jultou
Established
I did purchased recently a couple of B+W coloured filter for bw photography. I have used the M6 meter as normal as it is TTL.
The results using a Red Orange (041) B+W filter were great and exposure perfect.
But with the Red Dark filter (091) all the pictures taken were so underexposed that it was not usable. It was off I would say at least 2-3 stops.
So my question is does anyones had similar issues? Is the M6 meter can handle coloured filters?
The results using a Red Orange (041) B+W filter were great and exposure perfect.
But with the Red Dark filter (091) all the pictures taken were so underexposed that it was not usable. It was off I would say at least 2-3 stops.
So my question is does anyones had similar issues? Is the M6 meter can handle coloured filters?
RichardB
Well-known
Before the adevent of TTL metering, the colored filters for B&W uasge csme with instruction sheets listing the exposure comprnsation required.
Find thst information and use the compenation setting on the M6 to adjust.-Dick
Find thst information and use the compenation setting on the M6 to adjust.-Dick
t6un
Established
Sumanto
Newbie
Hi Julien,
What I would like to suggest is try metering the blue objects and compensate accordingly (normally, the easiest blues are the sky, which normally being brighter than the general scene).
What I would like to suggest is try metering the blue objects and compensate accordingly (normally, the easiest blues are the sky, which normally being brighter than the general scene).
Pete B
Well-known
furcafe
Mentor
Exactly, the fact that the meter is TTL doesn't change the fact that the meter (silicon diode?) doesn't have the same sensitivity to different colors as film. You can easily check this by taking meter readings with & without the filter attached & then compare them with the (non-meter) compensation factor listed on the filter/instructions.
ray*j*gun
Mentor
I have found that my Nikkormat cannot cope with dark red filters either. Use a manual compensation after metering WITHOUT the filter.
kiemchacsu
Well-known
jultou said:
Yes you are right, when i meter with my m6 and red filter, i adjust the iso ring 2 stops lower than metering without red filter.
jultou
Established
Thank you all for your answers. I will do some testing the next time I use the red filter.
Remove the filter to meter and put it back to take the picture would not be convenient apart for still objects.
Hopefully I will be able to use a simple solution like meter the sky and compensate or just changing the iso setting by 2 stops.
Remove the filter to meter and put it back to take the picture would not be convenient apart for still objects.
Hopefully I will be able to use a simple solution like meter the sky and compensate or just changing the iso setting by 2 stops.
Peter_S
Peter_S
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the sensibility of the M6 meter is off for orange...That is why I meter with my external lightmeter when using orange filters, or go for dark yellow (thats one thing I miss about the Contax G2, that worked wonderfully with red filters!)
furcafe
Mentor
I've found the G2's meter (same for the similar Hexar RF) still needs to be compensated by + 1 & 1/3 stops using a B+W 090 red filter (1 stop for 022 yellow).
jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
....you answered yourself in the question. If it's off 2-3 stops, increase it 2.5 stops. That's what I do on my M6TTL with a red filter. Meter and compensate two stops. All red filters are different though so you have to find what works for yours.
RichardB
Well-known
Apoarently this IS Rocket Science.
Colored filters have been used formost if the history of 35mm B&W photography exactly because the film is not sensitive equally to the entire spectral range. .the factors for compensation are well known, published ans shoukd be easily retreavable in todays computer age. You can easily do the retreave yourself.
The compensation factirs shoukd then be used as i originally Posted. You don't need to without the filter. I can't understand how you can do 35mm photography that way unless you shoot absolutelt static scenes?
Anyway good 20th century book on B&W technology, filters and exposure woukd be a goodcresource fior anyone planning using colored filters todayvwith B& W film. Me I just shoot TMax and be done with it. as its not worth the effort to use filters even thoughbI have them including the leica M Polorization set. I would akso venture to say thst modern digitsl post processing may be blevto achieve the effect you want?-Dick
Colored filters have been used formost if the history of 35mm B&W photography exactly because the film is not sensitive equally to the entire spectral range. .the factors for compensation are well known, published ans shoukd be easily retreavable in todays computer age. You can easily do the retreave yourself.
The compensation factirs shoukd then be used as i originally Posted. You don't need to without the filter. I can't understand how you can do 35mm photography that way unless you shoot absolutelt static scenes?
Anyway good 20th century book on B&W technology, filters and exposure woukd be a goodcresource fior anyone planning using colored filters todayvwith B& W film. Me I just shoot TMax and be done with it. as its not worth the effort to use filters even thoughbI have them including the leica M Polorization set. I would akso venture to say thst modern digitsl post processing may be blevto achieve the effect you want?-Dick
ray*j*gun
Mentor
What i do (and meant in my post), is to meter hand held then adjust the settings for the filter factor. I use a small VC meter in the accessory shoe to accomplish this.
jibanes
Member
I often use a Gossen digisix with my film leica; and a sekonic for studio work or long exposures. The digisix is a fantastic meter, it looks cheap, but trust me, it's hard to find a better pocket filter.
ssmc
Well-known
The M6TTL manual makes specific mention of dark red filters so I imagine the issue is the same as for the original M6 - a combination of the sensitivity of the SPD in the meter and the spectral response of the film itself.
