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old 07-07-2018  
WyattMacMaurer WyattMacMaurer is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2017
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Unhappy Matt Day Medical Care GoFundMe

Hey everyone,

I guess Matt Day has had some sudden serious health issues. A GoFundMe has been set up to help defray the healthcare cost for his family.

https://www.gofundme.com/help-matt-day-and-family

He always came across to me in his videos as a very genuine, down to earth guy that really enjoyed sharing his love of photography with people through his videos.

I gave a small amount of money, and saw that there was no mention of it on RFF so far, so I figured I would try and help by getting the word out on here. (I am not affiliated with this GoFundMe campaign)

 




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old 07-07-2018
Steve M.
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Thanks for posting this.
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old 07-08-2018
ACullen
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Thanks for posting this
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old 07-08-2018
Colin G.
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Thank you for sharing.
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old 07-08-2018
agoglanian
Reconnected.
I came across it via Instagram and donated what I could. I haven’t had the chance to meet Matt in person yet but he’s been a super nice dude to chat with and discuss photography. I would say it’s fortunate that his wife happens to be a Nurse and was able to get him the care he needed, and I hope for a speedy recovery (it sounds like he’s mostly stabilized which is great news!).
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old 07-19-2018
kiemchacsu
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no offense here but i was curious how this campaign will go.
what surprises me is that the target has been increased several times
from 10,000 to 20,000 and now 50,500
wow, it totally amazed me that some people can mobilize that large amount of money for private treatment.
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old 07-19-2018
oftheherd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
no offense here but i was curious how this campaign will go.
what surprises me is that the target has been increased several times
from 10,000 to 20,000 and now 50,500
wow, it totally amazed me that some people can mobilize that large amount of money for private treatment.
I wish him well. Medical expenses can be very expensive, and can increase unrealistically.
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old 07-19-2018
Paul T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
no offense here but i was curious how this campaign will go.
what surprises me is that the target has been increased several times
from 10,000 to 20,000 and now 50,500
wow, it totally amazed me that some people can mobilize that large amount of money for private treatment.
I hope he raises all the money he needs.

In the UK, with a lot of American friends and colleagues, I'm starting to lose count of the number of gofundme's that I've contributed to. In one case a good friend, and internationally published writer, spent the last couple of years of his life shuttling over from Detroit to Canada, for treatment.

Initially it was a shock to me that freelance creatives, in a wealthy nation, should have to fund life-saving care that way, but now I realise it's an every-day occurrence.
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old 07-19-2018
BLKRCAT
99% Film
Forgive me but doesn't medical insurance cover stuff like this in the US?
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old 07-19-2018
Obamacare
bushwick1234
Registered User
Answer is: NO, thanks to Obamacare (aka Mitt Romney’s health care reform in Massachusetts).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Forgive me but doesn't medical insurance cover stuff like this in the US?
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old 07-19-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Forgive me but doesn't medical insurance cover stuff like this in the US?
Only if you have it. Not everyone does. This is one of the reasons my wife and I returned to Europe after living in California 1987-1992.

When she was diagnosed with breast cancer in the UK in 2000, she started crying. The nurse said, "Don't worry. It takes many people like this." She replied, "You don't understand. These are tears of gratitude. Here, I'm facing only cancer. In the US I'd have been facing bankruptcy and losing my house as well."

Since 2002 we've lived in France. Late in 2017, the cancer came back. Three months ago she had a mastectomy. As far as I can work out, the cost of her treatment so far would have been over $100,000 in the US. Here: nothing.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-19-2018
steveyork
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Only if you have it. Not everyone does. This is one of the reasons my wife and I returned to Europe after living in California 1987-1992.

When she was diagnosed with breast cancer in the UK in 2000, she started crying. The nurse said, "Don't worry. It takes many people like this." She replied, "You don't understand. These are tears of gratitude. Here, I'm facing only cancer. In the US I'd have been facing bankruptcy and losing my house as well."

Since 2002 we've lived in France. Late in 2017, the cancer came back. Three months ago she had a mastectomy. As far as I can work out, the cost of her treatment so far would have been over $100,000 in the US. Here: nothing.

