Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Has anyone had luck in getting the haze/flare out of one of these VI-series viewfinders? Looks like it's all coming from the last two pieces toward the eyepiece (so the framelines or last condenser and not the 3-position thingie, the beamsplitter, or the front window. They were not kidding when they say the V series is less problematic than the VI series...
ranger9
Well-known
This isn't going to be what you want to hear, but the viewfinder in my VI-T (and my P) improved dramatically after I had cataract surgery :-/
Having said that... you probably already have the PDF of that "Model VI T, VI L, P Service Manual" (actually just a collection of exploded diagrams and a parts list) that floats around the Internet, but having scrutinized that plus my reference photos of my own VI-T's innards, I don't think there is any glass between the 3-position thingie (called the "magnifying lens box" in the parts list) and the frameline/parallax compensating plate, and behind the frameline plate there's nothing except the eyepiece... so I figure it's got to be one of those.
It may not look like it, and it may be super-tight, but the eyepiece just unscrews. A flat rubber sheet will get a good grip on it, and so will the smallest size in that "Sucker Opener" kit from Japan Hobby Tool. Once it's out, you can have a good look at it and make sure the haze isn't on the inside surface (mine was hazier than I had expected.) The threads are very fine, and the rim is soft aluminum, so getting it back in afterward is a slightly ticklish operation, but all it takes is patience.
Incidental fun fact: According to that parts list, Canon offered these eyepieces in five different diopters (and eyeglasses wearers such as self really wish those could be found today!) Irritatingly, although they all had different part numbers, the the eyepieces don't seem to have been marked in any way (if someone knows differently, would love to hear it!) so if you have two VI-series Canons and they seem to fit your eyesight somewhat differently, it could be that someone went to the bother of ordering a different eyepiece back in 1959...
Anyway, next forward from the eyepiece is the frameline plate ("parallax compensation plate" in the parts manual) and while this is a good candidate for getting gunked up (you can examine it easily with a magnifier once the eyepiece is removed) I would be very leery of trying to clean it. The silvering for the framelines is on the side of the plate that faces the eyepiece (I think; anybody know different?) so it's not hard to clean that side, but the silvering is EXTREMELY fragile and there are already enough VI cameras with eroded, faint, or completely erased framelines that you wouldn't want to increase the worldwide supply!
I suspect some of the frameline deterioration may have been just due to the passage of time, but I suspect a lot of it has been through ill-advised cleaning; I can easily imagine Ted Thriftshop back in the late 1990s saying, "Heck, I'll just squirt some lighter fluid on a Q-tip and it'll clean that sucker up in no time!" with disaster subsequently ensuing. Incidentally, while the frameline plate looks and feels like glass, I have read (on the infallible Internet) that it's actually plastic -- anybody know for sure? -- which would mean a lot of common cleaning agents might damage it. So there's that.
Well, that's as far as you can get without removing the top cover, but if you do that, you can clean the other side of the frameline plate, and then you can get a look at the 3-position thingie, also known in the parts list as the magnifying lens box. This is another good candidate for collecting gunk, since there are eight glass surfaces in there... you can clean the exterior ones easily enough by rotating the box to its different positions, but getting at the inside surfaces looked to me like a hard project since the lenses seemed glued into place. Still, if you can get the reachable surfaces cleaned, that most likely would help quite a bit. I've left mine alone so far, other than looking at them when I had the top cover off, but mine is pretty good other than the eroded framelines.
Yes, the V series optics are probably less problematic (and the ones with gold coating are probably less problematic than the ones with silver coating) but I still like the VI better because I like having parallax-compensating framelines...
Having said that... you probably already have the PDF of that "Model VI T, VI L, P Service Manual" (actually just a collection of exploded diagrams and a parts list) that floats around the Internet, but having scrutinized that plus my reference photos of my own VI-T's innards, I don't think there is any glass between the 3-position thingie (called the "magnifying lens box" in the parts list) and the frameline/parallax compensating plate, and behind the frameline plate there's nothing except the eyepiece... so I figure it's got to be one of those.
It may not look like it, and it may be super-tight, but the eyepiece just unscrews. A flat rubber sheet will get a good grip on it, and so will the smallest size in that "Sucker Opener" kit from Japan Hobby Tool. Once it's out, you can have a good look at it and make sure the haze isn't on the inside surface (mine was hazier than I had expected.) The threads are very fine, and the rim is soft aluminum, so getting it back in afterward is a slightly ticklish operation, but all it takes is patience.
