Adam14
Established
I am interested in getting a rangefinder and I started a thread on the MP forum where the numerous replies that I got were very helpful and informative. One of the options that I am now considering is an R3A or R3M.I understand what the difference is between the two but would very much appreciate your thoughts and comments on these two models.
Thanks,
Adam
Thanks,
Adam
Clovis
Established
The R3A has an electronic shutter (battery dependent) and has AE, aperture priority mode.
The R3M has a mechanical shutter (battery independent), but retains a battery dependent meter.
As far I know, the two cameras are otherwise functionally the same.
The R3M has a mechanical shutter (battery independent), but retains a battery dependent meter.
As far I know, the two cameras are otherwise functionally the same.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Just to clarify what Clovis stated, although the R3A has AE (like the M7) it can also be used as a fully manual camera with one exception. If your battery fails the shutter won't work. The M7 has a "fail-safe" single speed at which the mechanical shutter will still operate.
However, in spite of some comments, the batteries you need for the R3A are cheap, small (LR44 or SR44) and don't fail unless you drain them by leaving the camera switched on. I carry spares but have never needed to replace them in the field. I do it once a year on my birthday! I personally find the AE function very quick and easy for street or candid shots. Fully manual is just a bit slower unless you're smart enough to have preset shutter and aperture to the correct ones for the shot you're going to take in another minute or two. It can be done, but you have to be constantly aware of changing light and keep adjusting your camera (within reason) in anticipation. I can't be bothered.
However, in spite of some comments, the batteries you need for the R3A are cheap, small (LR44 or SR44) and don't fail unless you drain them by leaving the camera switched on. I carry spares but have never needed to replace them in the field. I do it once a year on my birthday! I personally find the AE function very quick and easy for street or candid shots. Fully manual is just a bit slower unless you're smart enough to have preset shutter and aperture to the correct ones for the shot you're going to take in another minute or two. It can be done, but you have to be constantly aware of changing light and keep adjusting your camera (within reason) in anticipation. I can't be bothered.
pggunn
gregor
Hi Adam,
I had an R3A for a while and loved it, but if I had the choice today I'd go with the R3M. Why? Because as Clovis said, the shutter is mechanical, so if the battery goes dead you can still continue to shoot.
I think there are other benefits as well. The cameras I've been using for the last year or so are similar to the R3M in that they do not have AE, just a built in meter. Not having AE has forced me to consider my exposures more carefully. I think that has made me a better photographer. I've gotten much better at estimating a good exposure, compensating for backlighting and other complications, etc. Please understand I said better, not necessarily good!
Anyway, that's my two cents. Either way, I think you'll like the R3M or the R3A. I hope to get one in the near future.
Good luck whichever way you go!
Greg
I had an R3A for a while and loved it, but if I had the choice today I'd go with the R3M. Why? Because as Clovis said, the shutter is mechanical, so if the battery goes dead you can still continue to shoot.
I think there are other benefits as well. The cameras I've been using for the last year or so are similar to the R3M in that they do not have AE, just a built in meter. Not having AE has forced me to consider my exposures more carefully. I think that has made me a better photographer. I've gotten much better at estimating a good exposure, compensating for backlighting and other complications, etc. Please understand I said better, not necessarily good!
Anyway, that's my two cents. Either way, I think you'll like the R3M or the R3A. I hope to get one in the near future.
Good luck whichever way you go!
Greg
Steve M.
Mentor
I had an R3A and liked it a lot. The shutter isn't the quietest, but if the camera's in a half case it's muffled quite a bit. Unfortunately, you can't use a half case w/ a side grip, and I found the grip to be essential. It makes the camera a lot easier to hold, and has a strap lug on it so you don't have the camera's lens digging into your back, which you WILL have w/o the grip.
The view in the viewfinder is clear and bright, but the RF patch isn't as contrasty as an M3, but then what is? I liked the AE feature a lot, and w/ the little AE Lock button it's super fast to adjust for different lighting conditions. Got a back lit subject? Just point the camera at the ground or some other area of middle value, lock the exposure, re focus and shoot. The shutter speeds in the finder white out in any sort of bright (or even not so bright) light, but after a while you know that at a certain aperture your shutter speeds are going to be within a certain range, so you can just wing it. They're great cameras for the price, and do 90% of what an M7 can do at 1/3 the price of a used M7. Just don't confuse the build quality w/ a Leica. You pay a premium for a hand assembled German camera, and get what you pay for.
