
Cheers
Matt
gilpen123
Gil
I strive to make everything sharp with this shot
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Krzys
Well-known
Well the depth of 35mm makes things easy. Wide angles too easy! I used to zone focus a 50mm at f2.8-4 and some how get moving subjects in focus. Terrible photos of boring people from a bad perspective though.Gotcha. I know I cant do it in the street, this is as good as it gets for me. Maybe with static subjects yes, otherwise it would take a much better (and faster) photographer than me
hitmanh do post the results thanks!
Anyone who has any examples which fit the goal of this thread then please post them!
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denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
Great capture Gil!
gilpen123
Gil
Thanks Denmark!