Leica LTM Noobie question No. 2: Why so many bodies without lenses on ebay?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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David.Boettcher

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I have only recently started searching ebay for early Leica LTM cameras, but it appears that there are lots of II and III bodies for sale without lenses.

I thought that this might be because the vendors were hoping to get more by splitting the lens from the camera and selling the two separately, but searching for lenses alone doesn't seem to support that theory.

Am I wrong, or is there a shortage of lenses for these old cameras for some reason?

Regards - David
 
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Lots of people owning an M8 or M9 buy older lenses to use on those bodies.

I own three Leica bodies but 9 lenses... and am hardly an exception on this forum!
 
Ron (Netherlands) said:
I acquired quite some lenses buying the cameras with the lenses, and selling the cameras later on.....
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buzzardkid said:
Lots of people owning an M8 or M9 buy older lenses to use on those bodies.

I own three Leica bodies but 9 lenses... and am hardly an exception on this forum!
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Hi Ron and Johan,

Thanks for your replies, but these are not all 5cm lenses surely? I can understand that having extra lenses with shorter and longer focal lengths is useful, but I can't see a need for more than one, maybe two, 5cm lenses?

But the real significance of this is that lenses are harder to find than bodies, and that it would not be safe to buy a body and hope to later pick up a lens to fit it?

Regards - David
 
I would say that it is easier to rid oneself of a camera than a lens. Once you find a lens you like you keep it. A camera however outstays its welcome easier.
 
David.Boettcher said:
Hi Ron and Johan,

Thanks for your replies, but these are not all 5cm lenses surely? I can understand that having extra lenses with shorter and longer focal lengths is useful, but I can't see a need for more than one, maybe two, 5cm lenses?

But the real significance of this is that lenses are harder to find than bodies, and that it would not be safe to buy a body and hope to later pick up a lens to fit it?

Regards - David
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Hi David,

some people like to compare the characteristics of different lenses in the same focal length, and compare at length too! (pun)

There is a significant difference in (for instance) an early Elmar 50/3.5 and a later Summicron 50/2.0, or a modern Voigtlander Color-Skopar 50/2.5 when it comes to how it draws a scene. There are lots of different lenses to compare!

There used to be tests on different lenses (including a 50mm lens test) performed by fellow member Raid, which were very extensive. For a 50mm comparison test, look here.
 
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Hi David,

I am in the UK and can (along with many of my fellow RFF's) recommend some very good, honest dealers of LTM bodies and lens.

Have a look at this guy:

http://www.peterloy.com/index.php

He is, in my personal experience, a seller of 'reality' not fantasy. What he rates he means.

Good luck

Al
 
Another factor is that lenses now can be used on film cameras and digital cameras, and when someone switches to digital, lenses can stay but film cameras must go.
 
There's no simple answer. Business sellers split the camera and lens because they know they'll get a better price if they do. Collectors may have several camera bodies and a number of lenses and if they decide they want to part with a body to upgrade they will generally hang onto the lens to save themselves the trouble of finding a replacement.
The situation seems to be different with Leicaflexes as these are nearly always sold without a lens. In this case I believe it is simply greed because a good lens wil sell for as much as a camera body and lens together, because more people want the lenses than than the bodies and don;t want to pay for something they aren't going to use.
 
Thanks to everyone who has answered, I have learnt a huge amount from asking such a simple question, and avoided wasting money on a body without a lens.

There is a lot to learn about buying/collecting Leica LTM, and this thread has greatly added to my understanding on the availability of lenses, which is very valuable knowledge.

Thanks to you all for putting up with the simple questions of a beginner, and for sharing your knowledge so freely!

Regards - David
 
And, some of us when we've a few camera bodies and lenses start to match them up as though bought together when new. So a 1937 body with a 1936 or '37 lens would be kept and the 1939 lens sold. And so on. Then you start looking for a 1930's Leicameter and getting it restored and the real fun starts... It ends when you have the posh leather case Leica made for various outfits.

But it is also logical to have a bog standard Leica II with the Elmar and then want an Summar for the fun of it (they have a unique signature) or else a Summitar to get something faster and brilliant. It never ends.

BTW, you asked about FED and Elmar lenses elsewhere. The FED is a good copy but when screwed into the body the figures for very near distances (meaning 1,25 metres on the focussing scale) will be at about 10 o'clock on the FED and upside-down. On a Leica with an Elmar the 1 etc metre figures are the right way up from the front. And the infinity lock is lower at about 7 o'clock on a Leica. And some FED's have the proper Leica shutter guard.

