CaptZoom
Established
Hi guys,
I've been toying around the idea of adding a P&S to my kit (M9 user). I think the only real choices are the RX100 or the Fuji XF1 (and maybe the latest Panasonic LX camera). Image quality is important to me, specifically dynamic range especially how it relates to converting color files to bw. But more important are ergonomics, customizable tactile buttons, and simply menu structure. Could you guys who've used either if these cameras talk about your experiences? Pros? Any glaring flaws?
I've been toying around the idea of adding a P&S to my kit (M9 user). I think the only real choices are the RX100 or the Fuji XF1 (and maybe the latest Panasonic LX camera). Image quality is important to me, specifically dynamic range especially how it relates to converting color files to bw. But more important are ergonomics, customizable tactile buttons, and simply menu structure. Could you guys who've used either if these cameras talk about your experiences? Pros? Any glaring flaws?
GaryLH
Mentor
Never played w/ xf1 or lx7 but owned lx3. The rx100 replaced my lx3. The biggest advantage of the LX series after the lx3.
- optional evf
Biggest advantage against the rx100 for the lx7
- starts at 24 equiv and the evf
If u normally shoot under iso 400, any of the cameras u are looking at are really good, unless u are a pixel peeper, which I am not so take what I say with grain of salt.
Size does matter, both the lx7 and xf1 have smaller sensors which means noise related SW algo's kick in sooner.. The rx100 uses a so called 1inch sensor (really not 1 inch) but twice the size of the other cameras. Dynamic range tends to be better. 20mp is spread across a 1 inch sensor, basically equiv to 10 mp sensor x2. iso 800 no problem. Iso 1600 still looks acceptable, but not as sharp due to noise algo SW. Still better than the other two cameras. Rx100 will be sharper especially at higher iso...
If u need movie capability, Sony video implementation best of the three.
Most pocketable goes to xf1 followed by rx100. Don't like to hold out in front of u, then lx5 or 7 wins dues to optional evf. Need wider than 28, LX series wins. Under iso 400, they are all good.
I am not afraid to pair the rx100 up w/ any camera or use it as my only camera for that matter.
All cameras have their issues, it is a matter of deciding what u an live with. It is late already here, I cannot remember off the top of my head what the blemishes are... I am sure others will jump in..
LCD on Sony the best I gave ever used even in bright sun light.
Good luck w/ your search.
Gary
- optional evf
Biggest advantage against the rx100 for the lx7
- starts at 24 equiv and the evf
If u normally shoot under iso 400, any of the cameras u are looking at are really good, unless u are a pixel peeper, which I am not so take what I say with grain of salt.
Size does matter, both the lx7 and xf1 have smaller sensors which means noise related SW algo's kick in sooner.. The rx100 uses a so called 1inch sensor (really not 1 inch) but twice the size of the other cameras. Dynamic range tends to be better. 20mp is spread across a 1 inch sensor, basically equiv to 10 mp sensor x2. iso 800 no problem. Iso 1600 still looks acceptable, but not as sharp due to noise algo SW. Still better than the other two cameras. Rx100 will be sharper especially at higher iso...
If u need movie capability, Sony video implementation best of the three.
Most pocketable goes to xf1 followed by rx100. Don't like to hold out in front of u, then lx5 or 7 wins dues to optional evf. Need wider than 28, LX series wins. Under iso 400, they are all good.
I am not afraid to pair the rx100 up w/ any camera or use it as my only camera for that matter.
All cameras have their issues, it is a matter of deciding what u an live with. It is late already here, I cannot remember off the top of my head what the blemishes are... I am sure others will jump in..
LCD on Sony the best I gave ever used even in bright sun light.
Good luck w/ your search.
Gary
CaptZoom
Established
Thank you Gary. You actually have me the type of response I'm looking for
I've never been a pixel peeper. As long as the whole image looks good, especially in print, I don't care what's going on at the pixel peeping level. As for noise, I figure just about any camera on the market today will perform better than my M9 and I love my M. It's just not appropriate for all occasions. I like the idea of having an attachable viewfinder, but realistically it's something I will not use with a P&S camera.
But I do have the expectation of getting decent prints at 8x10 for the house. Being able to print at 11" would be the cherry on top.
I've never been a pixel peeper. As long as the whole image looks good, especially in print, I don't care what's going on at the pixel peeping level. As for noise, I figure just about any camera on the market today will perform better than my M9 and I love my M. It's just not appropriate for all occasions. I like the idea of having an attachable viewfinder, but realistically it's something I will not use with a P&S camera.
