morback
Martin N. Hinze
Later this year I will be bumming around the Black Sea. The initial plan is to start from Istanbul and travel clockwise back to Istanbul: Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia, Abkhazia (?), Georgia, Turkey.
Did anyone here do that trip? Does anyone have anything to recommend along the way? I have been looking but could find no resources for this trip. I can't even find a map/guide (I'd have to take 7 maps & guides with me, no thanks!). I've even looked at the iPhone/iPad apps but didn't find anything there either.
Departure would be around September first, and hopefully be back within the month. My concerns so far are fatigue (8 different countries, 8 different border controls, 8 different local customs & transportation, 1 extra person for about 3 weeks on the road for 3000 km) and Abkhazia. I hear I can only enter Abkhazia from Georgia, and not Georgia from Abkhazia (sort of a Cyprus situation). Any first hand experiences?
I'd greatly appreciate any insight.
m.
Did anyone here do that trip? Does anyone have anything to recommend along the way? I have been looking but could find no resources for this trip. I can't even find a map/guide (I'd have to take 7 maps & guides with me, no thanks!). I've even looked at the iPhone/iPad apps but didn't find anything there either.
Departure would be around September first, and hopefully be back within the month. My concerns so far are fatigue (8 different countries, 8 different border controls, 8 different local customs & transportation, 1 extra person for about 3 weeks on the road for 3000 km) and Abkhazia. I hear I can only enter Abkhazia from Georgia, and not Georgia from Abkhazia (sort of a Cyprus situation). Any first hand experiences?
I'd greatly appreciate any insight.
m.
Phantomas
Well-known
Re Abkhazia - I would inform myself very well before going. It's not the matter from where you enter, rather you might have issues with Georgian authorities when they see you've been there. In any case you need a special permission (from Georgian authorities) to enter Abkhazia. You can also enter from Russia (freely I think) but I can't say what the implications will be if you want to travel to Georgia afterwards.
Other than that looks like a nice itinerary. From all the countries on your list only Abkhazia and Moldova need slightly extra caution. The rest are piece of cake. And rest assured you will see some beautiful places when traveling by land.
Other than that looks like a nice itinerary. From all the countries on your list only Abkhazia and Moldova need slightly extra caution. The rest are piece of cake. And rest assured you will see some beautiful places when traveling by land.
The Expanding Man
Member
20 years ago I spent a few months in Turkey and went along the black sea coast as far as the Turkish / Georgian border.
I remember having a good time in the town of Trabzon - back then it had a good vibe.
ymmv.
I remember having a good time in the town of Trabzon - back then it had a good vibe.
ymmv.
nimcod
Established
Ive Done part of the trip, Bulgaria ,Turkey, Georgia ...but then headed off through Azerbaijan.
All in all it was an amazing part of a longer trip, Georgia was incredibly special amazing scenery, beyond wonderful people, amazing watermelons...
The police tend to be very strict about bribery due to past corruption, so we had real trouble finding a way to thank a kind act as they wouldn't accept any gift at all, obviously this wont apply for all of the police, but everyone we met was the same in this way so dont worry if they go beyond the first few normal polite "i couldn't possible take this"
The border crossing we used from turkey to Georgia however had its fair few groups of miscreants, they try to act as "helpers" to get your passport stamped etc and then right at the end charge a "fee" for basically doing nothing except walk to a booth and back, then hold onto your passport, so just ignore them and bumble about yourself and only ever hand papers to someone in uniform, better yet if you are travelling by car, copy your V5 and other vehicle documents to hand over instead. also just to mention I at this point did have a full russian visa in my passport and found it was not a problem at all.
We never go to the abkhazia region so im afraid i cant help there, we happened to end up heading to Gori when the Russians started shelling then invading south ossetia etc, and promptly we got turned back by the Georgian army.
The only other pain we had was in the turkey crossing as they need a random "£10" for the visa charge which they fully seemed to want only in cash GBP ? maybe it was the british passports i dont know but defiantly have a 10 euro or 10 quid bill on your person for that crossing.
