youngeajoy
Member
I have lots of sweat in my hand so I always put a halfcase on the M body. I'd like to know if sweat could corroad the M bodies? I want to use naked M bodies!:bang:
kdemas
Enjoy Life.
I'd say the grip material is more likely to get rotted out.
peterm1
Mentor
Naked bodies............hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Seriously I dont think that it would cause an issue in practice. After all that is part of the function of the chrome plating - it protects the structural metal beneath. But I am finnicky in such matters and always try to keep my cameras clean. I always have one or more microfibre cloths to hand to wipe the camera if needed - including wiping sweat and body oils from it.
I tend to find greasy body oils to be more of an issue than sweat as it leaves upleasant marks on the camera that can also attract and hold dust and dirt. (How often have you seen an older camera that has grimy black accumulations of gunk around and in crevices? A lot I am betting!) Never the less I have never seen corrosion on an M body that has been stored correctly (i.e. no moisture) and given basic cleaning in the nature of a wipe down now and then.
Incidentally I use a rag dampened (barely dampened I should add) with one of the many spray surface cleaners you can get in any supermarket. These have strong surfecants that are designed to dissolve grease, oils dirt etc and allow them to be wiped off easily leaving no residue.
Microfibre cleaning cloths are readily and cheaply available from the same source (and from hardware stores, auto parts stores etc) and come in different sizes. Once about a foot square (300mm x 300mm ) or bigger is also ideal for wrapping a Leica M bodies when carrying it in the camera bag thus giving greater protection from bumps.
Seriously I dont think that it would cause an issue in practice. After all that is part of the function of the chrome plating - it protects the structural metal beneath. But I am finnicky in such matters and always try to keep my cameras clean. I always have one or more microfibre cloths to hand to wipe the camera if needed - including wiping sweat and body oils from it.
I tend to find greasy body oils to be more of an issue than sweat as it leaves upleasant marks on the camera that can also attract and hold dust and dirt. (How often have you seen an older camera that has grimy black accumulations of gunk around and in crevices? A lot I am betting!) Never the less I have never seen corrosion on an M body that has been stored correctly (i.e. no moisture) and given basic cleaning in the nature of a wipe down now and then.
Incidentally I use a rag dampened (barely dampened I should add) with one of the many spray surface cleaners you can get in any supermarket. These have strong surfecants that are designed to dissolve grease, oils dirt etc and allow them to be wiped off easily leaving no residue.
Microfibre cleaning cloths are readily and cheaply available from the same source (and from hardware stores, auto parts stores etc) and come in different sizes. Once about a foot square (300mm x 300mm ) or bigger is also ideal for wrapping a Leica M bodies when carrying it in the camera bag thus giving greater protection from bumps.
R
rpsawin
Guest
Maybe if you lived in Chernobyl for awhile...
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
A 1967-built Leica M4 that I briefly owned and sold to a fellow member and friend, had corrosion on the metal where the previous users gripped it, front and rear. It also had a big chunk of vulcanite missing, that actually was located in the exact spot where ones nose would rub past the body when using the right eye to focus. Shaped like a nose-rub too
Coincidentally I bought it from a young Chinese student and it looked like it had always been used in a hot, humid climate. maybe China or Vietnam or Cambodia...?
If you put 20+ years of use on your camera, I'm positive it will show corrosion on the spots where you grip it. Until then, I wouldn't worry too much...
awbphotog
Well-known
A 1967-built Leica M4 that I briefly owned and sold to a fellow member and friend, had corrosion on the metal where the previous users gripped it, front and rear. It also had a big chunk of vulcanite missing, that actually was located in the exact spot where ones nose would rub past the body when using the right eye to focus. Shaped like a nose-rub too
Coincidentally I bought it from a young Chinese student and it looked like it had always been used in a hot, humid climate. maybe China or Vietnam or Cambodia...?
If you put 20+ years of use on your camera, I'm positive it will show corrosion on the spots where you grip it. Until then, I wouldn't worry too much...
Got any photos of the nose rub? I'd love to see that
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Your sweat contains salts, but unless the anodizing is faulty it should not 'orange-peel' or do other weird things. I imagine the nickel coating under the anodizing is probably close to indestructible, since it is the same material used to line the inside of firearms barrels.
The only thing you have to worry about is a gash on a magnesium top plate (M6, M6ttl, some R bodies) that goes through both of those layers and exposes the magnesium. Magnesium will oxidize, when it comes in to contact with oxygen and turn in to a white powder. But I have yet to hear about this actually happening....
Just wipe her down every once and a while, with a damp cloth. I live near the ocean and there is a lot of salt in the air. Just part of regular maintenance to keep them running.
The only thing you have to worry about is a gash on a magnesium top plate (M6, M6ttl, some R bodies) that goes through both of those layers and exposes the magnesium. Magnesium will oxidize, when it comes in to contact with oxygen and turn in to a white powder. But I have yet to hear about this actually happening....
Just wipe her down every once and a while, with a damp cloth. I live near the ocean and there is a lot of salt in the air. Just part of regular maintenance to keep them running.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I would be inclined to think that the chrome plated brass models would not be too susceptible to corrosion, because chromium is the metal that is alloyed with steel to make it stainless. But that would not explain the result reported by Johan (Buzzardkid) above . . .
I guess you can corrode anything under the right circumstances.
I guess you can corrode anything under the right circumstances.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
The problem is not the corrosion of the body but that tiny bit of sweat that continues to wick it's way down inside through the shutter release button. It is worse if you carry your camera in your hand rather than letting it dangle on a strap.
I have had to have a shutter release button corrode and short on a Zeiss Ikon. My camera repair guy says Leica's are no better.
