TLR for travel/landscapes?

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02Pilot

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I am not at the moment a medium format shooter, but I have been intrigued by it for some time. I will be traveling this summer to the Adriatic coast and I'm thinking a MF camera would be useful for shooting the coastline landscape. My problems are: 1) determining which type of MF camera to get and, 2) money, or more precisely a lack thereof.

I chose to post in the TLR forum because I know of a local shop that has a couple of Rolleis (a Rolleiflex and a Rolleicord; I don't know more about which specific models) that I could probably pick up for ~$100/ea. Other than that, my thoughts were either a Moskva folder or..., well, I ran out of other thoughts at that point, not knowing much about the MF world.

So, my questions are:

- How useful is a 6x6 TLR for landscape photography? Would I be better off with a 6x9 folder?

- Is there anything specific I should look for if I go back to the shop to investigate the Rolleis he has further? Any models to run away from at that price point?

- Do you have any other suggestions for what MF cameras might fit my needs, particularly for my summer trip?

Thanks very much.
 
Why when you ask about MF photography are you limiting yourself to TLR?

There are Press cameras, folders, non-folders, etc. If you simply think TLRs are cool, that is one thing. If you are looking for something less expensive to get you feet wet, you might prefer a good folder.

I have a Welta 6x6/645 scale focus folder I am fond of. It takes quite good photos, and for a 6x6 it is compact. I also have a Zeiss 6x9 scale focus folder that is probably a little lighter than the Welta. It also takes very good photos. And the 6x9 negative is just about good for contact sheet photos.

Any camera is good for landscape once you know how to use it. I don't think I have a camera with more than three rolls of film in it that I haven't taken a landscape photo with it. TLRs are usually held at waist level when shooting. That may not always be the kind of landscape photo you want. But they can be held higher, sideways or upside down. A tripod is good, but not necessary, for sideways shots. Some TLRs have a pair of windows in the top cover that allow eye level aiming. Some people are put off by the reversed viewing of TLRs, but that is something one usually gets used to.

Hope the above helps. If you have more questions, I or others here at RFF would be happy to answer.
 
I have a Rolleiflex and brought it with me on several trips, i found the 6x6 quite useful for landscapes. Mind you, i brought a 35 mm rangefinder as well. Both the Rolleiflex and the Rolleicord are very good camera's with great lenses. The Rolleicord is a more budget version of the Rolleiflex, its latest version is called the Rolleicord Vb. I think that one is the way to go with the Rolleicord. These folder camera's can be nice too, but i've read they can have problems with filmflatness, i have never used one though. There is lots of information to be found on the internet, i wil advice you to find out about the different versions to see wich version is in the shop. If you check the camera's in the local shop take look at the lens (it has to be clean of course), the shutterspeeds and the aperture. It may be good idee to have the camera checked, cleaned and adjusted by a camera repair man, it wil be great to use.

This is a good site to check out:
http://www.rolleiclub.com/cameras/tlr/info/early_tlr.shtml

Some results from my trip to Chile and Bolivia:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timo70/sets/72157625157975686/

Cheers,

Timo
 
You may find that the Rolleiflex is priced higher than the Rolleicord -- or at least it should be! A Rolleiflex at that price is a great deal; chances are it's an earlier version of the Rolleiflex, with a 4 element lens (probably a Tessar), which means its lens is going to be essentially equivalent to the lens on the Rolleicord (Xenar -- unless it's a early Rolleicord with a Triotar lens). So there are a few lens variables here that you should sort out, but for scenic photography, where you're most likely stopping down to f8 or smaller, the differences among the lenses will be pretty minor, really. (In any event, get a proper lens shade!)

As noted, the Rolleicord is the budget Rollei -- film loading is slower, as is film advance. Charging the shutter is a separate step on the Rolleicord also. But again, for what you want to use it for, the somewhat slower process of the Rolleicord won't make a difference. The Rolleicords weigh less than the Rolleiflexes, so that's a factor to consider for traveling. The viewing lens on the Rolleicord is f3.2 as I recall vs. f2.8 on the Rolleiflex -- this is potentially important if you're shooting indoors, but shouldn't be if you're taking outdoor shots.

