BJP / Photokina 2012: 'Leica will never release an affordable M camera'

hipsterdufus said:
That's fine. It's kind of nice of them to remove anyone's hopes that they're ever going to release an affordable camera.
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The word "affordable M camera" was placed in the headline only by the magazine editor and copied 1:1 here by jsrockit. The actual interview says they won't make a "below-£1000 compact system camera".

And if you were hoping for a below-£1000 compact system camera from Leica, that was seriously unrealistic anyway.
 
I agree with Leica.

imagine if Leica actually did make a 1.5k USD camera, what lenses would you buy? I doubt a person would be buying new Leica lenses that cost more than their camera. They would either be bringing their used M lenses or ZM / CV lenses and Leica doesn't make any money.

I know it's elitist but it's sort of like what Ferrari or Patek does; if you can't afford one sorry, look somewhere else. we make what we make and it costs what it costs.

I can't afford a digital M but rather than get butthurt about it I would rather shoot my Canon if I have a need for digital images.
 
Leica survived

Leica survived

One side to see it from is, Leica is the only surviving german camera maker that is still existent. Voiglander, Rollei and other sold their name after bankrupt. Zeiss saved their name with other products and produces at Cosina.

All producers have to survive. Would the "recent" RF cameras (incl. ZI, Hexar, Fuji x1) exist if Leica had died in the 1980s?

I am quite happy they made it. I do not think any other than the "luxury price" strategy would have been successful.
 
I think Leica should come to my house, give me a full body massage, say nice things, and leave me with an MP, an M9 monochrom, and a small basket of Summiluxes (arranged nicely with a nice napkin, like scones). When they're done, they should hold the door open for Nikon, who should be waiting outside. I don't know what's the matter with these companies.
 
Adanac,

I have that camera already, albeit it's an APS-C sensor. It's the Ricoh GXR fitted with A12 Camera Mount: a live view only camera designed and optimized for M-bayonet RF lenses. It costs about $1300 sans lens and performs beautifully, is about the size of a Leica CL.

But it's not a rangefinder and it doesn't have a full frame format. To make it a full frame format will require a new optimized sensor, shutter, faster data bus, larger buffer, etc. and I'd want an upgraded EVF as well. I estimate that camera would cost $3000 with today's technology if produced in sufficient quantity.

The M9, M-E, and new M price premium is almost entirely attributable to the cost of manufacturing the rangefinder. An EVF saves a fortune off the top.
 
I don't know why people keep comparing digital Leica with Sony RX-1.
WHY?

Since when the RX-1 become digital rangefinder camera?
 
MartinP said:
In discussion, we will see something like 'M (2012 model)' - or perhaps the internal model-code will be used, 'M - model 240'. This is why people have likened the change to that made by Apple with their product-naming conventions a while ago (I should say that I own no Apple products, or digital Leicas, and nor am I likely to do so.)
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Just food for thought - the Porsche 911 has been around since 1964, and the owners (and fans) seem to have no problem referring to the various car generations by their factory codes - for example 993, 996, 997 and so on............
 
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Were it a big surprise? Do people really expect luxury car makers to churn out economy model to compete in $20000 segment? Why they would need this when there are enough customers happily preordering their over-the-sky (for $20000-range buyers, of course) priced models? Anyone, just give a hint why this would happen, if ever?

Life have never been so good as now. Want great camera? Just prepare to choose from! Can't afford digital M? There are LOTS of other choices, including film RF with a box of film which will cost a small fraction of dM body and will be enough to cure yourself from RF bug. Uh, you are real RF shooter and will newer ever give up, and still want to use digital RF? Or you one from those who just adore gears? If one is serious he knows what he needs and can back his needs. Say, I can't buy digital M body just because I don't have real use for it. This means, I do not want it enough to consider it worth owning. If I want occasional RF experience I can burn enough film to feel it's enough. If life will force me to use digital only, I'm pretty sure I'll be set without selling kidney because there are too many great cameras now.

Boys, stop daydreaming and choose life. Dreaming is good, just reject fantasies about sex with a neighbour's wife, free gas, and luxury goods for cheap. You know, luxury goods cost nothing only when catasprophes and war occur, but this isn't what you really want.
 
Umm.. Leica has been producing Summarit lenses since 2007...:rolleyes: That group of lenses will cost you less than about 6000$...
anselwannab said:
Yes, but here's the problem. It takes $17,000 to get what I would call a 'basic' Leica set-up. $7000 for the 'M' and $10,000 for a 28mm, 50mm and a 90mm lens. That's a lot of fricking money. The main issue I see is that you limit yourself because the barrier to entry is so high- basicaly $10k for the first picture. I know that Leica does OK but I think the issue is if they had a base line for people to enter on that lowered the barrier to entry would they do better.

I think the biggest issue is that their camera models are so basic now, there is no real way to strip cost out of them. While they have 'tiered' their lens offerings. They seem not to have been able to make a Summarit line of bodies that would parrallel their development of the Summarit lenses, which seem to run about 1/3-1/2 the price of the alternatives.