I have had to have a shutter release button corrode and short on a Zeiss Ikon. My camera repair guy says Leica's are no better.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The only time when I have found that sweat or moisture caused problems was with the black paint M's. There was (is) a reaction between the paint they used and the brass underneath - and this was "assisted" by sweat and mopisture. It created small bubbles in the paint. It is actually one of the best ways to indentify a user black paint M2/M3 - on the back. below the advance lever and the right hand curve of the top-plate. repaints (or mint -i.e.) have a smooth surface - the "battle scared" bodies has this typical bubbling of the paint.
kennylovrin
Well-known
I'm in Thailand currently, and if this is a big problem I'm sure my M9 will break down any minute. in this climate one cannot tell the difference between my hands and the hotel pool, haha.
Kenny
in this climate one cannot tell the difference between my hands and the hotel pool, haha.Kenny
Richard G
Mentor
Greasy fingers are good for the vulcanite. I've not had a problem with sweat at all but it's not so humid where I am.
zerobuttons
Well-known
I find it highly likely that this will vary not only with the climate, as some have already suggested, but also with the user.
It is a well-known phenomenon among brass-instrument musicians that some can have an instrument for decades without the brass lacquer being affected, while others begin to see the lacquer being etched with finger prints and later flake away, on instruments only months old.
It is a well-known phenomenon among brass-instrument musicians that some can have an instrument for decades without the brass lacquer being affected, while others begin to see the lacquer being etched with finger prints and later flake away, on instruments only months old.
haempe
Well-known
At least the paint can be affected by finger sweat.
Edit: As the early CV products are known for the bad paint quality, this may have not much relevance for this thread.
Edit: As the early CV products are known for the bad paint quality, this may have not much relevance for this thread.
Joosep
Well-known
When I was in Spain last summer there was a lot of sweaty fingers. At the end of the day (had at least 10 hour long days) the sweat mixed with a strong suncream seemed to fill the leather gaps and it resulted in a lousy grip. But other than that, nothing else...
V-12
Well-known
It is hard to understand where the 1967 M4 shown above was corroding, since neither chrome or brass can corrode?
Sure enough chrome can lift off the metal underneath due to contamination or rust, but the material itself remains chrome even as it flakes off. And brass simply does not corrode, so it can't be 'rusting' and pushing the chrome off the surface. But then again Leica did start to go through a bad period about then, so maybe they accidentally hit on a new way to beat science. As regards body oils I would have thought a good build up of oily gunge in the nooks and crannies, gaps and holes, would act as a seal against sweat flowing into the body of the camera and causing galvanic action between steels and alloys. Dirty may be best.
Sure enough chrome can lift off the metal underneath due to contamination or rust, but the material itself remains chrome even as it flakes off. And brass simply does not corrode, so it can't be 'rusting' and pushing the chrome off the surface. But then again Leica did start to go through a bad period about then, so maybe they accidentally hit on a new way to beat science. As regards body oils I would have thought a good build up of oily gunge in the nooks and crannies, gaps and holes, would act as a seal against sweat flowing into the body of the camera and causing galvanic action between steels and alloys. Dirty may be best.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Chrome-plated brass (Old Ms and M7, MP) is quite resistant against corrosion while chrome-plated zinc (M6, M6TTL) not so .... once you get microscopic small pits or scratches through the chrome-plating layers (and nickel) then it will start with the assistance of salt. Some of the early M6TTL had similar problems, formation of small bubbles in the chrome-layer occurred wit time and as a possible reason for this the tanning agents for the leather used in half-cases were considered.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
That's just hard earned wear and tear from lots of handling. Garry Winogrand's M4 on the Cameraquest.com page looks the same.
Even my M4 is starting to show similar wear, especially around the edges. Interestingly my M2, which has seen just about the same amount of use, is showing less wear on the chrome than my M4. Come to think of it, I believe I've seen far more heavily brassed chrome M4 bodies than M2 units. Maybe the chrome process was changed at some point?
I've also noticed differences in the quality of the black chrome on M6/M6ttl bodies. I purchased my TTL new from a dealer in 1998 and the black anodizing has always struck me as poor, compared to many other M6/TTL bodies I've encountered. What is really odd is that the finish on the rewind knob and battery cover never quite matched the rest of the camera. Overall the anodizing just looks thin. Back in Solms they must have had a few schnapps too many for lunch on the day they put mine together.
A friend of mine also had a black ttl and when you put them side by side it was readily apparent how crappy the finish on my camera is. And hasn't worn very well either. After 15 years it's got that steel wool, Brillo pad look. In one area I'm starting to approach the nickel plating.
When I bought my M7 (also new from a dealer) the first thing that struck me when I took it out of the box was how thick and dense the anodizing looked; compared to how the TTL appeared when new.
And here's another twist. I also have an R6.2 that I purchased, as a new demo unit from a dealer. I would have to double check, but I seem to remember that it was made around the same time as my TTL. It has the same crappy black anodizing finish as the TTL. Thin, not quite a deep black and it also has worn poorly. The camera has not seen all that much use, but you wouldn't know that by looking at it. Bag wear alone has left it's mark...
Spicy
Well-known
I look forward to the day when the marks I leave on my camera from heavy use are more than the dings and dents from being careless and dropping it.
Penny Lane
Hopelessly Citrophile
Got any photos of the nose rub? I'd love to see that
Here 's a quick snap of it:
Yep, that's the same M4. It's got wear & tear all over it. A real 'Relic' look! I still wonder when Leica is going to offer that as part of their á la carte program... If anyone over at Leica is reading in, I'm open for offers on the idea
The bald spot on the side does tie in neatly with where your nose rubs the camera when you use your right eye for framing!
Cheers,
Derk