Cheers,

R.
My sister-in=law just fought that battle. Today though, according to the Affordable Care Act, health plans in the US must cover cancer, ect., and everyone is required to have insurance. Such is my understanding.
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old 07-19-2018
richardHaw
junk scavenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Only if you have it. Not everyone does. This is one of the reasons my wife and I returned to Europe after living in California 1987-1992.

When she was diagnosed with breast cancer in the UK in 2000, she started crying. The nurse said, "Don't worry. It takes many people like this." She replied, "You don't understand. These are tears of gratitude. Here, I'm facing only cancer. In the US I'd have been facing bankruptcy and losing my house as well."

Since 2002 we've lived in France. Late in 2017, the cancer came back. Three months ago she had a mastectomy. As far as I can work out, the cost of her treatment so far would have been over $100,000 in the US. Here: nothing.

Cheers,

R.
stay strong, Mrs. Hicks!

here in Japan, you get part of the bill covered. not 100% but at least its better than nothing
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old 07-20-2018
Tonkatsu-Dog
Registered User
I think here in Japan there is also an upper cap on medical spending out of pocket based on your income that kicks in and you don't have to pay more. (Fortunately I have not had to use it...)

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Originally Posted by richardHaw View Post
stay strong, Mrs. Hicks!

here in Japan, you get part of the bill covered. not 100% but at least its better than nothing
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old 07-20-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
In France, it's only 100% for long-term or serious conditions, but "ordinary" paid-for stuff is reimbursed at (I think) 65% of artificially low "conventionné" prices, e.g 300€ (call it $350) for a major operation such as appendicitis or other abdominal surgery, or 25-45€ for blood tests (depending on what they test). At 65% you'd get 195€ back on 300€, -- unless you are very poor, when it's 100%. I think my appenectomy cost well under 1000€ in total.

Frances is doing very well: everything is proceeding at the best text-book outcomes.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-20-2018
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Forgive me but doesn't medical insurance cover stuff like this in the US?
YES, medical insurance does cover things like this in the US. Such insurance is available to everyone.

BUT, you must buy and pay for the medical insurance. It is effectively your choice as is not totally included with government social benefits in the US as it is in Canada or most European countries.

Some choose not to pay for medical insurance and then have large out of pocket payments such as this. (No adverse implications to Matt Day personally) Then those medical costs are a financial burden to them and subsequently to the other members of US society who end up paying those uninsured patients expenses through increased hospital and doctor rates as well as tax payments to the US government.

Medical care in the US is very expensive (but that is another debate) costing an average of around $10,000 per person per year. But it is what it is. One must pay it one way or the the other. Buy insurance or pay for it out of your own pocket as expenses are incurred. Or, do neither and let the rest of society pay for your medical costs. Again, nothing against Matt Day personally, but that is the situation here.
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old 07-20-2018
Roger Hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
YES, medical insurance does cover things like this in the US. Such insurance is available to everyone.

BUT, you must buy and pay for the medical insurance. It is effectively your choice as is not totally included with government social benefits in the US as it is in Canada or most European countries.

Some choose not to pay for medical insurance and then have large out of pocket payments such as this. (No adverse implications to Matt Day personally) Then those medical costs are a financial burden to them and subsequently to the other members of US society who end up paying those uninsured patients expenses through increased hospital and doctor rates as well as tax payments to the US government.

Medical care in the US is very expensive (but that is another debate) costing an average of around $10,000 per person per year. But it is what it is. One must pay it one way or the the other. Buy insurance or pay for it out of your own pocket as expenses are incurred. Or, do neither and let the rest of society pay for your medical costs. Again, nothing against Matt Day personally, but that is the situation here.
Dear Bob,

Para 1: To everyone who can afford it. And subject to deductibles: the first few thousand per year is likely to be payable even by those who are insured.

Para 3: Or can't afford to.

Para 4: And has third-world outcomes. Cuba does a LOT better.