Maybe 1000BP/$1600 camera is really too much to ask for from Leica, I think that a $2500-$3000 CL isn't too much of a stretch. It would help to get people into M camera and systems. I don't see it happening soon, but as technical progress is made, I would entertain a M9 equivelent in a few years hitting that price point. In five years, who knows what whiz bang stuff will be in the top of the line Ms.
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Godfrey said:
I have that camera already, albeit it's an APS-C sensor. It's the Ricoh GXR fitted with A12 Camera Mount: a live view only camera designed and optimized for M-bayonet RF lenses. It costs about $1300 sans lens and performs beautifully, is about the size of a Leica CL.
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The GXR / Mount A12 is what I shoot almost exclusively.

The GXR isn't perfect but it handles well and performs beautifully as you say. I don't care that it isn't a rangefinder - the focusing and framing method wasn't central to my interest in RF cameras and lenses in the first place; the compactness of RF cameras, overall simplicity, and particularly the lenses, is what drew me to shooting film RF before I took a long detour shooting nothing but medium format film.

Having moved away from medium format and film simultaneously, what captures my attention is high IQ in small, portable, packages. The GXR almost gets me to where I want to be, but I'd like to use my lens complement on a full frame camera and get their originally intended perspective and other attributes back.

Maybe Ricoh won't go ever take the GXR to the next, logical, step. If not, that'd be a shame. If they don't go there I doubt anyone else will.

Back to the central point of this thread - Leica states they won't make a compact electronic M camera; at this point I still believe there's a good chance another will and that company is Ricoh. Call it $2,000 - $3,000, somewhere in there is the right number for them.

I have to believe that a full frame M camera selling for barely more than a fixed lens APS-C Leica X2 would be of great interest to M lens users. Maybe not of interest to all M lens owners, but of interest to more than enough... and I'm one. Where is the pre-order link?
 
anselwannab said:
Maybe 1000BP/$1600 camera is really too much to ask for from Leica, I think that a $2500-$3000 CL isn't too much of a stretch. It would help to get people into M camera and systems.
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Leica seems to thrive on exclusivity. Letting everybody enjoy a Leica M would not allow Leica to remain a luxury company. As stated in the article, they cannot compete in the price wars at the low end.
 
There won't be a cheap Leica. Never thought there would be. Volume sales and the possibility of massive expansion into a new market with such a product may not interest Leica AG. It is not necessarily the European way with a company to get bigger for bigger's sake. Making what they want to make and getting more market for that is what they're doing. I don't know the financial details, but considering what sort of DSLRs people are trying to put Leica lenses on, I would be surprised if looking back the Summarits were a necessary step for Leica after all. They have stuck to their core business, with, admittedly, the regular Hermes/Paul Smith diversions. The M8, M9, MM and M and ME. All winners by the look of it.
 
jsrockit said:
Which is still A LOT of money to most people. :rolleyes:
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For most people out there the idea of spending $1000 or even $500 for a single lens is a lot of money :)

For me spending over say $1200 or for a lens is a bit of stretch which is why I'll be getting used lens through KEH when I order the M-E during the later part of Spring 2013.
Figure either a 28 F2.8 ELMARIT+ 50mm 50 F2 SUMMICRON
or 35mm and 50mm Summicron will more then meet my needs and fit into my budget.
 
wollivp said:
I don't know why people keep comparing digital Leica with Sony RX-1.
WHY?

Since when the RX-1 become digital rangefinder camera?
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I think it's more about it being a small digital camera with a high quality lens that isn't shaped like a DSLR. It's not a rangefinder, but some people aren't into Leicas because of the mechanical rangefinder, but because of the ergonomics and no nonsense /classic features.

I'm not interested, but can see how someone would be.
 
Adanac said:
The GXR / Mount A12 is what I shoot almost exclusively.

The GXR isn't perfect but it handles well and performs beautifully as you say. I don't care that it isn't a rangefinder - the focusing and framing method wasn't central to my interest in RF cameras and lenses in the first place; the compactness of RF cameras, overall simplicity, and particularly the lenses, is what drew me to shooting film RF before I took a long detour shooting nothing but medium format film.

Having moved away from medium format and film simultaneously, what captures my attention is high IQ in small, portable, packages. The GXR almost gets me to where I want to be, but I'd like to use my lens complement on a full frame camera and get their originally intended perspective and other attributes back.

Maybe Ricoh won't go ever take the GXR to the next, logical, step. If not, that'd be a shame. If they don't go there I doubt anyone else will.

Back to the central point of this thread - Leica states they won't make a compact electronic M camera; at this point I still believe there's a good chance another will and that company is Ricoh. Call it $2,000 - $3,000, somewhere in there is the right number for them.

I have to believe that a full frame M camera selling for barely more than a fixed lens APS-C Leica X2 would be of great interest to M lens users. Maybe not of interest to all M lens owners, but of interest to more than enough... and I'm one. Where is the pre-order link?
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The GXR (and the X2) handle so well and produce such fine results ... What do you think you'll get out of having a FF version of the same camera?

I've said several times that I'd love the "CL Digital", my interest in in an actual rangefinder that's compact, like the CL. I bought the M not because it was full frame but because it was a rangefinder camera like my CL and M4-2. I like the way such cameras work.

If Leica made an APS-C format CL (or interchangeable lens X2 with a rangefinder), I'd be happy too. I've suggested as much a couple of times. Since they seem to feel that this isn't their job, ok: I'll get the M.
 
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