DamenS
Well-known
I didn't propose "living in fear" nor did I propose "never standing up for things you believe are perfectly fair". I certainly don't endorse becoming a "slave".
What I said - and I believe quite clearly - is that every situation must be assessed on its merits and that a verbal de-escalation is a better policy than a blind "one size suits all" adherence to protecting one's "rights". You clearly disagree with this mindset. Good luck to you in any future street photography you wish to undertake.
DamenS
Well-known
Which clearly begs the question - on what particular point do you disagree with me ??
Also is that "not in a way that comprises your integrity" truly an unthinking unmaleable response as you suggest ? What if someone pulls a gun on you ? You value "integrity" as an absolute over staying alive. Interesting.
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peterm1
Mentor
I nearly got into a fight over a photo - and I was not even photographing what the antagonist thought I was.
I was visiting another city to see my mum. We were at an outdoor table of a cafe sharing some coffee and a chat when she got up to go inside to the loo. A distance of perhaps 10 meters.
I snapped a photo of her walking away. Less than a minute later some pumped up banana with an attitude came out of the coffee shop to demand that I explain why I was photographing him (like many cafes this one had a large plate glass window - but the inside was dim and it was impossible to see anyone in the cafe - which would have been obvious to him had he the brains to turn around and look.)
I was at the time sitting quietly drinking coffee and browsing a newspaper waiting for my mother's return. All the time he was getting quite agitated. I just looked up and told him I had no idea what he was talking about but I had just photographed my mother. I then turned my attention back to the paper and ignored him.
He stood above me for about 30 seconds huffing and puffing and glaring at me (I could see from the corner of my eye.) But eventually my lack of response meant he could do little but make an unprovoked attack on me in full view of witnesses or walk away. Fortunately he did the latter.
I still do not know who he was but rather fancy that he might have been some minor sporting celeb who thought I wanted his photo and was intruding on his (non existent in a public space) right to privacy.
Bloody peanut!
I was visiting another city to see my mum. We were at an outdoor table of a cafe sharing some coffee and a chat when she got up to go inside to the loo. A distance of perhaps 10 meters.
I snapped a photo of her walking away. Less than a minute later some pumped up banana with an attitude came out of the coffee shop to demand that I explain why I was photographing him (like many cafes this one had a large plate glass window - but the inside was dim and it was impossible to see anyone in the cafe - which would have been obvious to him had he the brains to turn around and look.)
I was at the time sitting quietly drinking coffee and browsing a newspaper waiting for my mother's return. All the time he was getting quite agitated. I just looked up and told him I had no idea what he was talking about but I had just photographed my mother. I then turned my attention back to the paper and ignored him.
He stood above me for about 30 seconds huffing and puffing and glaring at me (I could see from the corner of my eye.) But eventually my lack of response meant he could do little but make an unprovoked attack on me in full view of witnesses or walk away. Fortunately he did the latter.
I still do not know who he was but rather fancy that he might have been some minor sporting celeb who thought I wanted his photo and was intruding on his (non existent in a public space) right to privacy.
Bloody peanut!
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Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Good thing that you didn't get hurt too bad huntjump.
Sounds like they decided to jump you right from the point of taking the picture. If they'd been psyched/boozed up enough, no matter what you said would've prevented a fight...in my opinion.
Sounds like they decided to jump you right from the point of taking the picture. If they'd been psyched/boozed up enough, no matter what you said would've prevented a fight...in my opinion.
magicianhisoka
Well-known
Just glad that the OP was okay despite the ordeal and learned something from it. There's always a fine line between aggression and friendliness in high tension situations.
huntjump
Well-known
Some interesting discussion in here. I appreciate everyone's viewpoint.
I would agree with those of you who said to choose your battles wisely. I think standing up for my rights in this situation though, where it was unlikely that I would benefit at all from doing so, let alone promote the good of photography, was the wrong decision for me personally.I do however, think they might have still came after me simply for taking the photo under their threats and insults. But i'll never obviously know.
In terms of taking the photo in the first place, it seemed harmless to me to shoot a vehicle's tires. Of course, from the perspective of inside the hummer, it certainly could look like I'm shooting them. I didn't think that far in advance given it was late and i had a few to drink. lesson learned there.
The beauty of people to me lies in part to our diversity. While some hold their principles so high that they would risk their safety to defend it at any costs, I think it would be arrogant for me to tell that person what the "right thing" is to fight for, and what isn't worth it. It is a value judgment, and everyone's differs and we are free to disagree, but maybe not judge. I can provide my opinion from my perspective, my life experiences etc..
Hindsight is certainly 20/20, and I will be more cautious in the future but not afraid. I acknowledge the comment about putting my friends safety in jeopardy, and thought about it. Three of my friends i've known most my life, and they would fight to the death protecting me or eachother. I do not like to place them in danger on my own account, so I think my biggest regret was with their safety, not my own.
I am happy to see some discussion. Cheers
I would agree with those of you who said to choose your battles wisely. I think standing up for my rights in this situation though, where it was unlikely that I would benefit at all from doing so, let alone promote the good of photography, was the wrong decision for me personally.I do however, think they might have still came after me simply for taking the photo under their threats and insults. But i'll never obviously know.
In terms of taking the photo in the first place, it seemed harmless to me to shoot a vehicle's tires. Of course, from the perspective of inside the hummer, it certainly could look like I'm shooting them. I didn't think that far in advance given it was late and i had a few to drink. lesson learned there.