Remember what Eisenhower said about the military-industrial complex. Most rich countries are at least as interested in the health of their citizens as in the health of arms manufacturers. The US is something of an outlier in this respect.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-20-2018
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Para 1: To everyone who can afford it. And subject to deductibles: the first few thousand per year is likely to be payable even by those who are insured.

Para 3: Or can't afford to.
Medical care is a basic cost of life just like food or housing. One must provide for it as such. If one is unable to pay the basic cost of those subsistence necessities, then government programs even in the US will provide for such. The problem is those who are unwilling to sacrifice other necessities to pay for medical.

Medical care in other countries which have socialized medical programs and also paid by citizens, just involuntarily, through taxes. Hopefully no one thinks there is some mythical charitable entity called "the government" that pays their medical costs so they do not have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Para 4: And has third-world outcomes. Cuba does a LOT better.
There are no third world countries scoring higher than the US on the lists you reference.

I will certainly disagree with your statement that "Cuba does a LOT better" as I live in both countries. That is from first hand experience. Cuba's medical system is based on having a large number of doctors. Possible because with last year's pay raise, doctors in Cuba make the equivalent of $48 per month. That is possible only because others make $25 a month. My Cubana significant other's doctor does not even have a sphygmomanometer to measure her blood pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Remember what Eisenhower said about the military-industrial complex. Most rich countries are at least as interested in the health of their citizens as in the health of arms manufacturers. The US is something of an outlier in this respect.
I must agree with you on this point. Sadly, the current situation is the desire of the majority of the US people.
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old 07-20-2018
Hogarth Ferguson
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Originally Posted by bushwick1234 View Post
Answer is: NO, thanks to Obamacare (aka Mitt Romney’s health care reform in Massachusetts).
Thanks to Obamacare things are no longer covered? What a confusing and incorrect statement.
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old 07-20-2018
bushwick1234
Registered User
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Originally Posted by Hogarth Ferguson View Post
Thanks to Obamacare things are no longer covered? What a confusing and incorrect statement.
Sorry, wasn't angel Obama the one who sold out healthcare to the insurance companies, it was the bad, ugly guys, the Republicans.
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old 07-21-2018
Doug
Moderator
Please try to avoid partisan politics in the forum discussions...
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old 07-21-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
Medical care is a basic cost of life just like food or housing. ... . .
Dear Bob,

So are defence, police and roads and we don't have to pay for them individually according to usage. Most rich countries regard health as falling into the same category, also recognizing the principle of community and indeed insurance. Some are lucky and need very little care. Others are unlucky and need a lot. The US system is a tax on bad luck.

Cuba infant/child mortality (below age 5) and life expectancy as compared with the US? See here.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-21-2018
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
So are defence, police and roads and we don't have to pay for them individually according to usage. Most rich countries regard health as falling into the same category, also recognizing the principle of community and indeed insurance. Some are lucky and need very little care. Others are unlucky and need a lot. The US system is a tax on bad luck.
Roger, you are in favor of socialized medical care. Many are. But the US voters speak at the ballot box and the majority opinion differs from yours. BTW, I am frequently in the minority opinion these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Cuba infant/child mortality (below age 5) and life expectancy as compared with the US? See here.
I am quite knowledgeable about those statistics and the underlying factors. Both from an academic / statistical level as well as personal experience. One must realize the child mortality stats in Cuba are influenced by the propensity to simply abort any pregnancy with indications of future problems. The life expectancy stats are substantially influenced by the presence / absence of lifestyle diseases such as substance abuse, obesity and lack of exercise. This is an area where the Cuban economic problems have real health benefits.
Those factors overcome much of the problems with the Cuban medical system. Sadly, I am too aware of these problems through the cancer death of an ex- girlfriend and death from cardiac problems with the 5 year old nephew of my Cubana significant other. I am confident both would be alive and well today with US medical care.
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old 07-21-2018
Sumarongi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
I am quite knowledgeable about those statistics and the underlying factors. Both from an academic / statistical level as well as personal experience. One must realize the child mortality stats in Cuba are influenced by the propensity to simply abort any pregnancy with indications of future problems. The life expectancy stats are substantially influenced by the presence / absence of lifestyle diseases such as substance abuse, obesity and lack of exercise. [...]
I guess, the *Maternal mortality ratio (modeled estimate, per 100,000 live births)* has some more significance:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...igh_desc=false

