jett
Well-known
I want to get a compact wide-angle shooter.
Does it matter which version I get? LTM or M? Is there a difference in build, optics, close-focus limit? My impression is that the only difference really is in the mount and color/finish.
Which CV viewfinder is "better"? What are the differences between the plastic 21mm and the metal 21mm/25mm? Is there a difference in brightness, accuracy, and distortion? The metal looks better rand is probably more durable but is the plastic one more useable?
My idea was to get a 21mm lens/viewfinder and fit it on a lesser expensive small/compact rangefinder (Bessa L, Bessa T, CL, Leica III, and etc.) and then eventually I would probably get a Bessa R4 if I see one used at the right price.. I want a dedicated shooter because I feel that I would lose the viewfinder if I were to remove it on and off of my M bodies. I lost that Leica 50mm viewfinder once...argh..
Does it matter which version I get? LTM or M? Is there a difference in build, optics, close-focus limit? My impression is that the only difference really is in the mount and color/finish.
Which CV viewfinder is "better"? What are the differences between the plastic 21mm and the metal 21mm/25mm? Is there a difference in brightness, accuracy, and distortion? The metal looks better rand is probably more durable but is the plastic one more useable?
My idea was to get a 21mm lens/viewfinder and fit it on a lesser expensive small/compact rangefinder (Bessa L, Bessa T, CL, Leica III, and etc.) and then eventually I would probably get a Bessa R4 if I see one used at the right price.. I want a dedicated shooter because I feel that I would lose the viewfinder if I were to remove it on and off of my M bodies. I lost that Leica 50mm viewfinder once...argh..
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
If you get a Bessa L or R or Leica III then you will have to get an LTM lens. If you get any M mount camera: R2 and so on, Leica M, CL, Minolta CLE, Konica Hexar RF, Zeiss Ikon you will have to get an M mount lens. The benefit of getting the LTM lens is that you can use it on both types of cameras, only it requires a simple adapter when used on an M mount camera.
NOTE: CV also makes this lens in Nikon RF mount. This will NOT fit any Leica mount camera so be sure if you're going to go for Leica, to not buy the SC Skopar. You *could* get an SC Skopar and use it on a Nikon S2 though. They are pretty inexpensive as far as top quality cameras go.
It's a fantastic lens though, you'll enjoy it.
Phil Forrest
NOTE: CV also makes this lens in Nikon RF mount. This will NOT fit any Leica mount camera so be sure if you're going to go for Leica, to not buy the SC Skopar. You *could* get an SC Skopar and use it on a Nikon S2 though. They are pretty inexpensive as far as top quality cameras go.
It's a fantastic lens though, you'll enjoy it.
Phil Forrest
jett
Well-known
Thanks.
Well I'm aware of the mount compatibilities but thank you for clarifying. Between an LTM or M mount camera, I have no strong preferences. An S mount is possible too, I guess, but I feel that sticking with LTM/M would make things easier.
I was just wondering which lens is "better" and then I would get a compatible body. My thinking was that all things equal an LTM mount would be the most useful as I would be able to use it on LTM and M cameras; however, if the M mount version were better built, sharper, or focused closely, then I would get that version. I've never had a CV lens before but they get mixed reiviews. I believe that some lenses were better built than others? I'm really unusure. Well, I know I want to go CV this time because there are fewer alternatives that aren't double+ the price.
Well I'm aware of the mount compatibilities but thank you for clarifying. Between an LTM or M mount camera, I have no strong preferences. An S mount is possible too, I guess, but I feel that sticking with LTM/M would make things easier.
I was just wondering which lens is "better" and then I would get a compatible body. My thinking was that all things equal an LTM mount would be the most useful as I would be able to use it on LTM and M cameras; however, if the M mount version were better built, sharper, or focused closely, then I would get that version. I've never had a CV lens before but they get mixed reiviews. I believe that some lenses were better built than others? I'm really unusure. Well, I know I want to go CV this time because there are fewer alternatives that aren't double+ the price.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Optically they are the same. The M mount feels a bit more solid and I dont have to chase through the cabinets for an adapter ring when I want to use it. Cant find my LTM 21f4 at the moment (messy lens drawer). but I think it will focus down to 0.5 m, as will the M-mount. Of course, the rangefinder in the camera will cut out at 0.7 or 0.8 m, depending on the model.
