Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The Bessa Rf cameras was always a bit of a niche product. Well priced and well designed - and quite robust. Some of the models are unique like the R4M/A version - only rangefinder with a built in 21mm finder and costing less than a Leica 21 finder!
I have been using Bessa's since they started making the them, and some versions are an improvement over the Leica's.
If you have any interest in using wide angles (21/25mm), snap up a R4M while there is still stock available.
The R3 M/A's have the best 75 finder on any Rf camera. free standing frame lines, unencumbered by any other frames.
My R4M is heavily used, goes with me anytime I go travelling with whatever 21 I fancy at the moment. The R3M comes along if I want to take a "long" lens along. usua;;y the 75f1.8 or the Summicron 75f2.
It is sad to see them going by the wayside - but any manufacturer have to be realistic - if the market share drops -you have to cut the losses. Coaina has in many ways changed the range finder "cultore" since the first Bessa L came out and we should applaud the effort ( and stock up while bodies are still available).
I have been using Bessa's since they started making the them, and some versions are an improvement over the Leica's.
If you have any interest in using wide angles (21/25mm), snap up a R4M while there is still stock available.
The R3 M/A's have the best 75 finder on any Rf camera. free standing frame lines, unencumbered by any other frames.
My R4M is heavily used, goes with me anytime I go travelling with whatever 21 I fancy at the moment. The R3M comes along if I want to take a "long" lens along. usua;;y the 75f1.8 or the Summicron 75f2.
It is sad to see them going by the wayside - but any manufacturer have to be realistic - if the market share drops -you have to cut the losses. Coaina has in many ways changed the range finder "cultore" since the first Bessa L came out and we should applaud the effort ( and stock up while bodies are still available).
SamShio
hiking/walking photog
I got a R2 and jumped on a good priced R4M earlier this year and took it on many trips. I will be using for a long time as my main rf camera with my others as back ups. What a shame...
JChrome
Street Worker
All Voigtlander Film Cameras Sadly Discontinued
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and (most importantly) is priced like foie gras... It's probably a duck.
It's definitely a luxury product (speaking specifically about all newly produced Leica film cameras). But even if it wasn't, this doesn't disprove my point. My point is that Leica and CV are totally different with different business models which is why I don't think the comparison so useful.
www.stillthrill.com
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and (most importantly) is priced like foie gras... It's probably a duck.
It's definitely a luxury product (speaking specifically about all newly produced Leica film cameras). But even if it wasn't, this doesn't disprove my point. My point is that Leica and CV are totally different with different business models which is why I don't think the comparison so useful.
www.stillthrill.com
Bill Clark
Mentor
Where does that leave you and your business?
Any possibility of getting Leica to set you up as a dealer?
Any possibility of getting Leica to set you up as a dealer?
Fotohuis
Well-known
I am also a Leica-M user for film. And I must say, an M7 body second hand together with an Elmarit F/2,8-28mm for less then Eur. 2500,- in 2005 was one of my best photographic decisions. When the Leica distributor in Holland went in bankruptcy I could get for Eur. 500,- a demo Summicron F/2,0-50mm. And in an article I was very happy Leica Solms sent me for free the new Summarit F/2,5-75mm in 2007. Two years ago I could get from somebody who was selling a Titanium M6 a regular Black Elmarit F/2,8-21mm "made in Canada" for Eur. 500,- because he did not like the color in selling his Titanium set so then I decided to get that C.V. zoom V.F. 15mm-35mm also for fitting with my C.V. SWH F/4,5-15mm -M lens bought together in 2009 with my Bessa III 667. And indeed I hope to make for the coming 30-50 years with this nice camera sets again hundreds of film rolls. Together with the Bessa III 667 in 6x6cm but mostly using 6x7cm roll film I am traveling in many countries, last year in war area in Ukraine too. Because I am buying my films directly at the European factories my price for film is neglectiuble low, less then Eur. 1,-/m 35mm perforated also in 120 roll film it is still cheap. By changing the film, you are changing the "digital chip" in your film camera. So my film cameras are always up to date. Apart from this set I have also some nice FSU camera's. So if you do not have the money for a Leica, take a C.V RF of any FSU RF from 1949-1975 because even with a Zorki-6 or Kiev-2-3-4 when they have a CLA together with the excellent Jupiter lenses, you can have an excellent camera. In medium format the Plaubel Makina 67 although at the moment I bought my Bessa III 667 (in 2009) new the price for me was equal for a second hand and serviced Plaubel Makina camera. So I can advise anybody: Get them now before it is too late. I expect that these C.V. MF RF's will have a price in a few years above the Plaubel. In enlarging a 6x7cm negative from the Bessa III you have no limitation in size with every film you can put in this camera. In fact it is a MF M7 with fixed F/3,5-80mm lens. For all USA clients: CameraQuest is your best option! This guy knows his products very well!
