Carsten
Newbie
Hello all!, i'm new here and i hope to get your help on a project i'm working on. But before I ask my questions I suppose I should give a little insight into who I am and what i am trying to achieve. Photography has been incredibly influential to me for over the years and it is how i make a portion of my income shooting semi-professionally with a canon dlsr and tons of lenses, flashes, and what not. But As of recently i've start to contemplate my life and the crazy stuff that i've been through like moving out on my own at 15, traveling, being homeless, My life as a skateboarder and all kinds of other stuff what had happened before i had even turned 18 years old, and my only regret is not having a camera to document everything, the people i met, the places i'd been, the situations i was in. So i've been thinking recently that I want to buy a camera to document my every day life( i don't think my life is that great to document it but maybe if i have a camera my life will be that great haha) I want to buy one camera and lens that i will carry with me everywhere I go from now until the end of my life. Documenting everything in between, my friends, my experiences, my wedding, my kids, my job, the retirement home i go into, everything. Essentially i want to be known as "that guy with the old camera who takes pictures and never leaves his camera behind." I'm putting myself through college this year and for the next couple of years and now seems like a perfect time to start documenting my life and one day in my closet will be old shoes boxes full of black and white negatives that will reflect my life.
So here is my plan, I am turning 19 years old this january, i plan on saving money each month and i hope to be able to buy my leica by the time i turn 20 and start my project at 20 years old.
I have been researching leica m bodies for weeks now and know them pretty well.
But, i need some buying advice from everyone to help me decide what to start saving for.
Firstly I want a film body, i plan to carry this camera for 60+ years, and my ultimate goal is to have a physical, tangible record of my life in the form of negatives and prints. So no m8 or m9
Secondly, I want something mechanical that i can always rely on and isn't going to die electronically so no m7.
third, I would like to have a built in light meter, while I am pretty good at using the force, a light meter would give me some reassurance. So M6/M6ttl but i'm not against an M3.
forth, I want something that is mechanically sound and will keep shooting for many many many many years, I plan on getting regular CLA of course but i'm still looking for something that is known for internal reliability.
fifth, I need something that is fairly low in price, I'm shooting for around a $2,000 budget for the body and plan on using a cheap canon lens or something until I can afford a summicon. So no MP
sixth, I really want a brass top, i know its irrelevant to shooting but if i am gonna carry something with me for the next 60 years i want something that will look prettier as it ages. One thing i have noticed is that it is near impossible to get a straight answer from anyone about this haha. the infamous last M6ttls? black paint m3s? What is zinc, what is brass? Nobody knows, its all a mystery.
Those are some perimeters I have set however, each of them (except number 1) can be broken. I am really just looking for some people to persuade me one way or another but with respect to what i am looking for.
I am open to all suggestions and discussion about what i should plan for.
also i plan on primarily shooting 50mm. 99 percent of the time.
also if anyone was interested in my photography
http://carstenschertzer.com
So here is my plan, I am turning 19 years old this january, i plan on saving money each month and i hope to be able to buy my leica by the time i turn 20 and start my project at 20 years old.
I have been researching leica m bodies for weeks now and know them pretty well.
But, i need some buying advice from everyone to help me decide what to start saving for.
Firstly I want a film body, i plan to carry this camera for 60+ years, and my ultimate goal is to have a physical, tangible record of my life in the form of negatives and prints. So no m8 or m9
Secondly, I want something mechanical that i can always rely on and isn't going to die electronically so no m7.
third, I would like to have a built in light meter, while I am pretty good at using the force, a light meter would give me some reassurance. So M6/M6ttl but i'm not against an M3.
forth, I want something that is mechanically sound and will keep shooting for many many many many years, I plan on getting regular CLA of course but i'm still looking for something that is known for internal reliability.
fifth, I need something that is fairly low in price, I'm shooting for around a $2,000 budget for the body and plan on using a cheap canon lens or something until I can afford a summicon. So no MP
sixth, I really want a brass top, i know its irrelevant to shooting but if i am gonna carry something with me for the next 60 years i want something that will look prettier as it ages. One thing i have noticed is that it is near impossible to get a straight answer from anyone about this haha. the infamous last M6ttls? black paint m3s? What is zinc, what is brass? Nobody knows, its all a mystery.
Those are some perimeters I have set however, each of them (except number 1) can be broken. I am really just looking for some people to persuade me one way or another but with respect to what i am looking for.