If I'm reading correctly, the USA are ... well, behind *all* Western European countries, and even behind several Central European countries (former Eastern bloc countries) ...
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old 07-21-2018
Mjd-djm
Registered User
Hang on... so someone spends all of their cash on everything but health insurance, then gets sick and can’t pay. So he starts a go fund me, comes out of hospital and still has all the great stuff he bought before. Doesn’t seem right to me. I remember a while back a photographer on Flickr, who owned Nikon DSLR gear including pro primes etc, had their gear stolen from their house, but didn’t have home insurance. So they started a gofundme page for $10k and hit the target. Really bothered me that I couldn’t ever imagine affording that gear at the time and this person was getting $10k worth of free gear despite having done something ridiculously dumb. Am I just being a grump here? But I wouldn’t expect anyone to bail me out... I make sure I look after my family so no one else has to.
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old 07-21-2018
Roger Hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
I guess, the *Maternal mortality ratio (modeled estimate, per 100,000 live births)* has some more significance:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...igh_desc=false

If I'm reading correctly, the USA are ... well, behind *all* Western European countries, and even behind several Central European countries (former Eastern bloc countries) ...
Interesting figures: thanks. Raises two questions:

First, why are the figures not only high but increasing?

Second, why is the USA pretty much alone among rich countries in rejecting some form of national health service?

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-21-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Hang on... so someone spends all of their cash on everything but health insurance, then gets sick and can’t pay. So he starts a go fund me, comes out of hospital and still has all the great stuff he bought before. Doesn’t seem right to me. I remember a while back a photographer on Flickr, who owned Nikon DSLR gear including pro primes etc, had their gear stolen from their house, but didn’t have home insurance. So they started a gofundme page for $10k and hit the target. Really bothered me that I couldn’t ever imagine affording that gear at the time and this person was getting $10k worth of free gear despite having done something ridiculously dumb. Am I just being a grump here? But I wouldn’t expect anyone to bail me out... I make sure I look after my family so no one else has to.
You're in the UK, where there's a national health service. Are you saying it should be privatized?

Only the extreme right in the UK believes that, and even they pay lip service to the NHS.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-21-2018
valdas
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post

If I'm reading correctly, the USA are ... well, behind *all* Western European countries, and even behind several Central European countries (former Eastern bloc countries) ...
Not "several Central European countries", but most of them... From new EU members only Hungary, Romania and Latvia are below US"...
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old 07-21-2018
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Hang on... so someone spends all of their cash on everything but health insurance, then gets sick and can’t pay. So he starts a go fund me, comes out of hospital and still has all the great stuff he bought before. Doesn’t seem right to me. .....................
Let me give a real life recent US example. My youngest sister, age 64 has a nice house, reasonably new car, lives frugally, and works part time for a small town dentist who does not provide an opportunity to purchase medical insurance. She pays about $5,000 for a private lowest cost medical insurance policy. It is lowest cost because it has a $5,000 deductible, meaning she pays 100% of her everyday medical costs and has coverage only for a disaster.

Sister has a co-worker in a similar situation who decided she did not want to pay for medical insurance because of the cost. Co-worker has just been diagnosed with cancer and is looking at out of pocket medical cost exceeding $100,000.

Sister has called me seeking my opinion about her dilemma about being asked to contribute to help pay her co-worker's uninsured medical cost. Sister has a real problem giving her limited hard earned money to help out someone who lived better because she would not sacrifice to buy insurance, as sister did, to avoid this problem.
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old 07-21-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
Let me give a real life recent US example. My youngest sister, age 64 has a nice house, reasonably new car, lives frugally, and works part time for a small town dentist who does not provide an opportunity to purchase medical insurance. She pays about $5,000 for a private lowest cost medical insurance policy. It is lowest cost because it has a $5,000 deductible, meaning she pays 100% of her everyday medical costs and has coverage only for a disaster.

