Diffraction shows up when the aperture is physically less than 3mm or so, and starts to limit the performance of a lens. Most classic lenses peak at F8, newer ones peak wider-open than that.
So now- decide on that budget.
So now- decide on that budget.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
The collapsible FSU 50s--Industars 10, 22, and 50--are pretty good for their price, I think, but won't collapse full with the Bessa R. Still usable, though, just be careful with them. The other Industars--I 26, 50*, and 61--should also be fine on a Bessa. The Jupiter 50s-- J-3 and J-8 are potentially very good but the wider max aperture will mercilessly show any focus problems they may have. A correctly adjusted one is wonderful, I think. My main 50mm is a 1955 J-8.
The caveat with any FSU lens is that it might or might not focus correctly on a true Leica standard camera.
The J-12 will most often not work well with the Bessa. Either it will not mount fully or, as there is some variation, if it does mount OK, the rear element will block the meter on the Bessa. I like the J-12 and have a FED 4 camera so that I can use it.
That said, the easy choice, again I think, would be the Voigtlander Skopars. the 35 and 50 are really good and not too pricey.
Good hunting!
Rob
*there is a rigid I-50 as well as a collapsible.
PS: If you decide on FSU lenses, the important choice will be the seller. Find a good dealer who has a return policy.
The caveat with any FSU lens is that it might or might not focus correctly on a true Leica standard camera.
The J-12 will most often not work well with the Bessa. Either it will not mount fully or, as there is some variation, if it does mount OK, the rear element will block the meter on the Bessa. I like the J-12 and have a FED 4 camera so that I can use it.
That said, the easy choice, again I think, would be the Voigtlander Skopars. the 35 and 50 are really good and not too pricey.
Good hunting!
Rob
*there is a rigid I-50 as well as a collapsible.
PS: If you decide on FSU lenses, the important choice will be the seller. Find a good dealer who has a return policy.
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kknox
kknox
I shot this with a 1963 J-8 2.0 that I paid $43.00 for. These J-8 lens are a great value.
bwcolor
Mentor
I wasn't suggesting the Ikon as a starter camera. I think that the Bessa fills that slot. What I was saying was that when you get ready to move up a notch, you might want to also look at the Ikon. I have a few Leica rangefinders, including an M6TTL and I can't honestly tell you that I prefer the Leicas, but I do feel that the M6 is easier to hold steady in low light/slow shutter situations, but I really don't have any proof of this. I doubt that your photographs will improve by moving up to an Ikon, or Leica from the Bessa and any of these rangefinders have to be as quiet, or most likely, quieter than your Nikon.
I'd hold tough and get a good user Minolta CLE or M6 and a cheap Russian lens if you can't swing a good 40mm Minolta Rokkor or 35/2.5 VC Skopar. Or go meterless w a solid M2 user.
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
I'm with Frank here on looking for a Minolta CLE, mostly since they are generally half the cost of a M6 and smaller then any of the classic M's. Build is quite good too and tey have ore features then most M's.
http://www.cameraquest.com/cle.htm
http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/cle.htm
You can also look at LTM lenses and get a M-mount for em. Try looking at the Canon 50mm f1.8 or the f1.4 or maybe the Canon 35mm f1.8. These are all still pretty inexpensive and are great shooters.
David Hughes
David Hughes
OK I'll throw in my 2d worth for the I-61's and Jupiter-8. I've owned several and had no problems with them. The I-61's have click stops and don't rotate when focussing and the J-8's don't and do; respectively.
Either with Leica adapter and hood (or the cheap Chinese version) is a good lens for most people. That means handheld and not over 8x10's from experience. Throw in the cost of a complete overhaul and they are still good and cheap.
One day I'll run some slide film through the M2 and remember to test them out properly... From the state of my prints I'll guess they will pass that test too.
For the record I've owned Leica's lens with problems, one had serious money thrown at it and was only fit for scrap or display and one that went back with a minor complaint (dealt with FOC). One or two others seem OK but are seldom used but were 30's ones so no great surprise there.
BTW, to get into CRF's I'd pick a FED 2 body to start with.
Regards, David
Either with Leica adapter and hood (or the cheap Chinese version) is a good lens for most people. That means handheld and not over 8x10's from experience. Throw in the cost of a complete overhaul and they are still good and cheap.
One day I'll run some slide film through the M2 and remember to test them out properly... From the state of my prints I'll guess they will pass that test too.
For the record I've owned Leica's lens with problems, one had serious money thrown at it and was only fit for scrap or display and one that went back with a minor complaint (dealt with FOC). One or two others seem OK but are seldom used but were 30's ones so no great surprise there.
BTW, to get into CRF's I'd pick a FED 2 body to start with.
Regards, David
ferider
Mentor
I recommend against Russian lenses, since - unless hand-collimated by Brian - whatever copy you get will be very likely out of focus at close focus distance (in average about 10cm at 1m). For 35 and down that doesn't matter so much, for 50 and up, it does. Then again, the 35/2.8 doesn't fit on Bessas, for instance. And I'm not being a snob here: I have tried at least a handful of Russian lenses and they were all equally frustrating, except two very early copies from 1950 and 1951.
You are buying into a not-so-cheap camera system, so you might as well get a lens that - coming from SLRs - will surprise you with out-standing image quality. So, I second the Color Skopar 35/2.5, 40 Summicron/Rokkor, and Canon 50/1.8 mentioned previously.
