Getting into rangefinders

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macandal

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Hello ladies and gentlemen. This is my first post. I want to get into RFs. My experience is with 35mm (Canon EOS3) and LF (Sinar F2) cameras. I like to do portraits and street photography/documentary style stuff. So what would you recommend that I get? I really don't know what these cameras cost. I know Leicas tend to be expensive. I also know they're not the only ones that make RFs, but they are the most popular. So, let's use three categories to base the recommendations.
  • Low: something inexpensive to experiment and see if I like the format (under $100).
  • Medium: now that I am interested, let's try something better (around $100-$200).
  • High: I'm hooked (have at it ...)!
Whatever recommendation, for any category, should be a good, durable camera. A good bang for the buck, so to speak.

My only requirements are that it has interchangeable lenses capabilities and that I am able to use all (or as many as possible in a RF) manual functions.

Thanks. I look forward to read your recommendations.
 
You can get a Canonet ql17 or konica s2 or olympus XA for pretty cheap just to tool around with.

Personally, I don't like Leicas. If I want a portable camera, I'll choose an Olympus Stylus Epic or Contax T2. If I want something sharp, I'll choose a Mamiya 7 or large format. They just don't fit into that mindset for me. If I had to have one camera, perhaps I'd get a Leica. Don't feel like you need to.
 
As stated above, there are fixed lens cameras you can get on the cheap to see if you like the experience.
However, given that you sound serious about it and that you want interchangeable lenses, my advice would be to borrow a Leica with a 50 and 35mm lens, shoot 15 rolls with it in a week, and make up your mind thereafter.
The reason is, that people pay more for shooting with cameras that give not only the RF framing, but also a certain tactile experience, and above all the quality of good lenses with precise focusing.
If you have difficulties renting, consider that film Leicas do not depreciate a lot, so if you are careful and buy second hand at the right price, you stand a good chance to sell it back later with no loss.
 
As others have mentioned, there are some very good fixed-lens RFs on the market to satisfy the beginner's curiosity.
But if it must be with interchangeable lenses, here's a list:

Low price, $10-$200: Kiev 4A with Jupiter 12 and Jupiter 8. Super precise rangefinder and very nice optics. Build quality is pretty good too. But get one with shutter ribbons in good condition.
The Zorki 4 has a good reputation, as do some of the other M39 Soviet lenses.

Middle price, $200-500: Leica III series (super nice and compact, but small VF/RF windows), Canon P or Nikon RF (almost the same body + mount as the Kiev, but supposedly better quality).

High Price, $1000 and up: Leica M (impeccable quality and some of the best lenses money can buy for the 35 mm format, very easy to use, has the most accurate built-in meter I have ever used - never missed a shot), Mamiya 6/7 (drop-dead amazing lens system, limited range of three lenses). It's a truism that the gear doesn't make the image better, but in the case of the Mamiya systems, I dare say that it almost does.
 
Low: Kiev (up to version 4 IMO), which uses the Contax mount; Zorki (L39) —*I have and quite like the C as it feels more solidly built than later versions (I also have the 5 but don't really like it); FED (also L39) — I don't have much experience with these but a lot of other people do.
I find the Kievs and early Zorkis to be very tough (the early Zorkis copied the pre-M Leicas in design so the body is basically one piece — there's literally no give. Just watch out for wobbly base plates).

Middle: You'll probably find more fixed-lens RFs in this range.

High:
Canon screwmount RFs (the P is as heavy as a brick and feels about as tough; older RFs are also good but do some research on their viewfinders before you buy).
Any Leica RF
Nikon and Contax RFs.

If you need to use flash, make sure the camera actually has a PC sync port or hotshoe. And make sure it works.

Consider the lens mount before buying the camera. Screwmount (L39) is probably the most popular and expandable.
 
I think you can get some great Nikon Rangefinders at a good price.
I have a S2 and lens which I payed $750.00 for and it's great starting
point. You just have to wait for one at a good price.

Range
 
Range-rover said:
I think you can get some great Nikon Rangefinders at a good price.
I have a S2 and lens which I payed $750.00 for and it's great starting
point. You just have to wait for one at a good price.

Range
Click to expand...

