How expired is too expired?

[tojeem]

Today I found a 20-years-expired Kodak 64 slide film among some old photo things. That is too expired.

But it got me wondering... What's the longest expired film you'll shoot? Assuming you're after decent photos, not just the Holga look.


P.S. Should I shoot the 20-yearer, or sell it for an outrageous price on eBay?

P.P.S. If you chose "10+ years", please specify then seek psychiatric help immediately.


Edit: Fixed some naff wording. Sorry for posting in the wrong place.

 

[btgc]

Shoot and then sell for extraorbitant price

I'd touch it only out of scientific interest without slightest hope for decent images.

 

[sevo]

YMMV. There are films that last long and others that last short - I've used cold stored Agfaortho 25 well over 20 years past expiration, and it looks like fresh, but on the other hand there was original Velvia which did not even make it half way to expiration before it began to look sickly.

And similar but independent phenomena exist for the latent image - I've developed old Plus-X and Isopan FF at least forty years after exposure and it looked pretty good, while I had exposed fresh Pan F obliterate itself to uselessness within a few weeks...

 

[21-135 Apo All Good]

Currently using some Fuji NPH-400 that is 2 full years out of date. Did a test, and am rating it at ASA 250 instead of my usual 320. NO baseline fog as of yet, and great color with nice amount of "meat" on the negs too! Stored in the fridge since purchased. Maybe that has something to do with it!

Dave

 

[richardhkirkando]

P.P.S. If you chose "10+ years", please seek psychiatric help immediately.

Since you're asking the question, I'm assuming you don't know the answer. If you don't know what you're talking about, why on Earth would you insult people who have an informed opinion that doesn't match up with your guesses? I've shot 10+ year old film lots of times and it's turned out fine. I've even gotten foggy but printable negatives from a 35 year old roll of Tri-X.

If it has been stored properly, lower speed film can hold up for a very long time.

 

[jbielikowski]

stored in -16C or lower films does not suffer from ageing.

 

[tojeem]

Since you're asking the question, I'm assuming you don't know the answer. If you don't know what you're talking about, why on Earth would you insult people who have an informed opinion that doesn't match up with your guesses? I've shot 10+ year old film lots of times and it's turned out fine. I've even gotten foggy but printable negatives from a 35 year old roll of Tri-X.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just joking, as all films I've seen that have been expired longer than 7 or 8 years have looked, in my eyes, atrocious when printed. However I've never seen professionally stored and shot 10-years-expired film, and you're right, I'm only an amateur.

Actually I wasn't trying to find out the "gold standard" for expired film... I just wanted to see what others thought, since it's a very subjective matter. With my "psychiatric help" comment I was merely trying to inject some humour into an otherwise humourless post. Sorry if I struck a cord.

 

[sevo]

stored in -16C or lower films does not suffer from ageing.

That is not entirely true - cosmic radiation will eventually get it independent of temperature, and that is no theoretical risk, its impact on expired fast film can indeed be visible in real life. And chemistry creep between layers (which affects colour film) does not completely stop until the last volatile components solidify (and there is low-freezing stuff like glycol in the emulsion).

Besides, cold storage adds new issues - the combination of thermal strain (different thermal contraction of the base and layers) and changes in solubility of volatile emulsion components like water and alcohols is known to increase the risk of emulsion lift. Official recommendations for pro films and papers usually recommend cold storage, but no freezing...

 

[Mackinaw]

I have some Agfa 25 (120) in my freezer that I bought back in the late 1980's that's still perfectly good.

I do, however, plan on shooting the last of the rolls this year.

Jim B.

 

[dct]

I'm shooting expired film on a regular basis, because I still have a very good performing APS SLR system (Vectis S-1) with lenses and accessories of all kind. My 240 film stock should last for the next few years and the oldest rolls are expired over 5 years. Stored in the freezer, they shows no problem.
When it will be over... I will have very expensive start in a complete new system to match all the bells and whistles I own today.

 

[Vics]

One of the great mysteries to me is this fascination with expired film?!?!? Why not shoot fresh film? I just don't get it. But I'm old, so there's a lot I don't get. Holgas, hip-hop, sushi...........

 

[sevo]

One of the great mysteries to me is this fascination with expired film?!?!? Why not shoot fresh film?

Misers and poorly calculated purchases aside, there are many films that don't exist any more - even entire film genres, like medium contrast ortho or high-speed infrared. And with the film spectrum dwindling, many people are now scheming how to preserve enough of their favourite film to last for a life...

 

[Mablo]

I can tell from my own recent experience that HP4 expired in -82 is full of fog. Fortunatamente I didn't pay for it ;-)

 

[mdarnton]

I think it depends a lot on what film. Transparency film, one shot, what you get is what you see, no corrections in printing or Photoshop later, I'd be careful. On the other hand, I just got back into film after a hiatus, and started using Tri-X that's been in my freezer since 2001 or so. It's fine, but the fog level is high. That doesn't seem to have hurt the images in any way, though, and it disappears in the printing.

Ten-year old film on the right, new on the left (and Vics, the reason for the new film on the left is that I just got tired of looking at fog, and decided I might stick with it long enough this time to buy myself a present of 100' of fresh film) :

 

[Monz]

I once shot a roll of 10 year old Kodachrome 64 (stored at room temperature in a drawer). Results looked fine to me.

 

[btgc]

One thing for sure - film without cartons means seller is hiding real exp. date no matter what he claims about it. Only on rare occasions photographers sell film without cartons - leftovers from project or travel. If it is film he isn't using normally (except for that project) it can be fine. Otherwise it can be a bag of film dragged around world during various conditions and/or strong scanners in airports of some countries.

Expired film is gambling, some people love this and some prefer to donate their extra money.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I shot most of my Iraq work in 2004 using a few pro-packs of vintage 1991 Plus-X which were given to me.

I'd shot 10yr expired Kodachrome before and saw no issues with it aside from a small amount of base fog. I don't think I'd touch C-41 or E-6 film that old though.

A lot of this issue has to do with storage, of course.

Phil Forrest

 

[santino]

shot Agfa Ortho 25 from '91 in 120 format - unfortunately the frame numbers of the back paper can be seen (must be the cosmic radiation )

 

[---f]

I've shot with 35yr old plus-x, the film was older than the subject.

here's the film:

 

[sevo]

shot Agfa Ortho 25 from '91 in 120 format - unfortunately the frame numbers of the back paper can be seen (must be the cosmic radiation )

Probably chemical print-though - the print ink contained some fogging, sensitizing or de-sensitizing chemical.