What I noticed when I started shooting B&W again (on an old SLR) was that was that the light loss indicated by the camera's meter was, in most cases except for the X1 (green), nowhere near the manufacturer's suggested filter factor. So, I metered a scene with and without each filter and noted the exposure difference indicated by the camer's meter. Then I worked out how much that was off compared to the quoted filter factor, and converted to ISO stops for compensation. So say for example I measured the 040 to be worth 1 stop on the TTL meter, but B+W say it's filter factor is 4 (2 stops). That means that for the 040 filter (on that camera) I would shoot the film 1 stop slower to make up the difference. This method has worked great for me with both my old Minolta SLRs and the M6TTL. With extreme filters you need to look at the film response too.
FWIW, B+W quote a filter factor of 8 (3 stops) for the 091.
Hope this helps,
Scott
What I noticed when I started shooting B&W again (on an old SLR) was that was that the light loss indicated by the camera's meter was, in most cases except for the X1 (green), nowhere near the manufacturer's suggested filter factor. So, I metered a scene with and without each filter and noted the exposure difference indicated by the camer's meter. Then I worked out how much that was off compared to the quoted filter factor, and converted to ISO stops for compensation. So say for example I measured the 040 to be worth 1 stop on the TTL meter, but B+W say it's filter factor is 4 (2 stops). That means that for the 040 filter (on that camera) I would shoot the film 1 stop slower to make up the difference. This method has worked great for me with both my old Minolta SLRs and the M6TTL. With extreme filters you need to look at the film response too.
FWIW, B+W quote a filter factor of 8 (3 stops) for the 091.
Hope this helps,
Scott
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RichardB
Well-known
I can not see any fault in your method as an approximation but to be rigerous one would perform the 'calibration' for each film/TTL meter combination which requires shootingvactual scenes, film developmentband , density readings to determine compensation, since the filter factors were developed decades ago, I have to assume that thuer has bee no modern data evaluation with TTL meters of today, and indeed with raoid changes in technology, not warrented. So short of actual 'calibration', your method should suffice.
Removing and replacing filters, using a hand held meter, are archaic methods that negate the speed of use ifva Leica M to capture the moment.
Has anyone invetigated digital post processing?-Dick
Removing and replacing filters, using a hand held meter, are archaic methods that negate the speed of use ifva Leica M to capture the moment.
Has anyone invetigated digital post processing?-Dick
ssmc
Well-known
I probably should have been more explicit in my description - once I did the initial scene metering tests (I used 3 different ones to get an "average" difference but they were all within 1/3-stop of each other so outside the resolution of the camera's meter to display), I wrote down the ISO compensations for each filter and put them in the film-holder on the camera back with the SLRs; with the M6TTL I put it in the transparent vinyl pocket in the camera case. I don't meter each shot with and without a filter - that woud drive me nuts! 
The only significant digital PP I've done with film images involves color - specifically, removing color casts that occasionally seem to vary unpredictably (maybe it's the scanner?) and more fundamentally, getting rid of CA. The much-reviled Capture NX2 does an awesome one-click job of this - both red-cyan and blue-yellow fringes are a thing of the past, and the images get sharper to boot! I haven't yet tried the same thing with Lr4 though that works miracles with RAW files, also without fiddling with sliders.
My B&W scans rarely need much except the occasional spotting to remove dust specks, probably thanks to the great exposure latitude of monochrome emulsions. I don't know how you could simulate the effect of a contrast filter on a B&W image unless you had color data to begin with. Silver Efex Pro does a good job converting color to B&W, adding grain, etc., but when you make a side-by-side comparison with a half-decent silver-halide scan the difference is (sadly) obvious.
Regards,
Scott
The only significant digital PP I've done with film images involves color - specifically, removing color casts that occasionally seem to vary unpredictably (maybe it's the scanner?) and more fundamentally, getting rid of CA. The much-reviled Capture NX2 does an awesome one-click job of this - both red-cyan and blue-yellow fringes are a thing of the past, and the images get sharper to boot! I haven't yet tried the same thing with Lr4 though that works miracles with RAW files, also without fiddling with sliders.
My B&W scans rarely need much except the occasional spotting to remove dust specks, probably thanks to the great exposure latitude of monochrome emulsions. I don't know how you could simulate the effect of a contrast filter on a B&W image unless you had color data to begin with. Silver Efex Pro does a good job converting color to B&W, adding grain, etc., but when you make a side-by-side comparison with a half-decent silver-halide scan the difference is (sadly) obvious.
Regards,
Scott
Steve_F
Well-known
My Nikon FM3A manual (official Nikon one that came with camera) says that TTL is fine with all filters EXCEPT Red filters. It states if using a Red filter +1 exp. compensation should be added.
On manual cameras just open it up a further stop than meter suggests then.
Hope this helps.
Steve.
On manual cameras just open it up a further stop than meter suggests then.
Hope this helps.
Steve.
Steve_F
Well-known
I like the last sentence
But I for one listen to people's experience, so thanks.
Steve.
But I for one listen to people's experience, so thanks.
Steve.