A good Leica M2 can be had for a similar price as a Bessa R2[AM]. I would favor the M2 if I were you. It feels better (to me).
You could also get a Canon P (around US 200 or so) with a Color Skopar or Canon 50/1.8. LTM, but every bit as solidly built as a Leica.
Roland.
You are buying into a not-so-cheap camera system, so you might as well get a lens that - coming from SLRs - will surprise you with out-standing image quality. So, I second the Color Skopar 35/2.5, 40 Summicron/Rokkor, and Canon 50/1.8 mentioned previously.
A good Leica M2 can be had for a similar price as a Bessa R2[AM]. I would favor the M2 if I were you. It feels better (to me).
You could also get a Canon P (around US 200 or so) with a Color Skopar or Canon 50/1.8. LTM, but every bit as solidly built as a Leica.
Roland.
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Vincent.G
平和、愛、喜&#
Get a Leica because you will end up there one day. I suggest a M2 for its clean 35/50/90 framelines together with a Summicron 50f2 DR (dual range) because coming from the close-focusing ability of SLR lens, you will find the DR more "familiar" to start off with. The DR is an excellent lens.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Dear Vincent,
Dunno if you're right or not, because my first RF (and indeed my second high-quality camera after a Pentax SV in 1966) was a IIIa in 1969. But I will say this: from the point of view of usability and quality, I've yet to see anything beat an M-series (though Frances has a weakness for the ZI, apart from the meter). Ignoring price, recent Leicas win hands down for me. Add price into the equation and I'd probably prefer an R2 to an elderly M2.
Cheers,
R.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
There's a CL and C-V Nokton 40/1.4 in the Classifieds for $725. Nice setup, that.
tyrone.s
Well-known
I'd missed these threads - very informative . Thanks very much. Even though my Russian lenses *seem* OK, I'm more than willing to pull them apart
Frontman
Well-known
I'll say nothing bad against the Russian lenses I've used so far. Maybe I've been luckier than most, but I've never had a problem with an FSU lens (I wish I could say the same for the cameras). The old Industars will collapse just find on a Bessa if you use an 2mm o-ring or such to prevent the lens from bottoming out. The old FSU lenses are reasonably sharp and contrasty, with lots of that Leica "glow" which people seem to like.
Canon LTM lenses are very nice, but you also have to be careful when shopping for them, particularly from overseas sellers. Many of the old Canon lenses which I find here in Japan have fungus issues of some sort (due to the humidity here). On the other hand, the lens coatings and such are usually durable, and the lenses are capable of taking great pics.
Older Leica lenses can be had for relatively low cost, but many of the lenses (some would say most) have issues with scratched elements (or lens coatings) and separation of the glued elements. The last time I went out looking for a Leica 50mm lens, the majority of lenses I looked at (perhaps 8 out of 10) suffered from one problem or the other.
There are other LTM lenses made by Yashica, Minolta, and other brands. These don't come up that often, but sometimes you can get great deals on them because many people have no idea what they are.
Canon LTM lenses are very nice, but you also have to be careful when shopping for them, particularly from overseas sellers. Many of the old Canon lenses which I find here in Japan have fungus issues of some sort (due to the humidity here). On the other hand, the lens coatings and such are usually durable, and the lenses are capable of taking great pics.
Older Leica lenses can be had for relatively low cost, but many of the lenses (some would say most) have issues with scratched elements (or lens coatings) and separation of the glued elements. The last time I went out looking for a Leica 50mm lens, the majority of lenses I looked at (perhaps 8 out of 10) suffered from one problem or the other.
There are other LTM lenses made by Yashica, Minolta, and other brands. These don't come up that often, but sometimes you can get great deals on them because many people have no idea what they are.
haziz
Member
Leica DR Summicron
Leica DR Summicron
DR Summicron lenses in user condition and better can be had for $300 and less if missing the goggles. Get it. An absolutely superb lens.
Leica DR Summicron
DR Summicron lenses in user condition and better can be had for $300 and less if missing the goggles. Get it. An absolutely superb lens.
Vincent.G
平和、愛、喜&#
Hi Roger
To be honest, sometimes I ask myself why I bought my Leica Ms when I have Nikon SLRs.
ampguy
Mentor
most RF lenses
most RF lenses
get severely worse after 5.6, but it depends on the lens, and if you're shooting color (and which colors).
I'd look at a Jupiter 8, or 12 that is clean and focuses right.
most RF lenses
get severely worse after 5.6, but it depends on the lens, and if you're shooting color (and which colors).
I'd look at a Jupiter 8, or 12 that is clean and focuses right.
bevels
Member
After all your fantastic advice.. I've ended up purchasing a Mamiya 7.
I'll give it a couple of months and hopefully by then the Mrs will be ready for another blow to the coffers. I'll probably end up purchasing an OM1 kit to begin with while I'm looking for a good deal on an M6. This thread will definitely come in handy when making initial lens decision because I sure as hell won't be able to afford the 35mm summicron right away.
So thanks to all who chimed in, your advice is well appreciated.
Can't wait for the Mamiya to land on my doorstep!!
B.
I'll give it a couple of months and hopefully by then the Mrs will be ready for another blow to the coffers. I'll probably end up purchasing an OM1 kit to begin with while I'm looking for a good deal on an M6. This thread will definitely come in handy when making initial lens decision because I sure as hell won't be able to afford the 35mm summicron right away.
So thanks to all who chimed in, your advice is well appreciated.
Can't wait for the Mamiya to land on my doorstep!!
B.