They're great in that they keep their value even with a bit of wear, but the Nikon RF system has fewer lens options than LTM or M. Which only matters if you're planning on spending thousands on lenses anyway.

Thing is, in general the more high-end cameras you can sell off pretty quickly if you decide you don't like it after, say, a month. You won't lose too much on it either (you might even gain). Might not be the case with a low-end camera. If you can, it's worth just going for one of your high options. Keep it if you like it and sell it if you don't.
 
That's true about Nikon lenses for the rangefinder, but I picked up a Voigtlander
25mmf4 lens which is real nice, besides if you can get a M mount camera there's
seems to be tons of lenses for it now, between Leica (expensive), Zeiss (middle or the
road in price) and Voigtlander ( (some low to middle in price) you have more choices.
If I could I would pick up a Leica M6 and a Zeiss or Voigtlander lens for it.

Range
 
It's hard getting the "true" RF experience without dropping some money... I got a Zorki 4 as my first rangefinder and I hated it. Looking back on it now, I wouldn't recommend a russian rangefinder for someone who wants to experiment with RFs to see if they like it. They're cheap, but unless you buy them from people who have fixed them up... they're a pain in the bum. Most of them have their own little issues and quirks. their viewfinders aren't always the best, either.

Then I got the Leica iiic, and still didn't feel as... satisfied with it, the small, split viewfinder rangefinder windows were too much for a beginner like me, who was used to autofocus reflex cameras with big bright viewfinders.

I then bought an Leica M3 ($600), and was finally satisfied. I've also tried the Konica Hexar RF ($700) and been rather happy with it. My girlfriend just bought an M2 for around $550 (+$30 shipping... and we got hit by a stupid customs fee of $80), which is a very good price for an M2 in my books... and I eventually sold my M3 for $400. Leicas aren't "cheap" but they're not ALWAYS in the $1k price range. Right now I'm shooting an M5 I got for free :p
 
All the advice above is good. However -

While I really like my Kiev 4AM, getting FSU cameras is a hit and miss way to get into RF photography. If you get a good one you will no doubt like it a lot. If you don't get a good one ...

But if you know someone who can help you inspect one before buying, you will likely enjoy any FSU.
 
I just got a Nikon S2, plus the Voigtlander 50mm lens, which is $199 *NEW*. The Nikon S system is much cheaper than Leica, generally speaking, and my battered S2 feels as nice as my Leica M3. A cheap S2 may be worth a look.

The Bessa camera are very good value too.

If you're spending a lot, then you'll end up with a Leica eventually. You may decide it's not for you, but you'll probably want to at least try one.
 
< $100: A cleaned and lubed Zorki 6 or Fed 2 or Zorki 4
100-200: A serviced Canon P or Contax IIa
> 200: Leica M4-P
 
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xxloverxx said:
They're great in that they keep their value even with a bit of wear, but the Nikon RF system has fewer lens options than LTM or M. Which only matters if you're planning on spending thousands on lenses anyway.

Thing is, in general the more high-end cameras you can sell off pretty quickly if you decide you don't like it after, say, a month. You won't lose too much on it either (you might even gain). Might not be the case with a low-end camera. If you can, it's worth just going for one of your high options. Keep it if you like it and sell it if you don't.
Click to expand...
Thanks. At the moment, I'm considering a Leica III.
 
PatrickCheung said:
I wouldn't recommend a russian rangefinder for someone who wants to experiment with RFs to see if they like it.
Click to expand...

I agree. I had a Kiev 4a as my first rangefinder. I just couldn't get into it, the camera had too many issues. My suggestion would be to go with a Yashica. Even though they use fixed lenses, they are pretty decently priced cameras and a good bet to see if you really like using a rangefinder system.
 
Yashica Electro 35 GSN or Olympus XA.

The XA's operation might scare you off, so I'd start with the GSN and see if you like it. Both can be had in full operational condition for under $50 if you look around.
 
xxloverxx said:
As long as the smaller viewfinder doesn't bother you.
And you can't/shouldn't change shutter speeds before cocking the shutter.
(Not trying to discourage you – just things you should know.)
Click to expand...
Ok. Thanks. So, if not the III, which Leica, then? Which one in the same price range? Thanks.
 
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