The beauty of people to me lies in part to our diversity. While some hold their principles so high that they would risk their safety to defend it at any costs, I think it would be arrogant for me to tell that person what the "right thing" is to fight for, and what isn't worth it. It is a value judgment, and everyone's differs and we are free to disagree, but maybe not judge. I can provide my opinion from my perspective, my life experiences etc..
Hindsight is certainly 20/20, and I will be more cautious in the future but not afraid. I acknowledge the comment about putting my friends safety in jeopardy, and thought about it. Three of my friends i've known most my life, and they would fight to the death protecting me or eachother. I do not like to place them in danger on my own account, so I think my biggest regret was with their safety, not my own.
I am happy to see some discussion. Cheers
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MichaelW
Established
Turtle
Mentor
The individuals who pursued and attacked a person who was no threat to them are at fault - end of story!
While I understand the view that he could have handled it much better, that in no way reduces the culpability of those who went on the attack. Lets get the victim-perpetrator relationship straight....
We all get called names, wound up etc but I don't go smacking people about and I certainly would not 'blame' some drunk fool for gobbing off at me if I then beat him up! I could always shout back or, better still, ignore the idiot. In this instance, verbal engagement would have been appropriate such as 'who are you and why are you taking my picture?'
While I understand the view that he could have handled it much better, that in no way reduces the culpability of those who went on the attack. Lets get the victim-perpetrator relationship straight....
We all get called names, wound up etc but I don't go smacking people about and I certainly would not 'blame' some drunk fool for gobbing off at me if I then beat him up! I could always shout back or, better still, ignore the idiot. In this instance, verbal engagement would have been appropriate such as 'who are you and why are you taking my picture?'
Gentlemen, let's cool the discorse a bit please. Have your discussion, even continue it in a spirited manner, but refrain from turning this into an augment. Thank you.
_mark__
Well-known
Haha withnail and I, great film!
I was a boxer then a doorman for a few years then worked close protection for 'stars' and their egos! I've been in a lot of these situations and what I learned is they rarely end well! You were lucky it didn't escalate into something really ugly.
I was a boxer then a doorman for a few years then worked close protection for 'stars' and their egos! I've been in a lot of these situations and what I learned is they rarely end well! You were lucky it didn't escalate into something really ugly.
DamenS
Well-known
Yes, I get the "spirit" of your post, but my point is that when a group of guys are screaming that you are a "F@g", telling them they "look cute" (as you suggested), would not be "confusing" to them - it would be downright aggravating !
Where did this come from ? It was the OP who stated people were screaming that he was a F#g:
"a group of guys who i could not see were yelling profanity, from "why the F is this guy taking photos of us" to "F this fag" (excuse my language) and everything in between."
uhoh7
Mentor
ray*j*gun
Mentor
Agree with Steve and ................Before you smear an entire country try using a larger sample than one experience drawn from the front of a bar in a big city at the "end of the night"
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Teuthida
-
" wow. sorry. Just thought your ride was really cool. Tell me about it. Is it yours? That thing is sooo cool!" They would have probably invited you in for a drink.
oftheherd
Mentor
Thank you sir. The OP has acknowledged his own culpability, slight though it was in my opinion. That he might have acted differently/better does not in any way justify what the people inside the Hummer did. If they weren't looking for an excuse to attack someone, they had way too short a fuse.
huntjump - I am glad it wasn't worse than it was. I think you and your friends exercised some restraint, since you all could have escalated this at any point you have described.
As to many of the replies, I am sort of amused by the tone of many of the replies. Purporting to show that huntjump should have been less than confrotational, but unintended or not, being sort of confrontational themselves. I don't mean to be confrontational myself, and to any who have replied, if I have misunderstood your choice of words, I apologize.
I am glad huntjump posted this thread, because we should all be able to learn from it. There are lessons we should think about for ourselves if we should get in the same or a similar situation. And we need to think about them ahead of time so that in a stressful situation, we can be better prepared to extracate ourselves with less or no problems. I know it has me thinking again. Thanks huntjump.
Field
Well-known
We all want to believe that we would act differently but even without alcohol any kind of intense interaction can result in adrenaline, or even just little time to think... very easy to skip a lot of critical thought. It would be no surprise if at least half or more of the people posting in here said the same thing as Adam; or maybe even something worse.
It helps to think ahead, to train a little, what your response may be, but as I said before, sometimes **** happens.
I just want you to know Adam, even if I think diffusing by not complementing them is good - outside of law -, I regret their association to the human race for running you down to assault you; for something truthful and not expelling a greater, more important, cause.
It helps to think ahead, to train a little, what your response may be, but as I said before, sometimes **** happens.
I just want you to know Adam, even if I think diffusing by not complementing them is good - outside of law -, I regret their association to the human race for running you down to assault you; for something truthful and not expelling a greater, more important, cause.
gb hill
Mentor
You should of said you are a photographer with TMZ & Harvey Levin is your lawyer!
bwcolor
Mentor
Based on all of the posts above, I gather that the important word to include when quieting the street idiots is the word, "DUDE".
I'm now enlightened.
I'm now enlightened.
ampguy
Mentor
so what's the moral of this story?
Only take photos of pimped rides: a) if you're 6" taller than the driver, and b) your hangin' with your black belt friends, and c) only slightly buzzed ??
Only take photos of pimped rides: a) if you're 6" taller than the driver, and b) your hangin' with your black belt friends, and c) only slightly buzzed ??