Sister has a co-worker in a similar situation who decided she did not want to pay for medical insurance because of the cost. Co-worker has just been diagnosed with cancer and is looking at out of pocket medical cost exceeding $100,000.

Sister has called me seeking my opinion about her dilemma about being asked to contribute to help pay her co-worker's uninsured medical cost. Sister has a real problem giving her limited hard earned money to help out someone who lived better because she would not sacrifice to buy insurance, as sister did, to avoid this problem.
Dear Bob,

So your younger sister is paying, in effect, $10,000 a year: $5000 premiums + $5000 in everyday medical bills. As you well know, $5000 in medical bills doesn't take long to accumulate: some 25-30 years ago I ran up a $1400 bill in a few hours for diagnosis of a kidney stone.

There are plenty of people who simply can't afford $10,000 a year for medical insurance, and who don't have a "nice house and a reasonably new car". What should they do? Slope off quietly and die? Presumably, given the statistics, quite a few have no other choice.

Another case study: a friend of my wife's, in California, maybe 35 years ago. She was dying of cancer. Advice from the doctor to Frances's friend: "Bring her home to die. Otherwise the end of life care in hospital will cost you your house." Do you believe it would be better now?

A decent National Health Service would remove the problem for everyone. Refusing to admit the existence of society -- of our collective responsibility for one another -- means, for example, that someone should be able to say, "I don't have children, so I'm not going to pay for schools" or "I've got my own gun so I'm not going to pay for the armed forces."

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-21-2018
Paul T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Am I just being a grump here? But I wouldn’t expect anyone to bail me out... I make sure I look after my family so no one else has to.

I'm kind of sorry I raised this issue. It's a political one; but it's a human one.

It's bloody awful. I think of my friends that Ive sent money to, how humiliating it is to ask for money merely to survive. In the cases I know of, they were all creatives - it's actually not that easy to get any kind of coverage if that's your line of work.

Maybe I'm old fashioned. when it comes to health I'm a herd animal. We should be looking after the collective. It makes way more sense.As an american once said, we must all hang together, otherwise we will most assuredly hang separately.
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old 07-21-2018
Sumarongi
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Interesting figures: thanks. Raises two questions:

First, why are the figures not only high but increasing?

Second, why is the USA pretty much alone among rich countries in rejecting some form of national health service?

Cheers,

R.
Dear Roger,

well, in developed countries, I can imagine two reasons that are probably the most important:

1. Due to economic insecurity, many women -- particularly those who have an academic degree -- delay their first pregnancy until it's, well, very very late, and it's a not just a so called risk pregnancy, it *is* a risk pregnancy.

2. Independently what kind of health insurance system prevails: The persons who make the expenditure decisions, are there young fertile women among them? Nope, most of them are evil old (predominantly white) MEN. Men who find it much more important that health insurance covers these certain blue or yellow pills for said evil old men, y'know, these certain pills are much more important than say ultra-sound examinations for pregnant women...
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old 07-21-2018
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
So your younger sister is paying, in effect, $10,000 a year: $5000 premiums + $5000 in everyday medical bills. As you well know, $5000 in medical bills doesn't take long to accumulate:
She does pay less than that because the $5,000 is a maximum she would ever have to pay out of pocket and her actual out of pocket are less. The reality is that modern day health care is expensive and someone has to pay it one way or another. There ain't no free lunch or fairy godmother to pay. Citizens pay one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
There are plenty of people who simply can't afford $10,000 a year for medical insurance, and who don't have a "nice house and a reasonably new car". What should they do? Slope off quietly and die?
That is why the US has programs such as Medicaid to pay medical costs for those unable to pay. Of course there is a difference between being unable to pay and those unwilling to use their assets to pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
A decent National Health Service would remove the problem for everyone.
Roger, we totally understand you are in favor of socialized medicine. You must understand the citizens of the US have rejected such at the ballot box.
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old 07-21-2018
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
Medical care is a basic cost of life just like food or housing. One must provide for it as such. If one is unable to pay the basic cost of those subsistence necessities, then government programs even in the US will provide for such. The problem is those who are unwilling to sacrifice other necessities to pay for medical.
No, Bob, they won't. The government doesn't provide a damned thing to the poor here. In most states, only single mothers and children can get medicaid. The single moms only get it during their pregnancy and are dropped when they give birth, and the children are dropped when they turn 18 unless they're severely physically or mentally disabled. For the non-Americans here, Medicaid is the free healthcare for the poor.

