Ronald M
Mentor
My wife`s cousin is a busy doctor. I queried why he does film. Answer was film is cheaper and faster, just drop it off and its done.
I don`t personally see the big deal why you can`t drop off a set of digi files, but I`ll let him decide.
To me, the advantage is photoshop and both can go there. Those are the files you drop off. Being a darkroom guy, I am almost never satisfied with prints that have not seen photoshop.
I don`t personally see the big deal why you can`t drop off a set of digi files, but I`ll let him decide.
To me, the advantage is photoshop and both can go there. Those are the files you drop off. Being a darkroom guy, I am almost never satisfied with prints that have not seen photoshop.
Armoured
Well-known
Good job! Now let's start spreading the word that medium format is much better, so that the number of labs doing 120 doesn't drop any further!
(But give me a month or two to buy the last bits of equipment I want...)
Seriously, the trends are all over the place - I travel a lot and see very different situation in different countries. But some overall trends from my perspective:
1) So many shops have stopped developing/printing in richer countries that those remaining are picking up the business. Just as importantly, when everyone did photofinishing, the margins sucked - so I think those still in the business are happy with it, as I bet the margins have improved. (Obviously precisely where markets are locally in demand/competition depends...)
2) In a lot of cases, providing photofinishing is as much about the additional foot traffic - so those that have it now are happy with that, too.
3) I echo the point about computers (some people just don't work well with them), but I'd add: don't assume printing electronically is so easy in most countries.
4) I've noticed that poorer countries still have close-to-ubiquitous photofinishing availability; not everyone has computers. This could go either way long-term, but I suspect it provides a good customer base to ensure that a lot of film still gets made.
In the end, I think that in business/economic terms, this is a case where we are transitioning from photofinishing being a mass-market commodity product. It was great while it lasted for photographers, but mediocre for a lot of shops in the business - a lot of them offered photofinishing because they 'had to' (everyone else did). The market has changed and is finding new equilibria - which will differ from place to place.
Truth told, I only have serious difficulty buying/developing medium format while travelling. Which is too bad for me, because that's precisely when I usually have 'extra' time to photograph and use my medium format gear. But it's manageable.
Fujitsu
-
She needs a better digital camera. Something like the Oly EP-L1 with great JPG output.
Great files out of the camera with good contrast and color, thats where digital really improved in the last two years. Earlier digital cameras definitely needed more post processing to make photos look right.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/04/07/the-olympus-e-pl1-review-the-best-jpeg-camera-ever/
pakeha
Well-known
Looking at your avatar, this line makes perfect sense! Ah luv et!
well, i`m working on the other days! err, i mean at work
---
I did a road trip in a TR6 many years ago - WHAT suspension?
regards
CW
retro
-
I can see where a person would prefer to just shoot a roll, drop it
off and then have prints and maybe a scan too.
No photo editing, no printing, no ink & paper to buy ...
off and then have prints and maybe a scan too.
No photo editing, no printing, no ink & paper to buy ...
braver
Well-known
Definitely. All anecdotal ofcourse, but still. I can totally see how shooting a couple of rolls is easier for the moms amongst us to get some sweet looking prints.
Another example. The cultural center at the local university campus didn't run a darkroom class for about three years until spring last year. It was booked full in no time. Now, they're running 4 classes a year again, and will upgrade some of the enlargers this summer. Okay, they're teaching basic b&w darkroom skills to only 40 people a year, but the mood is totally switched to "we're back in business!". Way cool. Lot's of interest in Lomo actually, but you can't blame students for not buying Leicas
besk
Well-known
TR6? That car was too modern with roll up side windows.
Mine was a TR3A. Now that was wind-and-rain-in-your-face car!
Mine was a TR3A. Now that was wind-and-rain-in-your-face car!
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
And yet, as film use surges in popularity, film sales continue to decline in double digits quarter after quarter. It's a mystery.
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
Won't be long at this rate until everyone is using film and nobody is selling it.
Faintandfuzzy
Well-known
For me, my issue as a wedding and portrait photographer, was that I was starting to dread each wedding. Why? After running through my normal 750-1000 exposures for a whole day event, I would then spend about 20+ hours in post processing. I went back to using my old standby....Fuji Pro 400H. I now drop off the film, and in a couple of days download the scans. They are dust free...with perfect color.
Now, I spend a couple of hours sorting, converting to B&W, etc. I still shoot some digital...but each wedding has about 10 rolls of film involved. As well, I've included some B&W film which I have silver printed on fibre paper....and the customers pay more for it.
The local lab has been processing nealry 10 times the amount of film this year as last year. They have also had scanning service volumes skyrocket.
