redimp
Member
I've recently been looking for a new 135 camera, and this forum was very helpful, so Iv'e decided to start a thread to collect suggestions about a medium format options I'm looking at.
Here's my must-have list:
Aperture priority
Availability of a lens close to 40-45mm on 135mm film
Reliability and serviceability to some extent (I know these cams are not new).
Not a square format, so not a 6x6
Here's the nice-to-have:
Manual metered mode
One great wide and one portrait lens in a set
Threaded cable release for nigh exposures (and mirror lock up if it's an SLR)
Not terribly huge
The reason I chose Bronica rf645 is because it has the 65mm lens available, and it's my perfect focal length on this format (43mm full frame equivalent). But the minimum focus distance worries me a bit, it's 1 meter and even the environmental portraits at 1 meter with this focal length would be a bit too environmental. If it was 0.6 I probably wouldn't think twice.
I am ok with any non-square format, 645, 6x7 or 6x9. For a 645 my 'normal' lens would be a 65mm, for 6x7 – 80mm, for 6x9 – 100mm.
I really liked mamiya universal camera, it has that sweet 100 2.8 lens and a 6x9 back, but no meter. I really don't want to meter with my phone or carry a separate meter, I really prefer aperture priority cameras with build in metering.
I did look at mamiya 7, it does have an 80mm, so it's currently a contestant as well. I really like the form factor of hasselblad 500 series or original zenza bronica, but they are 6x6 and I don't like the square format, also no 65mm lenses available.
SLRs are ok as well, but I am currently not aware if any of the 645s have the 65mm avaiable.
Was also looking at Texas Leica, but it's not a metered body so I've decided to pass.
Here's my must-have list:
Aperture priority
Availability of a lens close to 40-45mm on 135mm film
Reliability and serviceability to some extent (I know these cams are not new).
Not a square format, so not a 6x6
Here's the nice-to-have:
Manual metered mode
One great wide and one portrait lens in a set
Threaded cable release for nigh exposures (and mirror lock up if it's an SLR)
Not terribly huge
The reason I chose Bronica rf645 is because it has the 65mm lens available, and it's my perfect focal length on this format (43mm full frame equivalent). But the minimum focus distance worries me a bit, it's 1 meter and even the environmental portraits at 1 meter with this focal length would be a bit too environmental. If it was 0.6 I probably wouldn't think twice.
I am ok with any non-square format, 645, 6x7 or 6x9. For a 645 my 'normal' lens would be a 65mm, for 6x7 – 80mm, for 6x9 – 100mm.
I really liked mamiya universal camera, it has that sweet 100 2.8 lens and a 6x9 back, but no meter. I really don't want to meter with my phone or carry a separate meter, I really prefer aperture priority cameras with build in metering.
I did look at mamiya 7, it does have an 80mm, so it's currently a contestant as well. I really like the form factor of hasselblad 500 series or original zenza bronica, but they are 6x6 and I don't like the square format, also no 65mm lenses available.
SLRs are ok as well, but I am currently not aware if any of the 645s have the 65mm avaiable.
Was also looking at Texas Leica, but it's not a metered body so I've decided to pass.
oldwino
Well-known
Well, you CAN shoot 645 with the Hasselblad with an A16 back, and they do make a very fine 60mm lens.
The problem with any of the rangefinder cameras is minimum focusing distance.
The specific problem with the Bronica RF is that if it fails, it’s a paperweight. Nobody repairs them, as far as I know.
The problem with any of the rangefinder cameras is minimum focusing distance.
The specific problem with the Bronica RF is that if it fails, it’s a paperweight. Nobody repairs them, as far as I know.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
You won't get closer focus in an RF medium format camera...
Unless you like foreshortening a lot, even 1m is too close for portraiture in my opinion with a 60mm-ish lens on 6x4.5.
One possible option for you is the Fujifilm GS645S Wide 60 Professional.
An exceptional, fixed lens, reasonably compact, light weight, 6x4.5 rangefinder camera. Excellent lens, focusing down to 1m, mechanical shutter, manual metering built in (no AE).
Fujifilm GS645S Wide 60 Professional
ACROS ISO 100 @ f/4 @ 1/60
That environmental portrait is at about 1.5-2m distance.
Fuji also made the GA series in this format with autofocus and AE options as well, that covered this focal length. I had one of them, preferred the manual exposure/manual focus models. The Fujifilm GA645 Zi has an excellent 55-90mm zoom lens.
If you want an interchangeable lens camera, and like the Hasselblad SLRs, well, you can get the superb Distagon 60mm f/3.5 lens, shoot on 6x6 with the A12 back but frame for 645, and crop afterwards. One advantage to this is that you can do both horizontal and vertical 645 images without having to rotate the camera. (Frankly, that's how a lot of professional photographers shooting magazine covers with the Hasselblads worked for decades...) The Distagon 60mm lens is fully compatible with the Bay 50/Bay 60 series close up lenses and filters that Hasselblad offered for their lens lines AND the SLR allows you to focus and frame properly with close up equipment.