The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) suggested, but did not require, that the states should expand Medicaid coverage to poor adults, but many, including mine, refused.

I have tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills I will never, ever be able to pay. Even after a stroke, I didn't qualify for any government help. I don't have, and never will have, insurance. It would cost me over $1000 a month, which is more than I earn. The ACA doesn't actually require everyone to have insurance; it exempts those too poor to pay for it, like me.
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old 07-21-2018
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Hang on... so someone spends all of their cash on everything but health insurance, then gets sick and can’t pay. So he starts a go fund me, comes out of hospital and still has all the great stuff he bought before. Doesn’t seem right to me. I remember a while back a photographer on Flickr, who owned Nikon DSLR gear including pro primes etc, had their gear stolen from their house, but didn’t have home insurance. So they started a gofundme page for $10k and hit the target. Really bothered me that I couldn’t ever imagine affording that gear at the time and this person was getting $10k worth of free gear despite having done something ridiculously dumb. Am I just being a grump here? But I wouldn’t expect anyone to bail me out... I make sure I look after my family so no one else has to.
What makes me feel sad is that if the same thing happened to a less famous person, then he or she probably can't raise such a big amount of money by online donation. However being less famous does not mean making less contributions to the Internet/world, and I'm sure a lot of people who contributed a lot to Internet/world just died quietly in similar situations.

I would sell any expensive gears that are not essential(in this case of life and death they are all not!) in the first place to support me and my families if such crisis happened. Asking donations online is the last resort, I guess for all less famous people like most of us.
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old 07-22-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
She does pay less than that because the $5,000 is a maximum she would ever have to pay out of pocket and her actual out of pocket are less. The reality is that modern day health care is expensive and someone has to pay it one way or another. There ain't no free lunch or fairy godmother to pay. Citizens pay one way or the other.

. . . You must understand the citizens of the US have rejected such at the ballot box.
Dear Bob,

Para 1: Until anything remotely serious happens. I never spent a day in hospital between 1953 and 2009. In 2009 I needed my appendix out.

Para 2: What, all of them? They voted for third world maternal mortality rates? It was on the ballot? According to this source, 60% of Americans think that it IS the responsibility of government to ensure health care for all Americans. This source says that "a slim majority" supports single-payer. And here are some Trump voters who support universal healthcare.

Let's be more accurate. US voters have historically supported parties which are against universal health care, or which are in thrall to rich donors including insurance companies, but this opposition is a small part of a package which includes immigration control, the old pin-up girl Laura Norder, and much else. This is not a party political issue.

Elsewhere in the rich world, it isn't a party political issue either. Nationalized health care (I accept that some Americans use "socialized" as a synonym for "the work of the devil") is taken for granted by all but the far right. Why are Americans different? Are they in fact different? The links above suggest not. So do posts here from Chris Crawford and Sumarongi.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-22-2018
Roger Hicks
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul T. View Post
I'm kind of sorry I raised this issue. It's a political one; but it's a human one.

It's bloody awful. I think of my friends that Ive sent money to, how humiliating it is to ask for money merely to survive. In the cases I know of, they were all creatives - it's actually not that easy to get any kind of coverage if that's your line of work.

Maybe I'm old fashioned. when it comes to health I'm a herd animal. We should be looking after the collective. It makes way more sense.As an american once said, we must all hang together, otherwise we will most assuredly hang separately.
Dear Paul,

But yeah, you know, he's so out of date. Never mind the fact that he was a genius in multiple fields.