I am open to all suggestions and discussion about what i should plan for.
also i plan on primarily shooting 50mm. 99 percent of the time.
also if anyone was interested in my photography
http://carstenschertzer.com
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
Well, you need to have a lot of faith if you are looking 60 years into the future. It is more than possible that neither film nor anyone who can repair a mechanical camera like the M3 or M6 will still be around.
Given a shorter time frame, I'd go for a nice M6. The M3's are already 50+ years old. Don't get too wrapped up in the Leica ethos. Leicas break and need attention about as much as other cameras do.
Given a shorter time frame, I'd go for a nice M6. The M3's are already 50+ years old. Don't get too wrapped up in the Leica ethos. Leicas break and need attention about as much as other cameras do.
KM-25
Well-known
I'm going to PM you with an idea...
And don't listen to the negative stuff above, use black and white, stock up on it, chemistry and paper and show some of these bitter old curmudgeons how it is done.
And don't listen to the negative stuff above, use black and white, stock up on it, chemistry and paper and show some of these bitter old curmudgeons how it is done.
icebear
Mentor
Get a M3, get it serviced by Don (DAG) in case you are in the US (?).
Then it should be good for your estimated time span of use.
Nothing against the M6 but it's metering (or any camera's for that matter) sytem will not last that long. Just my 2 cents.
Then it should be good for your estimated time span of use.
Nothing against the M6 but it's metering (or any camera's for that matter) sytem will not last that long. Just my 2 cents.
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
I hear you, KM-25.
But DAG, Sherry and Youxin will be dead and gone in 60 years.
But DAG, Sherry and Youxin will be dead and gone in 60 years.
Carsten
Newbie
thats my plan, i plan to stock up on tri x and rodinal(equivalent).
and i know it seems like a long shot that i will actually follow through with this project but i am known to be ungodly stubborn when it comes to something i want to do.
KM-25
Well-known
I hear you, KM-25.
But DAG, Sherry and Youxin will be dead and gone in 60 years.
And that is a different topic, would be interesting to hear if some keen young person would apprentice with one of them...
If you think about it, they charge peanuts for these repairs so it could conceivably be a lucrative proposition for someone in the future, especially if they team up with a good CNC machine shop...
FrankS
Registered User
Good plan.
The only reason not to get an M3 is if you must have a built in meter or if you plan to shoot with a 35mm lens.
If you do plan to shoot with a 35, then get an M2, M4, M5, or M6.
If you must have a meter, get an M5 or M6.
If you plan to shoot with a 28, then get a 0.58 mag viewfinder M6.
The only reason not to get an M3 is if you must have a built in meter or if you plan to shoot with a 35mm lens.
If you do plan to shoot with a 35, then get an M2, M4, M5, or M6.
If you must have a meter, get an M5 or M6.
If you plan to shoot with a 28, then get a 0.58 mag viewfinder M6.
FrankS
Registered User
The OP said he was looking for a film leica.
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
I dunno, but nostalgia should be the providence of us old guys like me, not 19 year olds imaging the day they will be 80 years old and still fondling a 100 year old camera.
That said, Leica made a lot of M6 bodies. If there are going to be cameras to get spare parts from in 60 years, I would think it would be the M6.
That said, Leica made a lot of M6 bodies. If there are going to be cameras to get spare parts from in 60 years, I would think it would be the M6.
Pete B
Well-known
If it's truely a lifelong investment, find the money and get an a la carte MP with a voigt 35/40 f1.4, or a voigt 35 f2.5. If you feel the need to change to another lens do that when you have the money.
I, myself, prefer the M2 but if I do feel the need to meter I'll use an incident meter.
Pete
I, myself, prefer the M2 but if I do feel the need to meter I'll use an incident meter.
Pete
zauhar
Mentor
I think the young man wants the experience of physical media (in this case film). That is not just nostalgia.
The OP can correct me if I misunderstand his intent...
I second the suggestion for an M3. I also suggest the OP either purchase one from someone on the classifieds here, or from one of the distinguished repair people (e.g. Sherry Krauter, Youxin Ye ...)
Randy
KM-25
Well-known
I am working on getting him my M6TTL that I sold earlier this year that has the MP RF upgrade and a recent CLA...that shot the last frame of Kodachrome film. The guy emailed me last week that he needs to sell it and offered to sell it back to me.
People like Carsten is exactly how film will ride well into the latter part of this century, not people who can not see past the next keystroke...
People like Carsten is exactly how film will ride well into the latter part of this century, not people who can not see past the next keystroke...
Vickko
Mentor
A black paint M4 would be nice but out of your budget.
