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old 10-19-2019
retinax
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by semi-ambivalent View Post
The retail price will not go up 25% because Leica will lower the wholesale cost to offset some of the increase. In the 1980s the Mark soared against the US Dollar but the price of a Mercedes in the U.S. barely budged. MB was able to just eat a lot of the cost increase because their markup was so high to begin with.
Agreed. I guess they must have higher markups now in many US states compared to Europe because they price differences don't reflect the differences in sales tax, I think (too lazy to verify, but that seems to be the case for many products).

Quote:
Originally Posted by semi-ambivalent View Post
This is how it works out when you've given away your country's production to other countries; America's biggest export product is now our consumption.
Imports is an export? Are you sure? I get what you mean. There is demand for demand.
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old 10-19-2019
james.liam
Registered User
“Introducing the Leica Q-J, ’Made in Germany Not Really’ and shipped Direct from the Bavarian Quarter of Panasonic’s Yokahama City Headquarters”.
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old 10-19-2019
Guth
Observational Documenter
Does anyone happen know what percentage of Leica lenses are actually currently manufactured in Portugal? They would seemingly not be impacted by price hikes related to the tariffs on German-made goods of note.
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old 10-19-2019
pedaes
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guth View Post
Does anyone happen know what percentage of Leica lenses are actually currently manufactured in Portugal? They would seemingly not be impacted by price hikes related to the tariffs on German-made goods of note.
Portugal is in the EU, and it is a EU Tariff
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old 10-19-2019
james.liam
Registered User
Leica of Liechtenstein.
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old 10-19-2019
Guth
Observational Documenter
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedaes View Post
Portugal is in the EU, and it is a EU Tariff
Yes, but in the original post there was a link to information that included a detailed PDF showing what items from each country were going to be impacted. The products that are impacted by these tariffs varies greatly from one EU country to the next. If I am reading that information correctly it appears that the only items produced in Portugal that are going to be impacted are food related items. Nothing about optics was mentioned when it came to Portugal whereas Germany was called out specifically for such items.
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old 10-19-2019
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Is this a sign
from above to buy Japanese cameras and lenses?
AND... Japanese whiskey is pretty good too.
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old 10-20-2019
CameraQuest
Head Bartender
it will be interesting how Leica adapts to to the tariff -

OK, a 25% higher markup at customs based upon factory cost

How much if any will Leica absorb to make the pain easier to customers?

That 25% increased wholesale cost won't likely mean a 25% retail increase, but it will likely mean an increase.
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old 10-20-2019
Archlich
Registered User
Maybe they'll have it the way the president wants, getting everything Made in the USA?
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old 10-20-2019
valdas
Registered User
I did not read all regulations in details, but wondering how does it work for personal transactions on second hand market - do you, in US, have to pay any tax on items in scope if you buy from ebay in an EU country or RFF ads?
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old 10-21-2019
Chuck Albertson
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Murphy View Post
The real craziness of this is, if I understand it correctly, is that both sides have been found to subsidize their aerospace monopolies. From what I have read over the years this is pretty obvious too. The result is now that both sides will levy tariffs on many consumer goods, in general denial of reality, with the population at large paying the price (a lot like a "real war").
The US lost a WTO case on subsidies paid to Boeing (for the hefty tax breaks my home state grants to Boeing, who threatens to move their factories elsewhere), but any tariffs the EU levy in retaliation don't kick in until early next year - that proceeding is simply on a later timeline. It would be nice if both sides would agree to net out the competing tariffs and drop the whole matter.
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old 10-21-2019
Chuck Albertson
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
How else do you propose pressuring the EU to mend its corporatist ways? They’ve had a pass on everything since VE Day.

Ever see how large Airbus is assembled? Instead of a single large plant, massive sections and components are transported by plane, train, barge and truck from all across Western Europe to Toulouse for final assembly. Very “green”. And heavily subsidized.
Boeing is no different. Depending on the type, fuselages come to the Seattle assembly plant by rail from Wichita (737) or by Dreamlifter (pregnant 747) from Charleston, S.C. (where they also do final assembly of some of the 787s), wings flown in by Dreamlifter from China or Japan. It's been that way for years.
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old 10-21-2019
Chuck Albertson
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedaes View Post
Portugal is in the EU, and it is a EU Tariff
The tariff for lenses is specific to lenses manufactured in Germany, not the EU in general.
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old 10-21-2019
james.liam
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Albertson View Post
The tariff for lenses is specific to lenses manufactured in Germany, not the EU in general.
'Made in Portugal' will seem all that more appealing for the Wetzlar Krew.
No like they REALLY assemble many lenses in Wetzlar nowadays. Probably the exotics that are priced in the stratosphere.

The rest? After the long truck drive from north of (O)Porto, an inspection, polish and into the box.