For flexibility, in your case, I would go for the LTM version as that will allow you to use it on Leica screwmounts and Canon's as "dedicated" wide angle cameras. The Bessa T is also very good, it has a "magnified" finder that will give a longer base (though not that important with a 21). The rear exposure display is handy, and works well.
For a finder, I would go for the 21/25 metal one. It is much smaller than the plastic one. I never worry about distorsion with finders - it is not reflected in the lens performance anyway. As with any range finder - frame lines (in camera or finder) are just indicative - not precise. It varies with the focussing distance, but you quickly pick up the "actual" coverage anyway.
For flexibility, in your case, I would go for the LTM version as that will allow you to use it on Leica screwmounts and Canon's as "dedicated" wide angle cameras. The Bessa T is also very good, it has a "magnified" finder that will give a longer base (though not that important with a 21). The rear exposure display is handy, and works well.
For a finder, I would go for the 21/25 metal one. It is much smaller than the plastic one. I never worry about distorsion with finders - it is not reflected in the lens performance anyway. As with any range finder - frame lines (in camera or finder) are just indicative - not precise. It varies with the focussing distance, but you quickly pick up the "actual" coverage anyway.
Doug Smith
Member
I have both the LTM 21mm and 25mm Skopars with the original plastic viewfinders. Over time the viewfinders become loose and fall off the cameras easily. One of mine broke when it hit the pavement. I'd suggest the metal viewfinder but I have no personal experience with it. Both lenses are great and I use them all the time.
anjoca76
Well-known
I have that lens in LTM and love it, but while the plastic viewfinder is incredibly bright and usually a pleasure to use, I've recently noticed that the frame lines must have shifted every so slightly--all my photos tilt to the left. I'm contemplating opening it up and trying to adjust it myself, but I'm afraid I'll get in over my head and mess it up!
jett
Well-known
I decided to go for the M mount skopar and the metal viewfinder.
The reason for the metal viewfinder was easy: more durable, smaller, and better-looking.
The reason for the M mount skopar: ooks better with my intended cameras, and it was the only one available (on keh.com). I decided that I would get a CL over a Leica LTM (Or canon, for that matter) if I wanted a compact shooter but my ideal camera for this lens would probably be a Bessa R4M.
Anyways, I hope to play with this lens/viewfinder and I hope it is accurate enough...I worry because I like to shoot at close distances with 21mm's. I know this screems SLR but I dislike looking through SLR viewfinders and using SLR's in general. It seems almost silly that I keep an SLR only for wide angle lenses...I think that the R4M is the body that I need/want.
The reason for the metal viewfinder was easy: more durable, smaller, and better-looking.
The reason for the M mount skopar: ooks better with my intended cameras, and it was the only one available (on keh.com). I decided that I would get a CL over a Leica LTM (Or canon, for that matter) if I wanted a compact shooter but my ideal camera for this lens would probably be a Bessa R4M.
Anyways, I hope to play with this lens/viewfinder and I hope it is accurate enough...I worry because I like to shoot at close distances with 21mm's. I know this screems SLR but I dislike looking through SLR viewfinders and using SLR's in general. It seems almost silly that I keep an SLR only for wide angle lenses...I think that the R4M is the body that I need/want.
RallyFan
Member
While optically the same, I thought the LTM version came with a finder (plastic, anyway) and was the same price?
benlees
Well-known
I'm pretty sure the ltm 21 and 25 come with the plastic viewfinder included. Every time I use my 25mm I worry a little for the (plastic and chipped) viewfinder. I may spring for the metal one.
jett
Well-known
Yes, that is true.
Well I got mine used.
I felt that I could have saved some money if I bought the metal viewfinder and waited for a skopar to pop up on the used market but then I felt that was too much work because I dis-like selling gear and I do not like to buy gear to save money.
I also figured that since I was getting mine used from keh.com so I had better evaluate the viewfinder with the lens to see how I liked the framing. My fear is that the framing might be too much guess work.