markjwyatt
Well-known
According to the CEO of Bergger the formulation is unique to them.
Argentia1
Established
??
My name is not Jan.
Update?
I've not written about that topic here so far. But it is easy to get a clear picture about all that just by using and comparing the films. Measure with a densitometer and evaluate the characteristic curve and you immediately see if a film is just repackaged. Talk to others who have done that (e.g. the rff member get-together at Photokina) and you see they got the same results.
And I am in permanent conversation with a friend who is working at Agfa. Lots of current repackaged films are former (long ago discontinued) Agfa Belgium films.
Argentia1
Established
I can understand you. Those small companies and one-man-shows selling film under a (fantasy) name are often very brutal against the photographers who tell the truth.
The truth that film manufacturing is very difficult and cannot be made by small film dealers.
The truth that lots of films are just repackaged and sold at a much higher price.
The truth that lots of these films are sold with wrong data sheets.
The truth that lots of these films were long ago discontinued and are already expired for a very long time.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
Thanks for sharing. There is one film I don't see in the list, even though it's now sold under the Lomo banner. Before it was sold independently in SE Asia as the Infiniti Uxi brand in 100 and 200 ISO. I used to buy it in Vietnam.
Argentia1
Established
Yes, I am. And it is not a secret at all, but public available knowledge. Many many times confirmed at photrio for example.
If you are looking for a Bergger factory in France you won't find any, because Bergger never had one (their precursor company had one for paper, but that was decades ago).
Pancro 400 is made by Inoviscoat in Germany (there is also a "Made in Germany" on the box). They designed the film, they make the emulsion and coating.
It is correct that this film is currently only sold to Bergger. You cannot get it under different names.
Argentia1
Established
No, Inoviscoat is quite different to Carestream. Different business models.
Inoviscoat is designing products by themself. Than offering it to customers. They have designed the Pancro 400.
Bergger has no own film formulations. The Bergger owner is a biologist, not a chemist or photo engineer (I talked to him at Photokina 2016). The former Bergger BRF 400 was repackaged Filmotec N74.
Inoviscoat has also designed and coated color films like Lomochrome Purple and Tourquois for the Lomography company.
zuiko85
Mentor
Perhaps a world map showing the location and company of film making facilities. Looking at this thread has also made me wonder, what about the support industry for making film. For instance, when Ilford cuts film into 35mm where do they go to get the metal film cartridges? Do they make them or are they purchased from a outside vendor. Same question for backing paper and spindles for 120.
Now that brings up another question. I wonder. If I pay $6 for a 36 exposure roll of (place B&W film here), then how much of that is for the metal film can, plastic container, paper packaging, inventory control, shipping to dealer, markup, etc.?
Would it be, say .5 of the price, or $3, or is there a way to even estimate the figure?
And while where on it, in 35mm, how come bulk film is so blasted expensive? Compared to just buying prepackaged film that is. Sometimes the difference in price is very small. And when you include the problems of preventing contamination scratching the crap out of your film after using a cartridge 10~20 times. Well, any advantage to bulk, at least in price, could evaporate.
Now that brings up another question. I wonder. If I pay $6 for a 36 exposure roll of (place B&W film here), then how much of that is for the metal film can, plastic container, paper packaging, inventory control, shipping to dealer, markup, etc.?
Would it be, say .5 of the price, or $3, or is there a way to even estimate the figure?
And while where on it, in 35mm, how come bulk film is so blasted expensive? Compared to just buying prepackaged film that is. Sometimes the difference in price is very small. And when you include the problems of preventing contamination scratching the crap out of your film after using a cartridge 10~20 times. Well, any advantage to bulk, at least in price, could evaporate.
Argentia1
Established
Was made several times on other forums in the past. Here is a current list of film and/or paper coating factories. In alphabetical order:
Belgium:
- Agfa
China:
- Lucky (film and RA-4 paper)
- Shanghai
Czech:
- Foma
England:
- Harman technology / Ilford Photo
Germany:
- Adox
- Filmotec (only emulsion production)
- Inoviscoat/Inovisproject
Italy:
- Film Ferrania
Japan:
- Fujifilm (film and RA-4 paper)
Netherlands:
- Fujifilm (paper)
- Polaroid Originals (instant film assembling; coating is made by Inovis in Germany)
Russia:
- Tasma
- Micron
- Slavich
Switzerland:
- Adox (the former Ilford Imaging facility)
USA:
- Eastman Kodak
- Carestream (x-ray film and toll coating of Kodak Alaris RA-4 paper)
- Fujifilm (RA-4 paper)
Ilford makes the 35mm cartridges by themselves. Fujifilm and Kodak as well.
Out to Lunch
Menteur
What about Infiniti Uxi.