Russia we only entered in much later in the trip, near kazakhstan/mongolia by far they had the strictest border checks, stripping our car down completely, but that might of been the location rather than a standard car check.
random other things: prescription meds, bring a prescription, try and find the name of your condition and get it written in cyrillic, makes it a lot easier to explain why you are carrying a large amount (had this problem pop up in lots of border checks)
We did all of ours with no map, only thing i recall was a slight problem with georgia as not all road signs are in english so that can be a tad interesting.
I cant really state any specific places to visit, to me anyway that whole area was just mind blowingly different from anywhere id been and so unexpected and different from my initial perceptions that i found the whole area interesting and wonderful.
Sorry if the above seems negative,borders really where the only annoying and "bad" point of our trip across that region, but it did just happened we had some silly border crossing experiences, which seemed a lot of hassle at the time but effectively where relatively easy.
All in all it was an amazing part of a longer trip, Georgia was incredibly special amazing scenery, beyond wonderful people, amazing watermelons...
The police tend to be very strict about bribery due to past corruption, so we had real trouble finding a way to thank a kind act as they wouldn't accept any gift at all, obviously this wont apply for all of the police, but everyone we met was the same in this way so dont worry if they go beyond the first few normal polite "i couldn't possible take this"
The border crossing we used from turkey to Georgia however had its fair few groups of miscreants, they try to act as "helpers" to get your passport stamped etc and then right at the end charge a "fee" for basically doing nothing except walk to a booth and back, then hold onto your passport, so just ignore them and bumble about yourself and only ever hand papers to someone in uniform, better yet if you are travelling by car, copy your V5 and other vehicle documents to hand over instead. also just to mention I at this point did have a full russian visa in my passport and found it was not a problem at all.
We never go to the abkhazia region so im afraid i cant help there, we happened to end up heading to Gori when the Russians started shelling then invading south ossetia etc, and promptly we got turned back by the Georgian army.
The only other pain we had was in the turkey crossing as they need a random "£10" for the visa charge which they fully seemed to want only in cash GBP ? maybe it was the british passports i dont know but defiantly have a 10 euro or 10 quid bill on your person for that crossing.
Russia we only entered in much later in the trip, near kazakhstan/mongolia by far they had the strictest border checks, stripping our car down completely, but that might of been the location rather than a standard car check.
random other things: prescription meds, bring a prescription, try and find the name of your condition and get it written in cyrillic, makes it a lot easier to explain why you are carrying a large amount (had this problem pop up in lots of border checks)
We did all of ours with no map, only thing i recall was a slight problem with georgia as not all road signs are in english so that can be a tad interesting.
I cant really state any specific places to visit, to me anyway that whole area was just mind blowingly different from anywhere id been and so unexpected and different from my initial perceptions that i found the whole area interesting and wonderful.
Sorry if the above seems negative,borders really where the only annoying and "bad" point of our trip across that region, but it did just happened we had some silly border crossing experiences, which seemed a lot of hassle at the time but effectively where relatively easy.
semordnilap
Well-known
Sounds like a phenomenal trip...! I have no experience in the region but I will recommend an iOS app called citymaps2go. I've used it traveling and basically you can load maps from their library for use offline when you don't have data access, and build your map that way. There's another program, not as good but maybe more flexible, where you can also load maps for offline viewing. You need to 'build' the maps with a free software tool on your computer, but you can create them from various online sources so you can pick the best sources for your region.
Anyway I wouldn't obviously rely only on electronic maps, but it could be a big help with gps, etc.
Good luck with a great sounding trip!
Anyway I wouldn't obviously rely only on electronic maps, but it could be a big help with gps, etc.
Good luck with a great sounding trip!
Mablo
Well-known
I think the border between Abkhazia and Georgia is more or less closed, at least for tourists I think. If you decide to continue from Georgia to Armenia (train is more comfortable than a 'marsrutka' bus) at the border you must get a visa and you need to name a hotel where you are supposed to stay in Yerevan.