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Jack Sparrow
Well-known
Jeez, what a shame. Understandable, but sad just the same.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
I'm interested -- how do you buy film "directly at the factories"?
Range-rover
Mentor
Maybe they're make digital, now that there hands are free.
Fotohuis
Well-known
If you place a minimum order of Eur. 2000,- at Kodak Europe or Eur. 2500,- at Foma in the Czech Republic you will have a different price then buying one film in a shop somewhere.
traveler_101
American abroad
My thinking is if it turns out that the film revival - and there is certainly one underway - proves long-lasting, someone, perhaps a new firm, might well create such a camera in the future. It would be nice. Right now though I am still shooting Leica from 1950 and two Voigtlanders from 2000 and am not in the market for another camera.
Alberti
Well-known
Now that the Cosina/Voigtländer focus is not on LTM anymore, maybe we can see dedicated M-bayonet products?
The CV LTM-M bayonet is not always so successful (too thick), for example both in my Super wide and my 25mm.
The CV LTM-M bayonet is not always so successful (too thick), for example both in my Super wide and my 25mm.
robertofollia
Established
Really really sad news.
I had always wanted to buy a Bessa.
I preferred the looks of the first R2, but the feel and finish of the last ones, but did not look the rewind know arrangement where it met the top plate.
Sadly, it looks as if there will be no more descendants of that nice and fine product line.
I just knew CV in a Sonigmafoto photo trade fair in Barcelona in 1998-1999, almost 17 years ago, and I drooled over the bessa L, only one available then.
CV was one of the very few still catering for the RF market at an affordable price with new equipment.
But I did not see any mention about that fine line of cameras anywhere. There was no marketing. Only I saw a test in Amateur Photographer, nothing else.
What astounds me and shocks me is how well advertised the products from lomography shop are (some them chinese ultra low quality toy cameras at high premium prices). Zenits and Lomos are Ok, Zenit optics were superb, but look how they charge from a NOS Zenit from the early 2000s. These Zenits sold new in Spain in the 90s for 50-100 dollars!
A lubitel cost 42 dollars in the 1990s (i had one). now they charge 300 USD almost for the same thing made in China. I am not criticising that. I mean it sells, and sells pretty well.
They also marketed for some time the fuji natura classica at a premium price and all were sold.
What I am traying to say is what if CV contacted the lomographic society not now, but for the foreseeable future? I'm not talking about the Bessa line of cameras, but maybe an entry level SLR or RF system. Lomographic society is a trend now, plenty of potential buyers of film or cameras that started with digital and want to "mess" with film, head directly there, not looking anywhere else.
Old diehards (i'm not so old but shooted my first roll at 4 -126 format- and developed my first roll at 11) we all know where to go, but young photographers, hipsters, amateurs, or whatever, who want to come back to film or found that old camera buried in a drawer, head direct to lomography be it for info, to buy or even just to look. That would be a 1st step. Lomography does marketing, they sell, and sell well, and even persuade Zenit to develop new lenses (Petzval, or the new I think 20mm). They have a big niche market. I don't judge the products, I simply state they sell, having a "premium cameras" category (they had it) , it could help CV sell a lot of a bunch of cameras, or at least a few more of them.
Maybe the same stuff could still be distributed by means of other channels (but I doubt about it as maybe the Lomographic society requests exclusivity).
I mean, there is a market out there.
Leicas are selling well, even increasing sales. I doubt people who part with their money for them will let them sit on a shelf. so these people know how to handle film.
I don't know or understand how come there is no market (or no awareness) about the CV brand and products. If someone searches it on the net, they will find it. Even the german-european web page is a disaster. The japanese one is pretty good.
Happy Wednesday to everyone and thanks for reading all this (sorry if I caused you a headache)
Robert
I had always wanted to buy a Bessa.
I preferred the looks of the first R2, but the feel and finish of the last ones, but did not look the rewind know arrangement where it met the top plate.
Sadly, it looks as if there will be no more descendants of that nice and fine product line.
I just knew CV in a Sonigmafoto photo trade fair in Barcelona in 1998-1999, almost 17 years ago, and I drooled over the bessa L, only one available then.
CV was one of the very few still catering for the RF market at an affordable price with new equipment.