Cheers,

R.
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old 07-22-2018
BLKRCAT
99% Film
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Hang on... so someone spends all of their cash on everything but health insurance, then gets sick and can’t pay. So he starts a go fund me, comes out of hospital and still has all the great stuff he bought before. Doesn’t seem right to me....snip...Am I just being a grump here? But I wouldn’t expect anyone to bail me out... I make sure I look after my family so no one else has to.
So this is kind of what I was getting at. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't making assumptions about the US healthcare system.

I don't mean any bad wishes towards Matt. I hope he makes a speedy recovery but personally I think that having some insurance coverage, even like the one that Bob mentions would be on my priority list.

I'm less than 30, I own a detatched house in Toronto, 2 cars, I have my life insurance set up to keep my family covered in case of an emergency, financial plan set up for retirement etc. I didn't come from a rich family and I worked for everything I have, I pay my bills and have no debt other than the house and a car loan. I like to think that I have my ducks in a row.

For someone roughly the same age as me living what seems like a similar life be faced with such a daunting financial hurdle doesn't make sense to me. Especially when it comes down insurance for something that could destroy everything you've worked for your entire life in the case of an emergency.

If he didn't have any notoriety or online presence he would be boned and I'm sure this situation is a common occurrence in the US. I can only try to sympathize because the financial toll is almost incomprehensible to me.
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old 07-22-2018
sjones
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One’s life is not a frivolous commodity or even a vital utility to be sold and traded. Life transcends the material dynamic, and to treat it like pig bellies or a new television is repugnant.

But even more repugnant is when people living in the one of the world’s wealthiest countries are forced to choose between adequate nutrition or healthcare for their children, because access to effective insurance is handled like access to a Mercedes Benz.

Worse yet is the crass commodification of life itself amidst growing income disparities, ensuring that one’s worth as a human becomes increasingly dependent on their bank account and nothing much else.

And while Obamacare was highly flawed in some respects (hard to hold constructive debate and implement needed revisions when the main detractors are screaming “worse than slavery”, “Armageddon”, and “death of freedom”), it at least eliminated certain inhumane deficiencies such as coverage limits and denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions. Still, bankruptcies occur frequently even for people WITH insurance, while unnecessary deaths continue based on nothing more than personal finance.

If one wants to blame someone for not buying insurance, that they somehow deserve to die because of this, go ahead with this Darwinistic reasoning, but whatever credibility this argument might possibly possess quickly falls flat when dealing with children who suffer inadequate health coverage.

And by the way, for those just concerned about profit (i.e., the corporate plutocracy that shapes much of the country’s polity), a healthy public is good for productivity, meaning that there is, in terms of capitalistic interests, a lucrative benefit to ensuring that labor is healthy.

If one can defend sizable expenditures on defense but treat life like a nonessential product (which ironically undermines the relevance of security itself), then one might want to reevaluate their ethical priorities. But the horrors of socialism! Yeah, about this, the quintessential socialist country North Korea spends more money on which, the military or healthcare? See how that works. One person’s socialism is another person’s great investment potential in defense contractors.

Our previous system was inarguably immoral, and despite needed reforms under Obamacare, the overall system still remains inexcusably unjust.

Good day, y’all. I’m out to make some wet prints…
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old 07-22-2018
Roger Hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
Dear Roger,

well, in developed countries, I can imagine two reasons that are probably the most important:

1. Due to economic insecurity, many women -- particularly those who have an academic degree -- delay their first pregnancy until it's, well, very very late, and it's a not just a so called risk pregnancy, it *is* a risk pregnancy.

2. Independently what kind of health insurance system prevails: The persons who make the expenditure decisions, are there young fertile women among them? Nope, most of them are evil old (predominantly white) MEN. Men who find it much more important that health insurance covers these certain blue or yellow pills for said evil old men, y'know, these certain pills are much more important than say ultra-sound examinations for pregnant women...
Or to borrow Frances's variation on the Red Flag, instead of

The People's Flag is deepest red,
Stained with blood our fathers shed

she suggested

The People's Flag is deepest red,
Stained with blood our mothers shed

Cheers,

R.
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