The view in the viewfinder is clear and bright, but the RF patch isn't as contrasty as an M3, but then what is? I liked the AE feature a lot, and w/ the little AE Lock button it's super fast to adjust for different lighting conditions. Got a back lit subject? Just point the camera at the ground or some other area of middle value, lock the exposure, re focus and shoot. The shutter speeds in the finder white out in any sort of bright (or even not so bright) light, but after a while you know that at a certain aperture your shutter speeds are going to be within a certain range, so you can just wing it. They're great cameras for the price, and do 90% of what an M7 can do at 1/3 the price of a used M7. Just don't confuse the build quality w/ a Leica. You pay a premium for a hand assembled German camera, and get what you pay for.
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Jackson
Newbie
Woigtllander R3A
Woigtllander R3A
I had an R3A for a few months and the shutter failed twice. I now have Leicas M3 and M6. The R3A was second hand so maybe my experience was unusal.
Jackson
Woigtllander R3A
I had an R3A for a few months and the shutter failed twice. I now have Leicas M3 and M6. The R3A was second hand so maybe my experience was unusal.
Jackson
jpberger
Established
I haven't shot with an r3m, (I've got an r3a) but my understanding is that the 3m also has a different meter display which displays an led tree in half stops showing the range between the selected shutter speed and the meter centre average reading. the r3a displays whole stop shutter speeds only(although the shutter in AE mode is stepless, unlike the r3m) I find that the meter response in the r3a is fast enough that it's easy to sweep around the scene and get a good sense of the luminance range and then hit the ae lock on the desired value. The exposure compensation dial is also very elegantly designed and easy to use.
I get about 30 rolls on a set of batteries, when the low battery warning comes on there's usually a couple rolls left. The best place I've found to get silver oxide sr44s is at big outdoor coops REI in the US and MEC in Canada.
I get about 30 rolls on a set of batteries, when the low battery warning comes on there's usually a couple rolls left. The best place I've found to get silver oxide sr44s is at big outdoor coops REI in the US and MEC in Canada.
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
If you have used non AE cameras before, the R3M is a great camera...
If you use AE as your normal way of shooting, a new R3A with warranty is the way to go... And you can have fun with it in manual too...
Cheers,
Juan
If you use AE as your normal way of shooting, a new R3A with warranty is the way to go... And you can have fun with it in manual too...
Cheers,
Juan
kshapero
South Florida Man
Just check out: http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm for all the answers. The R3M looks better in black paint.
Savara
Member
I should note that M7 has two backup mechanical speeds, 1/60 and 1/125.
As for the R3M, which I own along with the M7, functionally they are sure the same but there are few commonly overlooked things about R3M vs R3A differences.
These are the material of the top cover, which is black paint for M and gray matte for A. I personally don't like the matte feeling. Second is the lack of sutter release lock in M. You can turn R3A off by turning the lock on the shutter release button, but you can't do that in R3M.
As for the R3M, which I own along with the M7, functionally they are sure the same but there are few commonly overlooked things about R3M vs R3A differences.
These are the material of the top cover, which is black paint for M and gray matte for A. I personally don't like the matte feeling. Second is the lack of sutter release lock in M. You can turn R3A off by turning the lock on the shutter release button, but you can't do that in R3M.
Adam14
Established
I woke up this morning to find all these extremely helpful replies!
Thank you all very much for taking the time. The information and comments you have given will be so helpful when I make my final decision. And yes,I have visited the cameraquest site which has so much info. I plan to buy from Stephen if I go for a Voigtlander.
My main concern is that it will take me several rolls at least(with many improperly exposed photos) to figure out how to use my first rangefinder. I assume that the more experienced of you get things correct right away. Or,will I be pleasantly surprised? I am looking forward to this as being a fun learning experience
Cheers,
Adam
Thank you all very much for taking the time. The information and comments you have given will be so helpful when I make my final decision. And yes,I have visited the cameraquest site which has so much info. I plan to buy from Stephen if I go for a Voigtlander.
My main concern is that it will take me several rolls at least(with many improperly exposed photos) to figure out how to use my first rangefinder. I assume that the more experienced of you get things correct right away. Or,will I be pleasantly surprised? I am looking forward to this as being a fun learning experience
Cheers,
Adam
Krosya
Konicaze
While I like cameras with AE, I have Hexars RF for that. So for fully mechanical back ups I have a Leica m5 and a Bessa R3m limited. I seem to come across more reports of RxA's Being more problematic than RxMs, yet that just could be a coincidence. But all in all I think that all mechanical camera is better. Too many cameras rely on electronics so I like to have options - so I usually have a mechanical back-up just in case.
Adam14
Established
Thanks very much for that. I will be interested to see if there is any kind of consensus of A vs M models in terms of reliability but I suspect that if there were more problems with the A model,it would be well known by now on the forum.I do like the idea of not having to necessarily rely on batteries.
Cheers,
Adam
Cheers,
Adam
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have owned both and both are great rigs, but the R3M does it for me. The looks, the better shots I get from thinking about both shutter speed and aperture. But you will not go wrong with either.
