ronnies
Well-known
Sorry to hijack this thread for a moment but it got me looking at the codes in my three Konica items. My C35 Automatic (NOT an Auto S3 !) has a three letter/digit code on the Sakura sticker. It's C5T. Does anyone know what the 'C' stands for? I'm guressing the 5T means 1975 at some point.
Ronnie
Ronnie
teamsc10190
Established
Hi Ronnie,
No clue for the 'C' other than it might be an inadvertent overstrike character. The 5T indicates that the camera was built during weeks 39-40 in 1975
teamsc10190
Established
Conclusions from this study
Conclusions from this study
Never considered this quest would be such a challenge, but it has actually been an interesting journey. With 32 documented cameras, it turns out that ebay has been my best source of information:
1. 41% of total from ebay
2. 28% from RFF
3. 19% from Flickr
4. 13% from friends and acquaintances
Information I’ve researched indicated that production ranged from 1973 through 1980 however this date range cannot be validated based upon the 32 cameras documented that range from 1973 through 1977. More likely is that the camera was maintained on price lists and available at retail as sell-through until 1980.
Data distribution over the years reflects that 1973 was the year when most of these cameras were produced. This makes sense in that Konica would need to have seeded a global supply chain up front. The number of cameras/year was calculated by comparing first to last serial number reported in the respective year. Certainly there are gaps in the data with a sample of only 32, but it does reveal some interesting trends:
1. 1973: 42% of total = 53,685 cameras
2. 1974: 4% of total = 5,192 cameras
3. 1975: 19% of total = 24,490 cameras
4. 1976: 16% of total = 20,388 cameras
5. 1977: 19% of total = 23,663 cameras
The earliest serial number reported was 137330 from Sweden, and the latest was 325261 from England reported by wakarimasen on this forum. It seems that the camera was first and last distributed in Europe and the Japanese domestic markets, with early numbers before 190000, and late numbers after 300000 all coming from these markets. US market cameras seem to have largely been built from 1973 through 1976.
Earliest and latest serial numbers documented span a range of 187,931 cameras. Based upon this, all indications are that roughly 200,000 of these cameras were produced over five years of production. Contrasting with FLRF competitors production ranging in the millions, (Yashica Electro 35 series, and Canon Cannonet G-III QL 17 the reigning champions), it’s easy to understand why Auto S3’s are tough to find today and command high prices, especially in pristine condition. Many of the examples that show up on ebay these days are cobbled warhorses, or bricks offered by folks looking to cash-in. A hint: if the seller can’t guarantee that the camera is fully functional, it’s a pretty long shot to find a good one.
A key takeaway for me is that it’s probably not a good bet to pick-up a partially functional Auto S3 with hopes to restore it with acquisition of a parts camera. With such small production numbers, an Auto S3 in any condition brings good money and the part(s) broken on your camera will likely be the same parts broken on parts cameras: an Auto S3 without a functional meter is a bookend.
Conclusions from this study
Never considered this quest would be such a challenge, but it has actually been an interesting journey. With 32 documented cameras, it turns out that ebay has been my best source of information:
1. 41% of total from ebay
2. 28% from RFF
3. 19% from Flickr
4. 13% from friends and acquaintances
Information I’ve researched indicated that production ranged from 1973 through 1980 however this date range cannot be validated based upon the 32 cameras documented that range from 1973 through 1977. More likely is that the camera was maintained on price lists and available at retail as sell-through until 1980.
Data distribution over the years reflects that 1973 was the year when most of these cameras were produced. This makes sense in that Konica would need to have seeded a global supply chain up front. The number of cameras/year was calculated by comparing first to last serial number reported in the respective year. Certainly there are gaps in the data with a sample of only 32, but it does reveal some interesting trends:
1. 1973: 42% of total = 53,685 cameras
2. 1974: 4% of total = 5,192 cameras
3. 1975: 19% of total = 24,490 cameras
4. 1976: 16% of total = 20,388 cameras
5. 1977: 19% of total = 23,663 cameras
The earliest serial number reported was 137330 from Sweden, and the latest was 325261 from England reported by wakarimasen on this forum. It seems that the camera was first and last distributed in Europe and the Japanese domestic markets, with early numbers before 190000, and late numbers after 300000 all coming from these markets. US market cameras seem to have largely been built from 1973 through 1976.
