high end x-pro1?

aleksanderpolo said:
high end? A $1700 APSC body in 2012 is not high end enough? O, maybe a silver "limited edition" ;)
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Ever seen Nikon D800 prices? that used to be the price of the top of the line D2X when they came out a couple of years ago. Even the lowly D3200 is $700. All i could conclude is since the Xpro1 is the new mid range i have effectively gotten poorer the more advanced my degrees have gotten.....:bang:
 
if fuji would bring out this X-Pro FFM, with the same quality sensor (only FF and better adapted to m-lenses), M-mount, focus confirmation and/or even rangefinder coupling, with less 1st generation quirks, for lets say $2500 - $3000, who else would buy a new m10 for $8000 or a second hand m9 for $4500 than dentists++ or people who need to be part of the red dot crowd at all costs
i know there are many photographers with one or more m-lenses on the shelves or on their m2-m9 waiting for this and wanting to pay a decent price
i think camera's are finally more profitable than lenses, the life expectancy of a digital camera is 3-5 years, life expectancy of a lens can be a (human) lifetime, so they could sell this camera even without producing a line of lenses and instead of lenses produce a line of intelligent (patented) adapters for all kinds of mounts able to communicate with the software in the camera


cheers,
sam
 
samuco said:
if fuji would bring out this X-Pro FFM, with the same quality sensor (only FF and better adapted to m-lenses), M-mount, focus confirmation and/or even rangefinder coupling, with less 1st generation quirks, for lets say $2500 - $3000, who else would buy a new m10 for $8000 or a second hand m9 for $4500 than dentists++ or people who need to be part of the red dot crowd at all costs
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Why would Fuji bring out a purely M mount camera though? Isn't this just RFF fantasy stuff?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it... I just cannot get my head around Fuji making a FF camera so people can use Leica M lenses instead of X lenses.
 
jsrockit said:
Why would Fuji bring out a purely M mount camera though? Isn't this just RFF fantasy stuff?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it... I just cannot get my head around Fuji making a FF camera so people can use Leica M lenses instead of X lenses.
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Exactly, Fuji's sensor isn't even optimized for the use of M lenses.

Well, they might be planning for a higher end APSC camera, but I wonder how many of the current or potential XP1 user is willing to pay even more for that model (a potential vote or show of hand maybe?). If XP1 is selling like hot cake like the EM-5 does, maybe there is still room for higher price high end model. But with the second-hand price of XP1 staying at around $1200 currently, I think they will need to lower the price of XP1 if they really have a higher end model.

When D300S came out, it was retailing for $1700 if I am not mistaken? I think that is probably the highest end price for APSC, and the FF D600 is rumored to be ~$1600-1700ish...

And no, Fuji is not Leica. Not even Zeiss is able to command a 50% Leica price, so let's be realistic. ;)
 
you are right jsrockit, it stays RFF fantasy as long as we cannot lay our hands on it

it could make sense (= be profitable) to make a FF M-mount digital camera because there is no competition in the price range of 2500-3000 and because of the short life cycle - people buy new body's every 3-4 years and keep their old lenses
a problem would be the fact that they could only offer manual focus, but this is a given for all m-mount camera's
they have the technology, they did the research, they have the body, the biggest problem will be to optimize the sensor, but the results can be spectacular, imagine the same sensor, only FF and optimized, who could resist this camera?
and do they not also make lenses for body's of a different brand? after the camera has proven to sell, they can always decide to make a a few af lenses



and alexanderpolo, high end still means FF and a native m-mount would mean being optimized for m-lenses - the aim will not be the current or potential xp1 users but photographers who are slightly disappointed with the xp1 and are willing to pay a higher price or leica owners/potential leica buyers who cannot afford the outrageous prices of a m9 or a future m10 - there is still a huge gap between the price of a xp1 and a m9

no, fuji is no leica, i love to hold my m-camera's, but there is a turning point that has to do with with price, ease and 'quality' of use and last but not least image quality - fuji might not be able to ask 50% of the leica price, but times will turn when they can offer 100% (or more) of leica image quality with help of leica lenses - what is still at the center of the specific leica quality is the leica lense for which any sensor has to be optimized


sam
 
jsrockit said:
Which recent cameras have had a true lack of quality?
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It depends on how you define quality, perhaps.

I'm not that familiar with digital cameras in general, but I did buy an X-Pro 1, so I'm somewhat familiar with that one. The overall quality of the camera and its image capturing capability is high. I'm basically satisfied with mine. However, it had a few too many loose ends at release that I think reflect quality issues.

For example, the framelines in the OVF are not especially accurate on the X-Pro 1. Autofocusing, especially with the 60mm lens, is slow and it hunts a lot. The video capabilities of the camera seem to be thrown in as an afterthought. There isn't even an external microphone jack. Why bother burdening the camera and my pocketbook with such an ill-conceived and poorly executed frill that can't be put to any serious use? Plus any fault or shortcoming that someone asserts "could easily be fixed in a firmware update" is evidence of a rush to market with trailing loose ends.

I'm sure some people would not consider these faults to be evidence of poor quality, but it's a matter of perspective, certainly.
 
Lets get one thing straight - the rumor on the linked website didn't mention anything about the high end model being full frame or M mount - that was the OPs wishes and desires. You can bet they won't go past aps-c size for this series of cameras as the lenses are already designed for the aps-c size sensor!