Incidental fun fact: According to that parts list, Canon offered these eyepieces in five different diopters (and eyeglasses wearers such as self really wish those could be found today!) Irritatingly, although they all had different part numbers, the the eyepieces don't seem to have been marked in any way (if someone knows differently, would love to hear it!) so if you have two VI-series Canons and they seem to fit your eyesight somewhat differently, it could be that someone went to the bother of ordering a different eyepiece back in 1959...
Anyway, next forward from the eyepiece is the frameline plate ("parallax compensation plate" in the parts manual) and while this is a good candidate for getting gunked up (you can examine it easily with a magnifier once the eyepiece is removed) I would be very leery of trying to clean it. The silvering for the framelines is on the side of the plate that faces the eyepiece (I think; anybody know different?) so it's not hard to clean that side, but the silvering is EXTREMELY fragile and there are already enough VI cameras with eroded, faint, or completely erased framelines that you wouldn't want to increase the worldwide supply!
I suspect some of the frameline deterioration may have been just due to the passage of time, but I suspect a lot of it has been through ill-advised cleaning; I can easily imagine Ted Thriftshop back in the late 1990s saying, "Heck, I'll just squirt some lighter fluid on a Q-tip and it'll clean that sucker up in no time!" with disaster subsequently ensuing. Incidentally, while the frameline plate looks and feels like glass, I have read (on the infallible Internet) that it's actually plastic -- anybody know for sure? -- which would mean a lot of common cleaning agents might damage it. So there's that.
Well, that's as far as you can get without removing the top cover, but if you do that, you can clean the other side of the frameline plate, and then you can get a look at the 3-position thingie, also known in the parts list as the magnifying lens box. This is another good candidate for collecting gunk, since there are eight glass surfaces in there... you can clean the exterior ones easily enough by rotating the box to its different positions, but getting at the inside surfaces looked to me like a hard project since the lenses seemed glued into place. Still, if you can get the reachable surfaces cleaned, that most likely would help quite a bit. I've left mine alone so far, other than looking at them when I had the top cover off, but mine is pretty good other than the eroded framelines.
Yes, the V series optics are probably less problematic (and the ones with gold coating are probably less problematic than the ones with silver coating) but I still like the VI better because I like having parallax-compensating framelines...
Mackinaw
Think Different
I picked up a VI-T a few years back. Sent the camera off to Kanto in Japan for a total overhaul. Don't know exactly what they did, but the viewfinder came back bright and contrasty. And yeah, the parallax -compensating framelines are nice.
Jim B.
Jim B.
ranger9
Well-known
Would it be out of line to ask how much Kanto charges for a VI overhaul? Mine is fully usable as-is, but I really like these cameras and it would be nice to have it in absolute top functional shape.
TenEleven
Well-known
I don't have a lot to add, but as the lucky owner of a very very clean VI-L with no scratches or abrasions on the front-facing prism-block either (basically a camera-miracle) I can say that the finder is always a bit lower contrast than the other RF Canon lines. That said I'm near certain that most of the flare comes indeed from the frame-line element as both the magnified view and the 35mm finder are as contrasty and flare-free as their (V)L1 brothers.
Mackinaw
Think Different
This was back in 2019, but the cost of an overhaul was about $400 USD, which includes shipping and insurance. Took about three months for them to get to it. Communications are excellent, they even sent me pictures of my camera as it was being worked on. Kanto does excellent quality work.
Jim B.
TenEleven
Well-known
Kanto does quality work - but sadly their backlog is now something absurd like 5 or 6 months the last time I inquired (which was in late 2021)...
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Thanks all - I got the eyepiece off with a rubber ball watch back opener and cleaned the back of the mask and the inside of the eyepiece with some very gentle eyeglass cleaner. That eliminated what was most of the dirt (I knew it was in the back because pointing the camera at a light, I could see that the major haze pattern did not change with the mag setting). Huge improvement.
There is some dust/debris/etc. on the rotating block assembly, but I can now see the 100mm frames clearly, which was the big issue. One day I'll get this open and totally clean.
One thing I can say - the finder flare on this has nothing on the Retina IIc/IIIc.
Dante
There is some dust/debris/etc. on the rotating block assembly, but I can now see the 100mm frames clearly, which was the big issue. One day I'll get this open and totally clean.
One thing I can say - the finder flare on this has nothing on the Retina IIc/IIIc.
Dante
ranger9
Well-known
Eyeglasses cleaner! I shoulda thought of that... next time I'm in there, I'll try it!