There really aren't any Rolleiflexes or Rolleicords to avoid, though some repairers will tell you the Rolleiflex T is just not up to the quality level of the other cameras, Rolleicords included. The older the camera (and some of these are easily 60 years old at this point), the more likely it'll need servicing, and the more likely the lens will have issues -- haze (fixable) and cleaning marks (not fixable; definitely need a shade for these). But I've got a late '40s Rolleiflex that works great. So it really comes down to seeing what your local shop has, and for how much.

As for 6x6 vs. 6x9, square format can work great for landscapes. You may just need to compose a little more carefully -- but you can always crop, too. 6x9 will definitely work great for landscapes, as I'm sure you figured. The Moskva is a good choice -- fine lenses (Tessar/Xenar clone). The Moskva-4's lens is f4.5 while the -5 is an f3.5. Very solid basic design and well made, modeled on the Ikonta. (And you can get them with a 6x6 mask, which is well worth keeping mind for extra versatility.)

Let us know more about those Rolleis at your shop.
 
What sort of landscapes do you want to take? If you need a wide angle, then forget anything with fixed lenses unless you are prepared to pay mint for it like a Makina W67 or are prepared to use an oddball. And how important is 6x6 for you? Almost all the usual suspects have "normal" lenses aka 50mm in 135. Can you live with a single focal length?

I know it is silly to answer a question with another question but I think it is madness to go on a holiday with a camera you are not aquainted with. If you don't have a TLR already and have no idea how it relates to the kind of landscapes you like to take then I would say "forget it". On the other hand if you already like a TLR or are confident to be able to adapt to one AND you already take landscapes that please you with another camera and you know what kind of lens you use for that then it is an option.

If you like a wide angle for your landscapes and want to go TLR then a Mamiya Cxxx is the most obvious option to go for. But these are camera's that you need to love for what they are: tools to take pictures with. They are not wet dreams of slick, small and unobstrusive. They are not part of the brands that are talked about in whispered tones. They are not those that you show to make it known you are part of a sacred following. They won't have others ask themselves how you are able to afford them. But they will take any picture you ask them to take and make it a decent one.
 
I agree with everyone - especially Spanik.

It would be crazy to go on holiday with something you don't really know how to get the best out of.

TLRs have many pains and pleasures - my C330 was a great introduction to the world of MF photography, but it took me a very long time to get used to (a) the reversed view of the world and (b) even more than (a) getting used to shooting with a square format after years of using 35mm.

If you want to try it, then by all means buy a RolleiXXX, but they tend to be expensive. You could try getting a Yashica 124 off ebay - just as good in terms of lens, but much, much cheaper.

Or if you are convinced that MF is the way to go, go out and get a Mamiya 7 - I love them, rangefinder, so again not to everyone's taste if you have used SLR's all your life, but great pictures can result.

But I'd really think about getting something you're not used to and taking it on holiday, especially something as fiddly as a MF camera.

rjstep3
 
At about $100 each, buy both if they are working. Any medium format camera is great for landscapes, which don't tend to move quickly. The extra film real estate is capable of recording/rendering finer detail than 135 film.
 
If you have the time to put a few rolls through before your vacation, and the TLR appeals to you, go for it. Oftentimes a new camera is just what we need to shake us up and get us looking in a new way. So the idea that you never go out with a camera until you are totally familiar with it is questionable.

Look at Michael Kenna and David Plowden for two landscape photographers using 6x6 often.

And then Robert Doisneau, who cropped 6x6 all the time. Remember, that was one of the uses of 6x6 back in the day- it gave you the option to crop as needed. That was even Hasselblad's marketing spiel untuil the came out with the H series....
 
I recenlty purchased a Rolleicord III from a member here, and I love it. Still getting used to focusing w/ the ground glass. I love the results I'm getting, particularly in landscapes. The 'cord's light weight (compared to a Rolleiflex) has me thinking about taking it on vacations. It fits nicely into my little Domke 5x bag, w/ room for a Leica M or Barnack and an extra lens. You don't say which model of the Rolleiflex you are considering, but I would bet it's noticeably heavier than the 'cord. The Rolleicord is turning out to be a very enjoyable entry into MF for me.
 