And, my near-new R8 says 'Made in Portugal' right on it. I love it no less.
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old 10-21-2019
Huss
Registered User
Leica's best selling kamera is a film kamera and it is made in China. So they are already dealing with tariffs and have not increased the price on that.
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old 10-21-2019
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Leica's best selling kamera is a film kamera and it is made in China.
Is it long weekend in California?
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old 10-21-2019
Huss
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Is it long weekend in California?
Kalifornia
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old 10-21-2019
Chuck Albertson
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
'Made in Portugal' will seem all that more appealing for the Wetzlar Krew.
No like they REALLY assemble many lenses in Wetzlar nowadays. Probably the exotics that are priced in the stratosphere.
Yes, they really do. M, S, SL, the lot. Grinding, polishing, a bit of black paint on the rim of the elements to cut down on reflections, assembly, centering, QA/QC, etc. It's worth a visit to the mothership to watch it done. They could try to slap a "Made in Portugal" label on a Wetzlar product, but likely wouldn't get away with it for long - the Customs people wouldn't be fooled.
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old 10-21-2019
CameraQuest
Head Bartender
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Leica's best selling kamera is a film kamera and it is made in China. .
???

What is your source on that?

Mixing instant cameras into the discussion ?
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old 10-21-2019
james.liam
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Kalifornia
Peeplz Republik of Kalifornia
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old 10-21-2019
Huss
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
???

What is your source on that?

Mixing instant cameras into the discussion ?
Yep the Fuji Sofort is Leica’s best selling kamera by far.

How is that surprising?
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old 10-21-2019
james.liam
Registered User
Unklear whether this is akkurate, but PhotoRumors said that there'll be a 25% price increase on Leica lenses (!!!!), come 1 November.

Happily have all the current M glass I'll ever need.
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old 10-21-2019
Huss
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
Unklear whether this is akkurate, but PhotoRumors said that there'll be a 25% price increase on Leica lenses (!!!!),.
It’s ok I just asked my boss for a 25% pay raise and I’m pretty sure his laughter meant yes.
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old 10-21-2019
too funny!
CaptMatt
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
What a fortuitous turn for the UK! After Brexit we will have access to a myriad of low tariff high quality British made tech products.
too funny! We have the same deal in USA!
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old 10-22-2019
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
Unklear whether this is akkurate, but PhotoRumors said that there'll be a 25% price increase on Leica lenses (!!!!), come 1 November.

Happily have all the current M glass I'll ever need.
James,

Recently I used the plastic card with the "magic numbers" to purchase an APO 35 Cron-L that cost $4595.00 (free shipping). The 25% tariff, if the November 1st rumor is true, means $1148.75 premium on $4595.00 for a total of $5743.75.

My APO 35 Cron is still in the phase where availability is limited and there are still waiting lists. I imagine now a race for buyers and a rush/scramble for the remaining limited supply.

I feel I'm a lucky guy at this point.

Cal
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old 10-23-2019
Chuck Albertson
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
If you buy a Leica new in Germany and then return to the USA, will there be next a customs checking to pay the 25% tariff? Just a curious question ....
If you take a look at the Customs declaration that you have to fill out when arriving in the US (regardless of nationality), you're obliged to declare goods purchased abroad totaling more than a standard exemption (I think that amount is currently $800). Same applies if you're in Global Entry. So, the answer to your question is yes.

Last year, I brought back a batt grip and a spare batt for the SL, which added up to more than $800, and declared the lot - they just waved me through. I think the duty at the time on the amount above the exemption probably wasn't worth the bother. I doubt that would happen if I turned up today with an SL lens that I bought in the EU or elsewhere.
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old 10-31-2019
Olsen
Registered User
No! Do as we Europeans have done for ages: Buy expensive camera equipment (watches, jewlery etc.) at tax havens. Like Hong Kong, Singapore, Abu Dhabi etc.
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old 10-31-2019
Olsen
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by semi-ambivalent View Post
The retail price will not go up 25% because Leica will lower the wholesale cost to offset some of the increase. In the 1980s the Mark soared against the US Dollar but the price of a Mercedes in the U.S. barely budged. MB was able to just eat a lot of the cost increase because their markup was so high to begin with.

This is how it works out when you've given away your country's production to other countries; America's biggest export product is now our consumption. That's valuable and the idea is to make other countries pay a higher price for that product, just like the price going up for any desirable product. Market demand. Companies can eat some or all of that increase or pass some or all of it on to their customers. Customers do have a say in this you know.

The issue here is talking Leica when the real problem was thousands of, for example, well-paying textile jobs in North Carolina, being sent to horrific sweatshops in China (then Malaysia, then Cambodia, then Viet Nam, always chasing lower costs), because Joe Blow wants to save $3.00 on a pair of $50.00 trousers. Other countries do this too and you'd admit it if you were being honest with yourself, but the US is big and "wealthy" so it's more visible with us. Things like German cameras made in Portugal, and whisky made in Scotland are marquee items so they make for good headlines in less than objective news rags.