Here's a picture:
914872409_pVy68-XL-1.jpg


Regards, David
 
That's a nice little Barnack trio, David.

I'm currently down to 2 Zorkies

(Plus the Cl and the Canons and the Bessas...)

But to the OP: You can tire of a body... Lenses are forever
 
Also the mechanics of the lenses rarely fail. It is the fungus or "cleaning marks" that do them in. And yeah... everyone and their grandma puts these lenses on dozens of other cameras that came later.

Plus half the lenses sold on III's were the ones that had glass so soft you can push your finger prints into them.
 
Field said:
Plus half the lenses sold on III's were the ones that had glass so soft you can push your finger prints into them.
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Can anything be done about that kind of damage? I guess not - so quite a few lenses must have been fatally damaged over the years because of careless handling/cleaning?

Regards - David
 
David.Boettcher said:
Can anything be done about that kind of damage? I guess not - so quite a few lenses must have been fatally damaged over the years because of careless handling/cleaning?

Regards - David
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Hi,

Well, yes, it can be done but beware.

There was quite a cottage industry in the 40's that would coat your lens for a fee and regrind the front (and other) elements. But not all of them knew what they were doing and there's some horrors about (I had one).

There's also a few about with everything just as it left the factory and others in the same condition that Leitz have coated properly and reset etc in the 40's and 50's.

Plus, it's possible to get them cleaned, reground and multi coated today at today's prices (beware!) and to a very high standard.

Like all Leica items there's a very wide range of stuff on offer at prices from the downright silly to the ridiculous.

I'll offer some advice: beware of Summars.

In your shoes, if you must have a 30's Leica then look for a model II (simple version without slow speeds to go wrong) and an Elmar. And study the websites about forgeries as though your life depended on them. (Your sanity will.)

Better still, look for a 1950's model IIc which are slightly better made, should have factory coated lenses and are fairly common at reasonable prices. With luck it will even have the right spool fitted and the right lens cap but don't rely on that. My model II in the picture above has the wrong lens cap with it.

Or you could buy a bog standard FED with their version of the Elmar on it and get it checked, repaired etc by Oleg. That way you'll have a decent coupled range-finder camera too but without the expense, prestige and problems of a Leica.

Whatever you decide you will probably ruin a film or two before you stop screaming at it; loading it can be a PITA and still not quite right but you won't realise until it's too late. Plus you'll have no problem finding instructions for it (focal press is where I'd start). And lastly, check the thing has a take up spool in very good condition and buy a pack of those self adhesive felt pads sold in furniture shops for the cassettes: you'll need a decent hole punch too, to modify them.

Whatever else you do, don't believe it's easy to repair them on the kitchen table. This is not a popular opinion, btw...

The learning curve with 30's Leicas is best described as an uphill and expensive struggle.

Have fun, we all do; there's nothing quite like standing next to someone at a festival or air show who has an all-singing-and-all-dancing digital C*n*n or N*k*n and taking out your old Leica, pulling out and twisting the lens and then waving the meter about. And then there's that lovely shutter sound.

Regards, David
 
newspaperguy said:
That's a nice little Barnack trio, David.

I'm currently down to 2 Zorkies

(Plus the Cl and the Canons and the Bessas...)

But to the OP: You can tire of a body... Lenses are forever
Click to expand...

Thanks, I think those three will be kept for ever and a day, plus the FED 2 and Jupiter-8 in its TOE variation.

Regards, David
 
And,

And,

Out of curiosity I looked here and found this:-

http://www.ffordes.com/product/11021011504781

I've bought second-hand digital stuff from ffordes and have not been disappointed. But, obviously, I know nothing about this body or lens but it should show you the sort of prices dealers ask and they can be phoned and questioned.

Regards, David
 
Unless someone else has mentioned it...crudely...

You get more on Fleaby by splitting them up and selling separately.

Michael
 
David.Boettcher said:
I thought that this might be because the vendors were hoping to get more by splitting the lens from the camera and selling the two separately, but searching for lenses alone doesn't seem to support that theory.
Click to expand...

Some might want to keep the lens, but don't want the body anymore.

You always get more when you sell items seperately. I may want the body, but not the lens and vise-versa.
 
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