Saving at least ten hours a wedding means over 40 hours less time a month in front of a computer.....that's a whole week...8 hours a day....that is now back into my life.
Now, I spend a couple of hours sorting, converting to B&W, etc. I still shoot some digital...but each wedding has about 10 rolls of film involved. As well, I've included some B&W film which I have silver printed on fibre paper....and the customers pay more for it.
The local lab has been processing nealry 10 times the amount of film this year as last year. They have also had scanning service volumes skyrocket.
Saving at least ten hours a wedding means over 40 hours less time a month in front of a computer.....that's a whole week...8 hours a day....that is now back into my life.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Wimps, a TR3B without a top and somewhat yellowed side windows, so I never bothered to put them on. In the rain (frequent in Vancouver) you just carried a towel to wipe yourself dry and to sit on. The TR4/TR6 had wind up windows!!!!!
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
You gotta love this forum... like a parallel universe... simultaneous debates in the same thread...
Surge is probably not the best adjective... processing 20 -30 rolls of film per day is hardly going to keep the doors open of my local lab. But there does seem to be renewed interest in using film as an imaging media in my local area among mothers and students.
As for film continuing sales decline... I can understand that. I work with a number of people in the film industry, OK, Sydney is not Hollywood, but Sydney is the home of Fox Studios that produces steady stream of major releases like the Matrix series and etc. According to my contacts, while film is being used an archival media, there is big trend toward digital especially among small film makers and documentaries. And the Canon 5D Mk II has been a huge hit among small producers. As the movie industry continues to move toward digital there will continue to be a steady and major decline in film sales.
The survival of film depends on the ability of manufacturers to move their production lines from mass production to a small run, speciality product. If I was going to make any prediction about film, it go along these lines... I believe film will be continue to be made indefinitely, probably even forever, but not by the familiar names that we now know, Kodak or Fuji, but by either a currently small firm such as Efke or Foma, or by a start-up that is purpose built for small runs.
There was a discussion of profit margins in developing/printing... this is indeed true. Charing Cross make no bones about being expensive... $14 for processing and a set of prints from a 24 exp roll of C-41. But I am happy to pay that as the service they provide is top notch. Charing Cross use an Agfa machine for prints, they are happy to set-up a profile for each film that I bring in, in fact they have reprinted a 5 rolls of film now 3 times for me at no charge to get the exact contrast, color correction, and etc. that I want... and all this for a nice set of 4x6 prints. They print on heavy paper and the finished product is simply gorgeous 4x6 prints that are a joy to behold.
I can hear all the US-based photographers proclaiming that they could never afford $14 a roll, and that was my opinion for a while. But I suddenly realised that I will pay for what I want, I buy the morning paper each day... $1... and have at least 1 espresso every day and usually 3 at $3 each... so I am willing to $7 to $10 each day on little things that I consider essential to me having a good day. Photography has been a very important part of my life for over 30 years, something that I find great joy in. So allowing my self to shoot a roll or two of film each week is no different than my allowance to drink 3 espresso's each day. So simply drinking a few less cups of coffee each week and buying the paper only every other day, I am getting my film processed and printed for free.
It is one of life small pleasures to be able to use my 50 year old Nikon F to expose rolls of film that I drop-off at the lab. The next afternoon I pick-up an envelope of beautiful prints that I review over a cup of coffee at my favorite café.
Surge is probably not the best adjective... processing 20 -30 rolls of film per day is hardly going to keep the doors open of my local lab. But there does seem to be renewed interest in using film as an imaging media in my local area among mothers and students.
As for film continuing sales decline... I can understand that. I work with a number of people in the film industry, OK, Sydney is not Hollywood, but Sydney is the home of Fox Studios that produces steady stream of major releases like the Matrix series and etc. According to my contacts, while film is being used an archival media, there is big trend toward digital especially among small film makers and documentaries. And the Canon 5D Mk II has been a huge hit among small producers. As the movie industry continues to move toward digital there will continue to be a steady and major decline in film sales.
The survival of film depends on the ability of manufacturers to move their production lines from mass production to a small run, speciality product. If I was going to make any prediction about film, it go along these lines... I believe film will be continue to be made indefinitely, probably even forever, but not by the familiar names that we now know, Kodak or Fuji, but by either a currently small firm such as Efke or Foma, or by a start-up that is purpose built for small runs.