It's what you get with Keynesian economics and it's sad that so many people in lots of countries just don't understand things unless they're really simple concepts. People could boycott those products but consumers everywhere are so spoiled they just can't say no. Brats. The higher prices are also a reflection of your ever more worthless currencies. Dollars, Euros, Francs. It doesn't matter which anymore. Every government wants their currency to be the cheapest because it helps their exports. Think about the logic of that...

"...and all the children are above average."
It was much easier for Mercedes to compensate for a fall of the US Dollar, which happens every so often. Because Mercedes already paid much of their suppliers (steel, electronics, rubber etc.) in US Dollars. To 'hedge' for a tariff of 25% is impossible for a small company as Leica. Sales prices have to be increased accordingly - or very close.

It was you, the US, who started it. The European Union (my country, Norway is not an EU member, thanks God) retaliated by imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motor cycles. Tit fot tat. This is not the end of it.
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old 10-31-2019
ChipMcD
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
If you buy a Leica new in Germany and then return to the USA, will there be next a customs checking to pay the 25% tariff? Just a curious question ....

You'll pay customs duty unless you can show that you registered your Leica with US Customs on the way out of the country. You can do that at any customs office. If you buy it in Germany, you'll need to list it on the customs form passed out on the plane on the way home.
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old 10-31-2019
ktmrider
Registered User
As a retired Customs pilot and frequent international traveler, I must say that the chances of US Customs collecting duty on an undeclared camera are pretty slim. Of course, I am not saying break the law but ???. In the last ten years I have traveled frequently beyond the borders of the US and I have NEVER been inspected upon returning to the US.
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old 10-31-2019
Huss
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipMcD View Post
You'll pay customs duty unless you can show that you registered your Leica with US Customs on the way out of the country. You can do that at any customs office. If you buy it in Germany, you'll need to list it on the customs form passed out on the plane on the way home.
They don't pass out customs forms anymore.
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old 11-01-2019
ktmrider
Registered User
Huss: That is because you fill out the form electronically at the airport upon arrival. And for those that do not know, the Global Entry Program is just an expedited way to get through the lines. However, it also gives you pre-clearance with TSA so it may be worth the initial fees.
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old 11-26-2019
Update
CameraQuest
Head Bartender
Leica USA did increase wholesale prices on most lenses about 20%

Generally dealers are doing the best they can to delay passing on these increases to the customer.

It remains to be seen how long the tariff will remain in place.

However if the tariff remains in place, its only a matter of time until dealers run out out of pre-tariff lenses and are forced to pass on the increase.

Stephen
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old 11-26-2019
raid
Dad Photographer
Are cameras "safe" from such a tariff?
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old 11-26-2019
ktmrider
Registered User
I believe anything made or sold by a European company is subject to the tariffs.

Of course, if the president gets impeached or voted out of office in 2020, free trade would go back to normal. I am really glad he is protecting the US camera and lens manufacturers from insidious Asian and European competition.
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old 11-26-2019
BillBlackwell
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Are cameras "safe" from such a tariff?
I don't think so, but regardless, I have it on good authority a substantial price increase on both Leica film and digital cameras is coming very soon!
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old 11-26-2019
BillBingham2
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Are cameras "safe" from such a tariff?
Nothing is safe!!!

I often wonder if you declare lenses by their length and aperture without the mfg, gave the older ones away to a GoodWill sort of organization and brought home new glass (say Leica) my guess is that you would get waved through.

Just a thought.

Not B2 (;-????
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old 11-27-2019
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
Leica USA did increase wholesale prices on most lenses about 20%

Generally dealers are doing the best they can do delay passing on these increases to the customer.

It remains to be seen how long the tariff will remain in place.

However if the tariff remains in place, its only a matter of time until dealers run out out of pre-tariff lenses and are forced to pass on the increase.

Stephen
I read on the Leica Forum about a guy who "locked-in" the pre tariff price on an APO 35 Cron like mine at $4495.00 from Adorama. They say they will honor that price since it was "backordered" and is not in stock.

The new price is $5695.00, a difference of $1.2K. Ouch.

Mucho glad I bought mine at the "old" price.

I wonder if I need to "Preorder" a SL2 now to lock-down the pre tarrif pricing. Would hate to pay an extra $1.5K. I think I will call my dealer today.

Cal
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old 11-27-2019
MCTuomey
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
AND... Japanese whiskey is pretty good too.
I'll second that ... pricey versus U.S. rye but very good, yes.
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old 11-27-2019
MCTuomey
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrider View Post
I believe anything made or sold by a European company is subject to the tariffs.

Of course, if the president gets impeached or voted out of office in 2020, free trade would go back to normal. I am really glad he is protecting the US camera and lens manufacturers from insidious Asian and European competition.
Good one. Is the Donald still insisting the manufacturers are footing the bill? I am out of touch, resolutely ignoring most of the inflamed U.S. press. Should I send a bill to the Oval Office to recover the increased cost of my tariffed gear?
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