Earliest and latest serial numbers documented span a range of 187,931 cameras. Based upon this, all indications are that roughly 200,000 of these cameras were produced over five years of production. Contrasting with FLRF competitors production ranging in the millions, (Yashica Electro 35 series, and Canon Cannonet G-III QL 17 the reigning champions), it’s easy to understand why Auto S3’s are tough to find today and command high prices, especially in pristine condition. Many of the examples that show up on ebay these days are cobbled warhorses, or bricks offered by folks looking to cash-in. A hint: if the seller can’t guarantee that the camera is fully functional, it’s a pretty long shot to find a good one.
A key takeaway for me is that it’s probably not a good bet to pick-up a partially functional Auto S3 with hopes to restore it with acquisition of a parts camera. With such small production numbers, an Auto S3 in any condition brings good money and the part(s) broken on your camera will likely be the same parts broken on parts cameras: an Auto S3 without a functional meter is a bookend.
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Arska
Newbie
I have two Konica Auto S3 cameras. One I've got from my mother who bought it new in the 70s here in Finland. Its serial number is 208693 and in the Sakura label the stamp is 4 Y and below these is letter C stamped in the same way. The other camera I bought from the German eBay for spares and its serial number is 254291 and the stamp in the Sakura label is 6 K.
By the way, what's the logic in these Sakura label stamps, how do you conclude the production date from it?
By the way, what's the logic in these Sakura label stamps, how do you conclude the production date from it?
teamsc10190
Established
Thanks for your response. Your first camera (208693) makes sense in that the serial number and date code match. This camera was built in 1974 during Dec 2 - Dec 13. This is only the fourth camera that I have documented from 1974.
The camera you bought on ebay is obviously an assembly of parts. The serial number indicates that it should have been made around February of 1975 (based upon other documented serial numbers that are close), but the date code indicates the camera was built May 17 - May 28 in 1976. Most probably the top cap and/or the rear door had been switched out from another camera.
Regarding the date codes: Auto S3 models were fitted with a "SAKURA" silver foil sticker inside the film door by the hinge. The sticker was embossed with a number representing the year of production, followed by a letter to reflect a full two week work ‘window’ in which the camera was produced based upon an ISO week date calendar representing production weeks. With 52 weeks in the year, each of the 26 letters represented a two week production period.
For your first camera , the '4' indicates the camera was built in 1974, the 'Y' indicates this camera was built in weeks 49-50 that in Japan in 1974 was Dec 2 - Dec 13.
Hope that this helps.
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teamsc10190
Established
Final Summary
Final Summary
With the tally now at 42 documented cameras, all indications are that the prior projection of approximately 200,000 units built seems to hold up.
Of the total of 42 cameras, 10 have been reported on this forum.
Since the last update, I've added data of another 3 cameras from 1974 that shows this, along with 1973 to have been the two highest production quantity years.
The following chart reflects the serial number range (lowest to highest) for each of the five years of documented production.
Amassing this information has required significantly more effort than I anticipated, but it will hopefully be useful for some members looking to acquire an original condition Auto S3.
Mismatches between the serial number and Sakura label production date can help identify cameras that been pulled together from parts which isn't by its nature a bad thing but it can help uncover sellers who are less than candid concerning the camera's origin.
Final Summary
With the tally now at 42 documented cameras, all indications are that the prior projection of approximately 200,000 units built seems to hold up.
Of the total of 42 cameras, 10 have been reported on this forum.
Since the last update, I've added data of another 3 cameras from 1974 that shows this, along with 1973 to have been the two highest production quantity years.
The following chart reflects the serial number range (lowest to highest) for each of the five years of documented production.
Amassing this information has required significantly more effort than I anticipated, but it will hopefully be useful for some members looking to acquire an original condition Auto S3.
Mismatches between the serial number and Sakura label production date can help identify cameras that been pulled together from parts which isn't by its nature a bad thing but it can help uncover sellers who are less than candid concerning the camera's origin.
Attachments
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SilverSmith
Newbie
Here are 2 more data points for you, one early production and one later. The earlier is serial # 190478 with date code of 3A over a C (the Sakura Color sticker is silver foil with red text only). The later is serial # 304803 with date code on film sticker of 7S (the film sticker is now a rectangle and includes an image of a box of film).
Besides the film label, there are a the few other differences I notice that may be of interest.
(1) The rewind crank on the early unit is black and on the later example it is natural/unpainted.