But I do have the expectation of getting decent prints at 8x10 for the house. Being able to print at 11" would be the cherry on top.
rbelyell
Well-known
i personally hate composing on lcd. if you feel similarly i would suggest adding the fuji x10 to your list as it is the only p&s with an integrated optical vf. plus it has a zoom from 28-112, which is nice on the long end. ive never printed 8x10, but i have zero complaints about the IQ i get up to 800.
menus are identical to x100 and xpro, simple and customizable enough.
tony
menus are identical to x100 and xpro, simple and customizable enough.
tony
tomtofa
Well-known
Ming Thein just did a review of the xf1. Liked the jpegs and extended DR, which seems to actually work. Didn't like the RAW output. Compares it to the lx7 and rx100:
http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/11/13/fuji-finepix-xf1/
http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/11/13/fuji-finepix-xf1/
GaryLH
Mentor
In terms of print size. Here is a post about print size versus iso against various cameras which includes the rx100 but not the other two u are interested in.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1957512&postcount=4
Gary
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1957512&postcount=4
Gary
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
From an ergonomics point of view, I think the Fuji X10 is wonderful. Feels comfortable as a one-hand shooter; it has a good-sized grip. And the ring around the lens with focal length markings is great... AND its the on-off switch as well. In daylight (early morning to early evening, image files are excellent.
bobbywise
Member
I had a similar dilemma. Since I have the EVF for the GX1, I was tempted with the LX7.
I didn't like the ergonomics of the RX100. I think all three cameras are great, but went with the XF1 for the following reasons:
- mechanical zoom (personally, I like it and saves on the battery)
- great fuji lens (ok, the others have great lenses too)
- reasonable sensor (well established with x10) with great jpgs (6 months ago, I may not have considered due to lack of raw support at that time)
- solid build
- nice OOC jpgs with nice fuji colour
I have a bunch of Panasonic M43 gear and the Fujifilm X-Pro1, X-E1, and X100.
I've recently been smitten by the Fujifilm cameras, so that probably impacted my decision on the XF1.
We're pretty lucky these days to have compact cameras offering such quality.
I didn't like the ergonomics of the RX100. I think all three cameras are great, but went with the XF1 for the following reasons:
- mechanical zoom (personally, I like it and saves on the battery)
- great fuji lens (ok, the others have great lenses too)
- reasonable sensor (well established with x10) with great jpgs (6 months ago, I may not have considered due to lack of raw support at that time)
- solid build
- nice OOC jpgs with nice fuji colour
I have a bunch of Panasonic M43 gear and the Fujifilm X-Pro1, X-E1, and X100.
I've recently been smitten by the Fujifilm cameras, so that probably impacted my decision on the XF1.
We're pretty lucky these days to have compact cameras offering such quality.
CaptZoom
Established
Austerby
Well-known
I have looked carefully at both and bought the XF1.
My requirements were for a pocketable camera with high image quality to act as an improvement on my iphone camera for social snapshots and colour work - I am sticking to my mechanical film cameras for black and white.
In the end the factors that swung me towards the XF1 were simply cost (its about £150 cheaper than the Sony) and physical size - it's smaller than the RX100.
The difference in image quality was not a sufficient driver - when I want any better image quality than the XF1 will provide I'll use MF or my M8 anyway and the XF1's images are clearly far above the basic quality threshold.
My requirements were for a pocketable camera with high image quality to act as an improvement on my iphone camera for social snapshots and colour work - I am sticking to my mechanical film cameras for black and white.
In the end the factors that swung me towards the XF1 were simply cost (its about £150 cheaper than the Sony) and physical size - it's smaller than the RX100.
The difference in image quality was not a sufficient driver - when I want any better image quality than the XF1 will provide I'll use MF or my M8 anyway and the XF1's images are clearly far above the basic quality threshold.
David_Manning
Well-known
I think my RX100 needed the Franiac grip to be a comfortable shooter, especially one-hand grab shots. That being said, the RAW output compares favorably to my X100, with lots more pixels. The flash can bounce, and it is eminently pocketable.
I haven't handled an XF1, and I like Fujis (X100 and X-Pro 1 owner), but the RX100 is hard to beat, and I've used it without reservation as a primary shooter for travel and important things.
Oh...and the video is spectacular...nobody does video like Sony. 60P half-rate slo-mo is cool.
I haven't handled an XF1, and I like Fujis (X100 and X-Pro 1 owner), but the RX100 is hard to beat, and I've used it without reservation as a primary shooter for travel and important things.
Oh...and the video is spectacular...nobody does video like Sony. 60P half-rate slo-mo is cool.