Haven't weighed them, but the various Rolleiflex Automat models from the early to mid 1950s seem fairly light for full function TLRs. The simpler 'Cords may be marginally lighter. As FrankS says, at a $100 a pop and if they work, spring for both of them and check 'em out. Same great optics, somewhat different handling.
 
If you like the 'normal' perspective, the Rollei (or any similar well built TLR) is a joy to use. But I wouldn't go away on a trip without trying it.

Personally, I could, quite happily use nothing but a Rollei as a one-camera/one-lens combination, for almost everything, forever. But lots of people don't get on with TLRs at all.
 
For Medium Format landscape starting up camera, I wholeheartedly suggest Fuji 645 series.
Plenty to choose from and all of those has excellent lenses. Just get one that works, with 65mm or wider lens.

TLR is fun, but try it out in your own backyard first. Well, not "backyard" per se, I mean your own town.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions and comments.

For those concerned with achieving familiarity prior to taking the camera on vacation, not to worry; as I mentioned, the trip is not until summer. I'm looking into camera options now precisely so that I will have some time to become accustomed before I go.

I should probably have included some information on what I shoot with now. Currently, I use both 35mm and digital; in film I have a variety of cameras - rangefinder, viewfinder, and SLR. I am not wedded to any one type of camera, but I am trying to develop and better understanding of which cameras are best for certain tasks, hence my question.

It seems there are many options for me to consider, both TLRs and others. I will go and look at the two Rolleis I mentioned soon; I may pursue purchasing one (or both, if the seller is feeling generous and makes me a deal) if I like the handling (and they work). I will also check to see what's available online in my price range, and see if I can locate some of the other models mentioned so I can handle them.

Again, thanks for your comments - they are appreciated.
 
I got some good shots by about my fourth roll through an Automat 4 Rolleiflex I bought from the classifieds here. It is a great experience. It's FrankS's fault partly. He posted last year that every photographer needs to try a Rolleiflex some time in their life. I had to agree. I've done a fair bit of reading around the matter and I am happy with what I got. A 2.8 lens would be nice, but heavier and more expensive. Mine is the 3.5 Xenar. More than good enough. I took it on my recent beach holiday and on a walk in the forest. It's light for two reasons: the camera is mostly air, and you aren't carrying even one extra lens. The hood is a must.
 
If you're hoping to use this camera this summer, I think you'd best get going soon. There's quite a bit to learn in MF, and this is especially true with TLRs. The picture in the VF will be right-side-up, but it will be reversed left-to-right. Shooting in the square format of 6x6 is quite a challenge and all of this needs some practice. I don't want to discourage you, just trying to build a sense of urgency. I love my Rollei, but it takes some getting used to.
 
At first the waist level viewfinder on a TLR is a bit confusing. It takes awhile to get used to moving the camera opposite to the direction on the ground glass. If you use the camera fairly frequently that becomes second nature. If you use it only once in awhile, you will probably hate the camera.

The finder is ideal for low viewpoint photography: kids, pets, flowers, etc. You only need a short tripod, 48 inches or so, which is usually both cheaper and lighter than a tall one. Landscapes are easy and fun.

One of the things you will need to learn is that you do not need to fit your subject to the square shape, you have plenty of negative for cropping. A 1 x 2.25 inch crop is still lots bigger than a 35mm negative, and gives you a panoramic perspective. Many TLR's have a grid on the ground glass to help you plan your crops when shooting.

The one thing I never found a TLR great for is action photography. Sure you can do it, but it always seemed clumsy to me. Because of that I often used to carry a TLR and a 35mm camera in my kit. On the other hand, I have always loved the TLR photographing people in the studio and out.

The cameras you are looking at are probably going to need a CLA to be usable, so plan on that.
 
You can remount the image on slide film in a smaller windowed slide mount, like those used for 6x4.5 if you want to project it. Cropping while printing or scanning slide film is no problem at all.

Edit: Dan got it first.
 
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