(For portraiture I tend to prefer the 80 to 150mm focal length on 6x6 or 6x4.5 because it nets a more pleasing image perspective without excess foreshortening, but that's a choice only you can make. )
G
Unless you like foreshortening a lot, even 1m is too close for portraiture in my opinion with a 60mm-ish lens on 6x4.5.
One possible option for you is the Fujifilm GS645S Wide 60 Professional.
An exceptional, fixed lens, reasonably compact, light weight, 6x4.5 rangefinder camera. Excellent lens, focusing down to 1m, mechanical shutter, manual metering built in (no AE).
Fujifilm GS645S Wide 60 Professional
ACROS ISO 100 @ f/4 @ 1/60
That environmental portrait is at about 1.5-2m distance.
Fuji also made the GA series in this format with autofocus and AE options as well, that covered this focal length. I had one of them, preferred the manual exposure/manual focus models. The Fujifilm GA645 Zi has an excellent 55-90mm zoom lens.
If you want an interchangeable lens camera, and like the Hasselblad SLRs, well, you can get the superb Distagon 60mm f/3.5 lens, shoot on 6x6 with the A12 back but frame for 645, and crop afterwards. One advantage to this is that you can do both horizontal and vertical 645 images without having to rotate the camera. (Frankly, that's how a lot of professional photographers shooting magazine covers with the Hasselblads worked for decades...) The Distagon 60mm lens is fully compatible with the Bay 50/Bay 60 series close up lenses and filters that Hasselblad offered for their lens lines AND the SLR allows you to focus and frame properly with close up equipment.
(For portraiture I tend to prefer the 80 to 150mm focal length on 6x6 or 6x4.5 because it nets a more pleasing image perspective without excess foreshortening, but that's a choice only you can make. )
G
retinax
Well-known
Pentax 67II, or Mamiya RZ67 with AE viewfinder, and the respective 75 or 90mm lenses would do your must haves and then some, they're just somewhat big and heavy.
There is an AE 100mm lens for the older Texas Leica.
There is an AE 100mm lens for the older Texas Leica.
sooner
Well-known
I've owned and regrettably sold a number of these cameras, including the Fuji ZI and GA645, the Mamiya 7, and the RF 645. They were all excellent cameras and I miss having sold them to buy other gear, considering how crazy prices are for them now. I am currently using a Pentax 645n, whose advantage is faster lenses. The ZI made the best travel camera, and my shots with it were super sharp. The 7 is great but way too expensive relative to the others, so I'd go with the Zi or RF645 over the 7. I still say (screaming in the wind?) that if people like us are considering shelling out $1400 for a RF645 or $800 for a Zi then someone could make money doing another production run; how many would have to be sold to make it cost effective?
Huss
Mentor
I use a Hasselblad H1 which is 6x4.5, has AF, interchangeable lenses etc.
It's big. It's heavy. Hasselblad still services it.
It's big. It's heavy. Hasselblad still services it.
Deardorff38
Mentor
Redimp, Your wishlist is a bit of a dream. When it came out I did consider the Bronica briefly. Here's a (IMO) good review of the camera: https://luminous-landscape.com/bronica-645/. For me the three deal-killers were (in no particular order) : portrait orientation, electronics, film size (if i'm shooting 120... i want more negative real estate).
These days i wouldn't buy an unrepairable camera (electronics). Having said that I used a Mamiya 6 happily for years without any problems....but i wouldnt buy one today. I don't think the Bronica with it's limitations offers much in comparison with a small rangefinder outfit w a few good lenses, but you'll have to decide for yourself if it suits you.
These days i wouldn't buy an unrepairable camera (electronics). Having said that I used a Mamiya 6 happily for years without any problems....but i wouldnt buy one today. I don't think the Bronica with it's limitations offers much in comparison with a small rangefinder outfit w a few good lenses, but you'll have to decide for yourself if it suits you.
aizan
Mentor
Bronica ETRSi with 60mm f/2.8 and AE finder would work.
brian steinberger
Established
I’ve had the Bronica RF645 since 2007. I actually have two bodies now as well as the 45,65, and 100 lenses. It is a fantastic camera. Light, ergonomics are great, metering is great. This camera will meet everything on your list except the repairability. As far as I know there is no one repairing these now. That doesn’t mean a small repairer wouldn’t take a look at an issue, but as a whole I’ve asked a lot of repairers and they’ve all said no. I had Tamron do work on my bodies as recent as just a few years ago but they’ve since stopped repairing Bronica gear.
So with that said, I would look at the Mamiya 7. I had one of these years ago. I currently have two Mamiya 6 cameras and all three lens as well, because unlike you I love the square format. So for comparison to the Bronica the Mamiya is better built, a little bit larger, and metering is not as good. BUT these cameras are serviced by many places. I use Bob at precision camera now located in CA. So a Mamiya 7 would be my recommendation. You won’t be disappointed. But I’m a rangefinder man. You might not even end up with a rangefinder. Only you know that.
So with that said, I would look at the Mamiya 7. I had one of these years ago. I currently have two Mamiya 6 cameras and all three lens as well, because unlike you I love the square format. So for comparison to the Bronica the Mamiya is better built, a little bit larger, and metering is not as good. BUT these cameras are serviced by many places. I use Bob at precision camera now located in CA. So a Mamiya 7 would be my recommendation. You won’t be disappointed. But I’m a rangefinder man. You might not even end up with a rangefinder. Only you know that.
trianbampol
brian tampol
I think what you're looking for might be in one of the 645 SLR's like Aizen mentioned.