Moldova (Chisinau) can be entered easily from Bucharest by train. The train ride is mountainous and very scenic. Note also that between Moldova and Ukraine lies a small semi-independent region of Transnistria. You should perhaps avoid that direction when travelling to Ukraine (I've heard of some difficulties for tourists at the Ukrainian border). In Ukraine my favorite town is Odessa but definitely the Crimean region is recommended and also Kiev is very beautiful.
Moldova (Chisinau) can be entered easily from Bucharest by train. The train ride is mountainous and very scenic. Note also that between Moldova and Ukraine lies a small semi-independent region of Transnistria. You should perhaps avoid that direction when travelling to Ukraine (I've heard of some difficulties for tourists at the Ukrainian border). In Ukraine my favorite town is Odessa but definitely the Crimean region is recommended and also Kiev is very beautiful.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
Bulgaria and Romania are easily traveled. Moldova is fine except for the Transnistrian region which has seceded from Moldova proper and where taking pictures can be a serious problem. Expect troubles with paperwork and 'visas' at the self-declared Transnistrian 'border'. Just go around it traveling by bus from Chisinau to Odessa. I'd recommend both Chisinau and Odessa as towns to spend some time taking pictures...very laid back and friendly. Abkhazia is a no no in every possible way.
morback
Martin N. Hinze
Thanks for the input so far.
Abkhazia crossed off (for now).
Moldova with caution.
Hopefully we'll be able to enter Georgia at Verkhniy Lars and enjoy a bit of that "Military Highway" scenery. If not I can leave that part for the Georgia, Armenia & Azerbaijan project, and take the boat instead.
Maybe this would be a good opportunity to try out the railroad system? Because of the Iran experiences I have sort of assumed bus/minibus travel.
How is the Russian coast part of the trip? Worth it? I was tempted to leave it out just because of the VISA hassle, but my +1 insists for the sake of completion.
Abkhazia crossed off (for now).
Moldova with caution.
Hopefully we'll be able to enter Georgia at Verkhniy Lars and enjoy a bit of that "Military Highway" scenery. If not I can leave that part for the Georgia, Armenia & Azerbaijan project, and take the boat instead.
Maybe this would be a good opportunity to try out the railroad system? Because of the Iran experiences I have sort of assumed bus/minibus travel.
How is the Russian coast part of the trip? Worth it? I was tempted to leave it out just because of the VISA hassle, but my +1 insists for the sake of completion.
Phantomas
Well-known
I HIGHLY recommend traveling across Georgia from East to West or vise versa. Don't go through the coastal part only. The difference in scenery across Georgia is something to see. You'll be surprised by transformation from highly mountainous and forested central Georgia with somewhat mildly subtropical coastal region (Adjaria, Batumi, close to Turkey crossing). Photographically you'll see interesting things rurally as well as in the city, and people are friendly and easy to make contact with, even with language barriers. You can lodge in people's houses in rural areas (for some fee), but they'll feed you and get you wasted with wine and toasts.
It's not a big country, so can be easily accomplished within a few days. Cross from Russia (wherever crossing is these days, except Abkhazia and S. Ossetia) take the military highway and take in the Caucasus, down to Tbilisi and make your way from there West to Batumi, train or busses or "marchrutka" (as in turkish dolmush), cross to Turkey (Trabzon). But make sure to hang out in places en route, spend some nights.
If you want to avoid Russian visa hustle enter from Ukraine/Black sea, head east to Tbilisi, Caucasus ares like Tusheti or Racha optional detour, then back west to Batumi.
There are quite some alternatives but regions like Abkhazia/Ossetia/Transdniestria f*ckup the vibe a little bit. Open up the borders.
Phantomas
Well-known
By the way, for the Bulgaria/Romania/Moldova/Ukraine/Russia part of your trip, check out this work by Jens Olof Lasthein (go to Work and check out the three "White Sea Black Sea" projects). I know the region somewhat and this guy is putting it down on film perfectly.