But I did not see any mention about that fine line of cameras anywhere. There was no marketing. Only I saw a test in Amateur Photographer, nothing else.
What astounds me and shocks me is how well advertised the products from lomography shop are (some them chinese ultra low quality toy cameras at high premium prices). Zenits and Lomos are Ok, Zenit optics were superb, but look how they charge from a NOS Zenit from the early 2000s. These Zenits sold new in Spain in the 90s for 50-100 dollars!
A lubitel cost 42 dollars in the 1990s (i had one). now they charge 300 USD almost for the same thing made in China. I am not criticising that. I mean it sells, and sells pretty well.
They also marketed for some time the fuji natura classica at a premium price and all were sold.
What I am traying to say is what if CV contacted the lomographic society not now, but for the foreseeable future? I'm not talking about the Bessa line of cameras, but maybe an entry level SLR or RF system. Lomographic society is a trend now, plenty of potential buyers of film or cameras that started with digital and want to "mess" with film, head directly there, not looking anywhere else.
Old diehards (i'm not so old but shooted my first roll at 4 -126 format- and developed my first roll at 11) we all know where to go, but young photographers, hipsters, amateurs, or whatever, who want to come back to film or found that old camera buried in a drawer, head direct to lomography be it for info, to buy or even just to look. That would be a 1st step. Lomography does marketing, they sell, and sell well, and even persuade Zenit to develop new lenses (Petzval, or the new I think 20mm). They have a big niche market. I don't judge the products, I simply state they sell, having a "premium cameras" category (they had it) , it could help CV sell a lot of a bunch of cameras, or at least a few more of them.
Maybe the same stuff could still be distributed by means of other channels (but I doubt about it as maybe the Lomographic society requests exclusivity).
I mean, there is a market out there.
Leicas are selling well, even increasing sales. I doubt people who part with their money for them will let them sit on a shelf. so these people know how to handle film.
I don't know or understand how come there is no market (or no awareness) about the CV brand and products. If someone searches it on the net, they will find it. Even the german-european web page is a disaster. The japanese one is pretty good.
Happy Wednesday to everyone and thanks for reading all this (sorry if I caused you a headache)
Robert
bobkonos
Well-known
I will once again follow Tom A's advice: "...( and stock up while bodies are still available)."
ernesto
Well-known
Hey! Do not get so sad!
Look at the signs:
1) Voightlander is adapting their main lens for digital sensors.
2) They are still developing great stuff (for instance Hyper Wide Heliar 10mm)
3) They are selling all their stock of film equipment.
This could only means that they are shifting to digital.
I cannot wait to see their new development, and could only imagine a sturdy basic manual full frame digital with M mount at a fraction of the price of a Leica.
E
Look at the signs:
1) Voightlander is adapting their main lens for digital sensors.
2) They are still developing great stuff (for instance Hyper Wide Heliar 10mm)
3) They are selling all their stock of film equipment.
This could only means that they are shifting to digital.
I cannot wait to see their new development, and could only imagine a sturdy basic manual full frame digital with M mount at a fraction of the price of a Leica.
E
BrooklyNYC
Member
It's sad to see Cosina Voigtlander throw in the towel a few years ago. I believe if they made a digital Bessa, they would have been able to keep the film rangefinder business alive. I was going to sell my Bessa R3A a few years back, because I was using my Leica M7 exclusively. I'm glad I decided to keep it now. I even use it a lot more now than I did in the past.
Deardorff38
Mentor
Thanks for the great lenses though....
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
I know this is an old post, but this is something which is extremely hard to do with a niche product that also requires mass production techniques.
One of the biggest troubles in publishing is predicting the necessary size of print runs. If you make a small run it might be popular and sell out, then you're missing out on lots of profits. If you make a large run and it doesn't sell, that's money down the drain. If the first run sells well and you make a second run - it may or may not sell well! But if the second printing is too small or too large you run into the same problem. And this is with a product that's not nearly so complicated as a camera. I can imagine the difficulty of estimating how many cameras need to be built to make a profit but not to have stock sitting around forever. They can't just build cameras on demand, they'd have to schedule a run, know how many cameras they needed and how much time they needed to make them if they had any hope of selling them profitably. It is understandably safer to err on towards making too few than making too many, even if you miss out on larger profits, you still get money for what you did make. So for supply problems, that was likely their issue.
grouchos_tash
Well-known
I heard Fuji are bring back their 670 for a limited run though
Whateverist
Well-known
If you're referring to the B&H sale, those appear to be new old stock - unsold items from the original production run.