The Mamiya 645 PRO's have Aperture priority, just make sure to get the AE prism finder to use it. They're small (about the size of a Hassy), shoot in 645, has Aperture priority, repairable, threaded cable release, wide variety of lenses to choose from. I think that checks most, if not all of your boxes.
I had the RF645 for almost a year and loved it. But I ended up selling it because of the notoriously fragile film advance. While it didn't break on me, I could never find a repair shop that would take it in if it did. Too much risk for a camera I wanted to use as an everyday carry.
The Mamiya 645 PRO's have Aperture priority, just make sure to get the AE prism finder to use it. They're small (about the size of a Hassy), shoot in 645, has Aperture priority, repairable, threaded cable release, wide variety of lenses to choose from. I think that checks most, if not all of your boxes.
I had the RF645 for almost a year and loved it. But I ended up selling it because of the notoriously fragile film advance. While it didn't break on me, I could never find a repair shop that would take it in if it did. Too much risk for a camera I wanted to use as an everyday carry.
Evergreen States
Pierre Saget (they/them)
A 75mm lens on 645 is equivalent to about a 46mm or 47mm lens on 135 format, while a 60mm lens is about equivalent to 37mm.
The Bronica ETRSi system has a 2.8/60 that close focuses to 42cm and a 2.8/75 that close focuses to 60cm. The system is compact for a 645 SLR, has interchangeable backs and is pretty ergonomic with the speed grip and a prism finder. Unfortunately, all shutter speeds save for 1/500th are electronic. In May of last year, I wanted a CLA done on the body and unmetered prism and had a hell of a time trying to find a shop in Portland, Oregon that would even touch it. Advance Camera was the third shop I tried and they said they’d do the CLA but if I needed parts I’d be SOL. Fortunately, I didn’t need parts.
It does not have aperture priority but there are AE prisms you can get.
The Bronica ETRSi system has a 2.8/60 that close focuses to 42cm and a 2.8/75 that close focuses to 60cm. The system is compact for a 645 SLR, has interchangeable backs and is pretty ergonomic with the speed grip and a prism finder. Unfortunately, all shutter speeds save for 1/500th are electronic. In May of last year, I wanted a CLA done on the body and unmetered prism and had a hell of a time trying to find a shop in Portland, Oregon that would even touch it. Advance Camera was the third shop I tried and they said they’d do the CLA but if I needed parts I’d be SOL. Fortunately, I didn’t need parts.
It does not have aperture priority but there are AE prisms you can get.
randy stewart
Established
645 choices
645 choices
I'll second the suggestion of Bronica 645 Etrsi, although I have not sused one. It seems closest to filling your list of wants. It uses Mid-roll interchangeable backs, which can be a big positive point as well.
I would not get a Bronica RF645. It was developed at a point where Bronica as a company was failing. It was marketed before it was debugged and ready to go. The 135mm lens does not couple accurately with the rangefinder, unless the camera and lens were returned to Bronica for adjustments. The body has a well deserved reputation of developing mechanical problems, particularly with the film advance. So few were sold that it is nearly impossible to find the lenses and accessories you might want, and if they are found, their price will be ridiculous.
The Pentax 645 is a solid 645 camera, but its lack of modular design favors the Bronica instead. Today, Bronica sells at a price much lower than its competition. If you want to use a fixed lens 645 with a 60mm lens, the Fuji GA645 is excellent. The GA645Zi is excellent and expensive, but the zoom lens is slow and does not give the telephoto range you seek. I would dispute the recommended GS645S. Although there are many out there, many of those suffer a damaged focus mount which cannot be repaired. For some reason Fuji used plastic in the focus mechanics, which is now brittle and easily broken if the lens takes a minor knock.
645 choices
I'll second the suggestion of Bronica 645 Etrsi, although I have not sused one. It seems closest to filling your list of wants. It uses Mid-roll interchangeable backs, which can be a big positive point as well.
I would not get a Bronica RF645. It was developed at a point where Bronica as a company was failing. It was marketed before it was debugged and ready to go. The 135mm lens does not couple accurately with the rangefinder, unless the camera and lens were returned to Bronica for adjustments. The body has a well deserved reputation of developing mechanical problems, particularly with the film advance. So few were sold that it is nearly impossible to find the lenses and accessories you might want, and if they are found, their price will be ridiculous.
The Pentax 645 is a solid 645 camera, but its lack of modular design favors the Bronica instead. Today, Bronica sells at a price much lower than its competition. If you want to use a fixed lens 645 with a 60mm lens, the Fuji GA645 is excellent. The GA645Zi is excellent and expensive, but the zoom lens is slow and does not give the telephoto range you seek. I would dispute the recommended GS645S. Although there are many out there, many of those suffer a damaged focus mount which cannot be repaired. For some reason Fuji used plastic in the focus mechanics, which is now brittle and easily broken if the lens takes a minor knock.