There was a discussion of profit margins in developing/printing... this is indeed true. Charing Cross make no bones about being expensive... $14 for processing and a set of prints from a 24 exp roll of C-41. But I am happy to pay that as the service they provide is top notch. Charing Cross use an Agfa machine for prints, they are happy to set-up a profile for each film that I bring in, in fact they have reprinted a 5 rolls of film now 3 times for me at no charge to get the exact contrast, color correction, and etc. that I want... and all this for a nice set of 4x6 prints. They print on heavy paper and the finished product is simply gorgeous 4x6 prints that are a joy to behold.
I can hear all the US-based photographers proclaiming that they could never afford $14 a roll, and that was my opinion for a while. But I suddenly realised that I will pay for what I want, I buy the morning paper each day... $1... and have at least 1 espresso every day and usually 3 at $3 each... so I am willing to $7 to $10 each day on little things that I consider essential to me having a good day. Photography has been a very important part of my life for over 30 years, something that I find great joy in. So allowing my self to shoot a roll or two of film each week is no different than my allowance to drink 3 espresso's each day. So simply drinking a few less cups of coffee each week and buying the paper only every other day, I am getting my film processed and printed for free.
It is one of life small pleasures to be able to use my 50 year old Nikon F to expose rolls of film that I drop-off at the lab. The next afternoon I pick-up an envelope of beautiful prints that I review over a cup of coffee at my favorite café.
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ferider
Mentor
The survival of film (mass production, that is) depends primarily on the movie industry, not on us.
aad
Not so new now.
I wasn't going to mention this 'til I saw this thread-
Dear friends of ours with a young child visited us this weekend-I showed them some snapshots I took during their last visit.
THEY said film looked so much better-this on a monitor! Yikes. I said I'd send them files,or give them prints. they practically begged for prints.
Now these folks tend to keep their pictures ON THEIR CAMERA!
Other side of story-my local drugstores do a nice enough job of developing and scanning to disc-but their printing is wretched for some reason. Unless I take their CD and put it in the "fast" self-serve kiosk. Then they look fine. Weird, eh?
Dear friends of ours with a young child visited us this weekend-I showed them some snapshots I took during their last visit.
THEY said film looked so much better-this on a monitor! Yikes. I said I'd send them files,or give them prints. they practically begged for prints.
Now these folks tend to keep their pictures ON THEIR CAMERA!
Other side of story-my local drugstores do a nice enough job of developing and scanning to disc-but their printing is wretched for some reason. Unless I take their CD and put it in the "fast" self-serve kiosk. Then they look fine. Weird, eh?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Roland,
This makes sense as obviouslly huge amounts must be manufactured every year for the movie industry and if they stop using it god only knows what reduction in Kodak's output that would represent ... and who could blame them for saying ... "no thanks, we quit!"
What about all the smaller film manufacturers who aren't tied into the film industry though ... why should this effect them?
Kristopher
Established
Won't be long at this rate until everyone is using film and nobody is selling it.
And this will make your day
ferider
Mentor
I personally do think small manufacturers will remain to exist, Keith, and some of the big ones will continue small .... Just at some point it will get more expensive. How much, I don't know.
pakeha
Well-known
Might pay to consider that Kodak aint the only player at the table
looking through the eyeglass in reverse only serves to give a narrow veiw of the world , aye
regards
Craig
looking through the eyeglass in reverse only serves to give a narrow veiw of the world , aye
regards
Craig
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I guess post the movie industry going digital, which it obviously will eventally, the test will be to see just how much we're prepared to pay for our passion from the players that may be left.
To be honest if I had to pay walk in off the street prices for the types of films that I use mainly I'd be shooting a lot more digital but probably not having a lot of fun! Resources like RFF and a few other forums have been indespensable for me in finding out how to be a film shooter on a 'beer and beans' budget! Someone getting into shooting film and not being aware of the way to do it economically may struggle to maintain their passion when the bottom line becomes obvious.
Mind you ... tobacco just took a twenty five percent hike in this country and I don't see any of my friends quitting. I was standing at the tobacconist's counter at my local supermarket the other day and saw an elderly woman hand over $120.00 for a carton of cigarettes ... probably containing eight packs which would probably be a weeks suplly for the average smoker!
antiquark
Derek Ross
FWIW, my mom finally switched to digital after the quality at the local lab circled the drain for several years, while the price increased. One the the employees there told her that they were trying to get all their customers into digital.
Now if only someone made true "digital film." Like, an SD card with only enough capacity for 24 shots, which you drop off at the lab for them to print. Then my mom could handle the whole process herself, and not rely on my sister to do the uploading and printing.
Now if only someone made true "digital film." Like, an SD card with only enough capacity for 24 shots, which you drop off at the lab for them to print. Then my mom could handle the whole process herself, and not rely on my sister to do the uploading and printing.