I'd say it would be improved AF, weather sealed, higher MP - that sort of stuff.
 
loquax ludens said:
It depends on how you define quality, perhaps.

I'm not that familiar with digital cameras in general, but I did buy an X-Pro 1, so I'm somewhat familiar with that one. The overall quality of the camera and its image capturing capability is high. I'm basically satisfied with mine. However, it had a few too many loose ends at release that I think reflect quality issues.

For example, the framelines in the OVF are not especially accurate on the X-Pro 1. Autofocusing, especially with the 60mm lens, is slow and it hunts a lot. The video capabilities of the camera seem to be thrown in as an afterthought. There isn't even an external microphone jack. Why bother burdening the camera and my pocketbook with such an ill-conceived and poorly executed frill that can't be put to any serious use? Plus any fault or shortcoming that someone asserts "could easily be fixed in a firmware update" is evidence of a rush to market with trailing loose ends.

I'm sure some people would not consider these faults to be evidence of poor quality, but it's a matter of perspective, certainly.
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The video IS an afterthought on the X series cameras - it's a bonus - and I'm glad it's designed that way. I like my cameras to be cameras, personally - not half hearted camcorder hybrids.
 
gavinlg said:
The video IS an afterthought on the X series cameras - it's a bonus - and I'm glad it's designed that way. I like my cameras to be cameras, personally - not half hearted camcorder hybrids.
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Quite so. I like my still cameras to be still cameras too. Hence my consternation and annoyance. Fuji should have left the video off altogether (and saved some costs, passed on to buyers). But since they did not, they should at least have made it usable. That is certainly a quality issue with the camera.
 
Video is great to have for some people. For the rest, if it's well made, it gets out of their way. You want a still camera? Use your camera as a still camera.

I don't see why it bothers you guys so much when your camera can do something even though you're never going to use it yourself. It's like when you're not a tripod user and start complaining that it has a tripod socket.
 
rxmd said:
Video is great to have for some people. For the rest, if it's well made, it gets out of their way. You want a still camera? Use your camera as a still camera.

I don't see why it bothers you guys so much when your camera can do something even though you're never going to use it yourself. It's like when you're not a tripod user and start complaining that it has a tripod socket.
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I see it as being more like when there's a red 'record' button that's put smack bang on the top plate of a digital camera where an ISO button could be, and you can't customize it.
 
gavinlg said:
rxmd said:
loquax ludens said:
Fuji should have left the video off altogether (and saved some costs, passed on to buyers).
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Video is great to have for some people. For the rest, if it's well made, it gets out of their way. You want a still camera? Use your camera as a still camera.

I don't see why it bothers you guys so much when your camera can do something even though you're never going to use it yourself. It's like when you're not a tripod user and start complaining that it has a tripod socket.
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I see it as being more like when there's a red 'record' button that's put smack bang on the top plate of a digital camera where an ISO button could be, and you can't customize it.
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No Fuji X-series camera has this smack bang big red button though; Fuji is (note the bit I've emphasized above) a case of "it's well made".

Some people seem to get really upset about video just being there, even if the camera maker has been going out of their way to make it non-intrusive and easy to ignore. This is where the argument is no longer rational, but ideological. There are no big red buttons, nobody is being forced at gunpoint to record movies; and it's not like the $15 Fuji could have saved in engineering costs are going to entice more buyers than those who want video and would not buy a camera without it.

Maybe it's similar to the people insisting on digital cameras without a display, or advance levers, or mechanical cameras because they're battery independent, or who want their digital cameras to run on AA cells because it's an industry standard and Li-Ion cells aren't - the technical merit of all of these is usually outweighed by the ideological component.
 
From what I've read the new high end model will come in UNDER the X-Pro1, with fewer features and a lower price. Since I already have an X-Pro1 and have a lot to learn about it I don't have much interest in a new model already. Now, the new lenses — that's another situation entirely. I'm ready for the 14mm!
 
gavinlg said:
I see it as being more like when there's a red 'record' button that's put smack bang on the top plate of a digital camera where an ISO button could be, and you can't customize it.
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The xp1 and x100 thankfully does not have this problem. On the other hand, the Sony Nex cameras does. My biggest single complaint about the camera series is due to the placement of the video dedicated button and because I tend to carry camera one handed, I cannot remember the number of times I have accidentally activated video and lost a shot waiting for video file to save to flash. There are enough people who have had this problem that there is a hack about gluing a donut type rubber grommet around the button. One of the main reasons I ave moved on fron the Sony Nex series.

Gary
 
GaryLH said:
The xp1 and x100 thankfully does not have this problem. On the other hand, the Sony Nex cameras does. My biggest single complaint about the camera series is due to the placement of the video dedicated button and because I tend to carry camera one handed, I cannot remember the number of times I have accidentally activated video and lost a shot waiting for video file to save to flash. There are enough people who have had this problem that there is a hack about gluing a donut type rubber grommet around the button. One of the main reasons I ave moved on fron the Sony Nex series.

Gary
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Exactly. Video functionality compromising still camera functionality. Some of the lower model olympus Pens and panasonic m4/3s have this too. Hence I'm glad the x-pro1 and x100 have their video modes hidden away in menus with no external controls for them :)
 
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