Argentia1
Established
Never heard of it. A film manufacturer with that name has never existed. Therefore it has to be some repackaged stuff. Maybe even weird long expired film.
Selling outdated, long expired film to customers without telling them that it is expired is unfortunately done by several film dealers / one-man shows / snake oil peddlers.
GorV
Newbie
From what I know, Silberra tried making new emulsions and shown some tests of its films before going to the mass production. They're using some other company's lines, though. Some films were definitely repackaged, for example their color films.
Tasma is very much alive. Company isn't just dealing with private customers and they're selling films in large quantities only (on some russian forum people are doing group buy once in a while 25-50 or more bulk rolls at once).
Skiff
Well-known
There is only one new emulsion / film: Silberra ORTA 50. That is made by Mikron for Silberra. Mikron is a very small russian manufacturer for holography films. All other Silberra films are just re-packaged stuff. Mostly Agfa aerial film: Aviphot Pan 80 and Aviphot Pan 200.
That is correct. They are especially producing for the Russian government and military. But for us enthusiast and pictorial photographers Tasma has no importance.
We should really concentrate on - and buy from - those photo film manufacturers who are producing for us enthusiast photographers. The real manufacturers who have a focus on classic film photography:
Kodak
Fujifilm
Ilford
Foma
Adox
(and maybe in the mid-term future Film Ferrania, but they still have a very long way to go).
CMur12
Well-known
GorV
Newbie
Thank you!
I guess Ilford's (as well as Kodak and others) fine on its own. What company do concern me is Fujifilm: they're upping their prices heavily while lowering number of their films in production. If it'll be going like that, they'll just close all of the factories left in the end. Wish they'd raise the prices for another 10%, but kept the line of films untouched.
P.S.: in such complicated market, as Russia is now, there will be some room left for Tasma, because there is demand for films at a good price, where major brands can't compete for now. Tasma's prices are nicer than Foma ones with no much logistics issues, while quality is good enough.
Skiff
Well-known
Unfortunately not. At least not Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris: Eastman Kodak (manufacturer of the films) has just published their financial data for 2018. And they made 19 million dollar loss with their film division. Kodak Alaris (distributor of the Kodak films) will sell its film division. So far we don't know to whom.
And that will keep them probably alive and profitable: 1. Concentrating on the products with sufficient demand and axing the products which make losses. 2. Making the prices the industry really needs for a sustainable future. Have a look at the presentation of CEO M. Böddecker of ADOX at the Helsinki photo fair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-WLDm-e8A&feature=youtu.be
He clearly explains that the industry needs this higher price level of 20-30% higher prices to keep the lines running profitable in the long term.
Fujifilm has made a clear statement at last Photokina that they will continue production of standard (non-instax) film. And of course instax, too, which is a booming product (they sold more than 10 million instax cameras and more than 40 million instax films in 2018).
robertofollia
Established
There seems to be a global shortage of both Fuji C200 and Kodak Color Plus 200 everywhere. Some of the websites consulted (Kosmofoto) stated that they got a reply from Fuji that "the film will be supplied sporadically and based on allocation, and sorry for the inconvenience".
Does this mean supplies (frozen master rolls) are drying up? or simply they did not expect demand to rise?
Color Plus 200 seems to be available again in 2021 but Kodak's website does not list it anymore.
Any other supplier of good budget colour film? I am reluctant to take out of the freezer the last 40 rolls of vista 200 (repackaged C200) before doing a permanent move to B/W. Best regards
Does this mean supplies (frozen master rolls) are drying up? or simply they did not expect demand to rise?
Color Plus 200 seems to be available again in 2021 but Kodak's website does not list it anymore.
Any other supplier of good budget colour film? I am reluctant to take out of the freezer the last 40 rolls of vista 200 (repackaged C200) before doing a permanent move to B/W. Best regards
zenza
Well-known
Interest in film has surged, in particular with the younger crowd. Many don't want to pay the wild prices pro-films now cost so the demand for cheap alternatives has skyrocketed. Fuji Superia has also been out of stock in most places for almost 6mo now.
If you can get away with 100iso, propacks of Kodak Pro Image 100 are well worth the $28. Beautiful, warm film especially perfect for winter IMO.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Agree about Kodak Pro Image 100. Pretty nice film and sometimes found with a good price.
Marcelo
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I have zero interest on wasting my valuable time on something boring like this. The list should be "all films available", not "all made films". All available films is list of made by original manufacturer films and repackaged, made per order.
It will be interesting to see c-41 and e6 135 rolls of 12 exposures again, with less terrifying price
Ronald M
Mentor
I found a roll of PLUS X in back of frig this AM. I spooled it so I know it is real.
Should I try it?? Perhaps just for fun dog or someones cat.
Should I try it?? Perhaps just for fun dog or someones cat.