froyd
Mentor
Raining? In Scotland? Queer.
I'm with CrisR, see the glass as half full (of rain water) and go capture some great images.
colonel
Established
The M9 is excellent and the results are better and lenses perform better.
However the M8 produces excellent pictures, it depends what you need
I doubt the M9 prices will come down much over the next year, they have already taken their M hit, at least in the UK. Most dealers are out of decent examples. There might be a dip with people upgrading next year, however I expect many will drip feed over 2013 with supply of the M likely to be tight.
At the most it could come down some few or more hundred pounds over 12 months, that is not worth shooting lost.
the M's price will not be discounted for many years, so the M9 will be effectively 55-60% of M's the price. Its up to you whether live view, video and 1-2 stops of ISO noise improvement is worth the extra
As much as I loved my M8, I never looked back after the M9
However the M8 produces excellent pictures, it depends what you need
I doubt the M9 prices will come down much over the next year, they have already taken their M hit, at least in the UK. Most dealers are out of decent examples. There might be a dip with people upgrading next year, however I expect many will drip feed over 2013 with supply of the M likely to be tight.
At the most it could come down some few or more hundred pounds over 12 months, that is not worth shooting lost.
the M's price will not be discounted for many years, so the M9 will be effectively 55-60% of M's the price. Its up to you whether live view, video and 1-2 stops of ISO noise improvement is worth the extra
As much as I loved my M8, I never looked back after the M9
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Are #2 and #3 somehow related?
Once used M-E bodies start showing up... they will go in the 75-80% of new range. This means, $4100-4400 for a body. This will further push the older M9 bodies into the sub $4000 range. Right now, ebay is a little higher than just a few weeks ago. Nothing lower than $4100 even to bid on for a M9.
Better, but only in ways that don't matter generally (unless you are swapping lenses a lot and like to preview what that lens' FOV might look like).
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I doubt it. The M9 is higher specified and chromed or black paint. In the end, the two types will probably be about the same price.
M9, not M9p.
kokoshawnuff
Alex
I don't really expect a lot of M9s to flood the market because of the ME, but there'll be hundreds if not thousands that come to market once the M actually starts shipping and the M9/M9P is officially discontinued. Perhaps the pro or knowledgable amature won't "upgrade" to the M or sell their M9s, but the many weekend photographers that love their Leica will trade in their M9s and that's when the prices will drop below $4k.
BTW I know one pretty big dealer that got an ME right when they began shipping in the US and he still hasn't sold it (but he does have 94 pre orders for the M)
BTW I know one pretty big dealer that got an ME right when they began shipping in the US and he still hasn't sold it (but he does have 94 pre orders for the M)
colonel
Established
The M9 and M9P are already discontinued
The ME is a great camera but I believe the M9 second hand will remain more desirable and therefore at a slight premium
If the M9 was so desirable vs. the M-E, then they would already be going for more than the M-E. The fact is that once the M-E and M(10) were announced, the M9's value dropped. Aesthetics and a preview lever only go so far for a small niche.
kokoshawnuff
Alex
Not officially. But it's just a matter of time
colonel
Established
The ME is very nice IMHO but the M9 has a nicer finish.
It also has more of a cache.
Despite the Leica M's being superb photography tools, they are also beautifully made and have a slight Jewelery element to them.
I get far more satisfaction picking up my M then I do my D800E.
We could take the Apple iPhone 4 8gb as an example.
When it came out it sold second hand at a premium to the 4 16gb, as it was a novelty. However after time it resumed its natural place behind the 4 16gb.
Those who are looking for sharp M9 reductions are waiting for a false dawn.
Many M9 owners are too rich to care about selling it when they buy a M. In addition even more will continue to be satisfied with their M9 for years to come.
Of course the M9 took a hit when the M was announced, to be honest effecting stellar second hand prices since 2009.
Sure, the M9 will loose 1-2 £100 per year.
However, you can get your clue simply by looking at the decay curve of the M8 and M8.2.
Ultimately the new M is just as incremental to the M9 as the M9 was to the M8, perhaps even more so
Best Rgds
colonel
Established
I'm not so sure this is the case. If the M has modern high ISO capabilities, this will be a significant update to some. However, some will continue to swear by CCD sensors, so....who knows.
colonel
Established
Fair enough. 
Roger Hicks
Mentor
To you. Your personal world picture does not always match the beliefs/expectations/experiences of others among us.
If I were buying a new Leica and didn't want/couldn't afford an M type 240, I'd buy an M-E. As it is, I like the M9 better than an M-E, which would be a downgrade rather than an upgrade. Why would an M9 owner want an inferior camera to what he already has?
Cheers,
R.
No need to get so salty sir. My point is that some may not care about things like paint / color and many don't use the preview lever and USB port. I'm sure Leica didn't leave off the preview lever because it thought 100% of its users wanted it. It most likely did its research and found that the preview lever and USB port were not used by many.
Also, I'm talking about those who do not have a M9 not "upgraders.". If you do not care about the aforementioned, then it is effectively the same camera.
I'm not so sure that I said any absolutes and I don't believe I said my opinion was the be all end all. I'm sorry you were offended by my opinion. However, it's a forum and opinions are going to differ at times.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
No, not offended, and sorry if I offended you.
My unkind suspicion is that there wasn't really room in the M Typ 240 for the frame preview lever and that it would have looked odd to have the cheaper camera with the extra feature. You are no doubt correct that it is seldom used by most people, except to free sticky viewfinder frames (for which it is VERY useful), and indeed, I've never used the USB port on a digital Leica. But I'm still not sure about 'effectively the same camera'.
My further suspicion is that the digital Ms did so (unexpectedly) well that they've amortized all their R&D on the M9 and probably make more profit on an M-E now than on an M9 when it was introduced -- especially with some of the wiring, broaching and mechanics omitted.
It strikes me as moderately unlikely, but far from impossible, that the M9 will acquire as much of a cult following as is possible for a digital camera.
Cheers,
R.
I didn't think about how much is actually left out of the M-E and how different it could look inside.
I can also see this happening, but I'm not sure how much it'll impact pricing. I'm currently trying to rebuy the M9 after selling mine like an idiot. I prefer the M9 too, but had to try to make a case for the M-E.