But I'd recommend a chrome M4, if you want meterless mechanical perfection. I even recommend the M4 over an M2/M3 due to some aging factors (prism cement, felt light shield failure), but I suppose those factors are irrelevant if you plan to do regular CLA's.
Or an M5 with late serial number if you really want a meter.
But I'd recommend a chrome M4, if you want meterless mechanical perfection. I even recommend the M4 over an M2/M3 due to some aging factors (prism cement, felt light shield failure), but I suppose those factors are irrelevant if you plan to do regular CLA's.
Or an M5 with late serial number if you really want a meter.
John Bragg
Well-known
Go for your dream Carsten. I applaud your determination as it reminds me of the long wait to get my Leica M6.
Livesteamer
Well-known
I've got M6's and M3's and they are fine cameras but they don't fit in a pocket.
A Leica IIIc does fit in a pocket when it has a collapsible lens on it. Classic and capable, it's what I carry every day. If you must get an M camera consider and M6 with a collapsible 50 or a compact 35.
Good Luck and Go For It. Joe
A Leica IIIc does fit in a pocket when it has a collapsible lens on it. Classic and capable, it's what I carry every day. If you must get an M camera consider and M6 with a collapsible 50 or a compact 35.
Good Luck and Go For It. Joe
hth
Well-known
I think the best match for you is a black paint M4.
The top will show brass, the viewfinder does not have the leak glue problem and no electronics will go wrong long term (and be expensive to repair).
You plan to use a 50, so an M3 may be the best, but if you ever end up wearing glasses, the viewfinder on M4 (or M2) will still allow you to see the 50 framelines. You may not see them in the M3 once your eye gets further away.
I do not know about prices, but when I was buying an M4 myself 5 years ago, the black ones were not that crazy expensive (no collector prices as earlier BPs). I may be wrong as I was targeting a chrome M4 so I did not pay that close attention.
In the end, I just use my worn M2 and my nice looking chrome M4 is starting to get sticky shutter due to lack of use...
The top will show brass, the viewfinder does not have the leak glue problem and no electronics will go wrong long term (and be expensive to repair).
You plan to use a 50, so an M3 may be the best, but if you ever end up wearing glasses, the viewfinder on M4 (or M2) will still allow you to see the 50 framelines. You may not see them in the M3 once your eye gets further away.
I do not know about prices, but when I was buying an M4 myself 5 years ago, the black ones were not that crazy expensive (no collector prices as earlier BPs). I may be wrong as I was targeting a chrome M4 so I did not pay that close attention.
In the end, I just use my worn M2 and my nice looking chrome M4 is starting to get sticky shutter due to lack of use...
stratcat
Well-known
I find my M3 a joy to use; it's inspiring, even. If you get one that's been recently cleaned and lubricated, it probably won't need servicing until you pass it on to the next generation...
An M2 or M4 may prove useful for that 1% of the time (according to your post) that you need to shot a 35mm. It can be done on the M3 (I use the whole viewfinder with good results) but having the corresponding framelines in the viewfinder is certainly far more convenient.
Finally, if you think you'll be shooting with a flash (yes, yes it's considered sinful by most leica shooters) then get the M6 TTL. Again, it can be done in an M2, M3 or M4 but it's just more convenient to rely on the TTL and hot shoe.
An M2 or M4 may prove useful for that 1% of the time (according to your post) that you need to shot a 35mm
. It can be done on the M3 (I use the whole viewfinder with good results) but having the corresponding framelines in the viewfinder is certainly far more convenient.Finally, if you think you'll be shooting with a flash (yes, yes it's considered sinful by most leica shooters) then get the M6 TTL. Again, it can be done in an M2, M3 or M4 but it's just more convenient to rely on the TTL and hot shoe.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
Just get a classic 0.72 M6 and run with it and start taking those photos: mine have been going strong for almost 20 years.
You will have enough money for a Zeiss or CV 35 and/or 50.
Leave the brass top desire behind for a couple more years - what are 2 years out of 60 !
You will have enough money for a Zeiss or CV 35 and/or 50.
Leave the brass top desire behind for a couple more years - what are 2 years out of 60 !
huddy
Well-known
Carsten, I like 35mm lenses, so I'd suggest an M6 and any of the wonderful 35mm lenses. I just picked up a mint M6TTL and ZM35/2.8C for $1200, so I know with some searching and patience, you can probably find some good deals too... all the better to have money for film, chemicals, and paper. I'm glad to hear someone else of a similar age wants to have a physical record in film...