(2) The rolling pin adjacent to the film pressure plate is a straight cylinder on the early unit and on the later unit it steps down to a smaller diameter in the center area so that it will not contact the film in the non-perforated portions of the film.
(3) The black of the shutter speed ring matches rest of the lens barrel components in the earlier unit but in the later one the black has a bit of a gunmetal gray tint.
(4) The weight of the type stamped on the body KONICA Auto S3 and the type on the lens face is slightly heavier in the earlier unit than in the later one.
When this type change occurred might be an interesting question to answer.
Thanks for gathering this information.
Besides the film label, there are a the few other differences I notice that may be of interest.
(1) The rewind crank on the early unit is black and on the later example it is natural/unpainted.
(2) The rolling pin adjacent to the film pressure plate is a straight cylinder on the early unit and on the later unit it steps down to a smaller diameter in the center area so that it will not contact the film in the non-perforated portions of the film.
(3) The black of the shutter speed ring matches rest of the lens barrel components in the earlier unit but in the later one the black has a bit of a gunmetal gray tint.
(4) The weight of the type stamped on the body KONICA Auto S3 and the type on the lens face is slightly heavier in the earlier unit than in the later one.
When this type change occurred might be an interesting question to answer.
Thanks for gathering this information.
teamsc10190
Established
Thanks for your thoughtful observations. Your first camera 190526; was produced in 1973, Jan 1 - Jan 13. The later camera 304803; was produced in 1977, Sept 6 - Sept 17.
The earliest and latest cameras I can put my hands on are 191015 and 301598. I can validate only one change you've noted and can cite another detail change from early to late production. 301598 is fitted with the waisted roller next to the pressure plate as you've described.
I'm going to venture that you haven't owned 304803 since new as it sounds to have had some organ transplants that you would have been aware of had you owned it since day 1. I have never seen an Auto S3 with a silver rewind crank other than those replaced from another camera. It sounds like you have a rewind crank from a C35.
The shutter on the Auto S3 was commonly used on several other compact rangefinders that I'm aware of, but it's only on the Auto S3 that the "125" is green paint filled. Other cameras with this shutter I've seen have white or red paint fill in the "125".
The other change point I've noted on my later camera (301598) is the flash hot shoe has a raised chrome 'curb' along the leading edge of the hot shoe that acts as a positive stop to prevent flashes from skittering across the top cap.
Can you post a photo of the later camera?
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I guess I'm a little late to the party: 251748; 5Y. So -- early December 1975?
I need to send mine for servicing, since some shots are blurry, which makes me think the electronics need cleaning (?). Hopefully Greg Weber can set it straight.
I need to send mine for servicing, since some shots are blurry, which makes me think the electronics need cleaning (?). Hopefully Greg Weber can set it straight.
teamsc10190
Established
Better late than never! Your camera was built in 1975 Dec 1 - Dec 12. I'll e-mail you off-line with some feedback concerning servicing.
muf
Well-known
teamsc10190
Established
muf
Well-known
Thank you. It's nice to know when it was built. 1977 was a good year. Fleetwood Mac released Rumours and my Queen celebrated her Silver Jubilee. Gives me a little more 'feeling' to the camera and what was going on at the time it was built. The Era, the cloth styles, the cars, the terrible adverts on tv!!! All adds together to form a picture.
Paul
micromoogman
Well-known
I have a newly aquired one with the serial no. 146404, sakura no.3 O or 0. It has another sticker type than the newer ones without a special field for the number. It's stamped over Sakura...making it hard to read.
teamsc10190
Established
Tack så mycket!
Tack så mycket!
I appreciate your new camera info. This camera was built in 1973, weeks 29/30, or July 12 - July 23.
With this camera, the documented cameras total 53, although the range from highest to lowest serial number range hasn't changed with a total of 188,191.
The early Sakura stickers were simple and quite small and the date code was a stamped emboss over the face of the sticker.
Tack så mycket!
I appreciate your new camera info. This camera was built in 1973, weeks 29/30, or July 12 - July 23.
With this camera, the documented cameras total 53, although the range from highest to lowest serial number range hasn't changed with a total of 188,191.
The early Sakura stickers were simple and quite small and the date code was a stamped emboss over the face of the sticker.
micromoogman
Well-known
Then will its 38th birthday be celebrated next week 
Thanks for the info! Also, I really appreciate this kind of nerdish stuff I'm just the same.
Thanks for the info! Also, I really appreciate this kind of nerdish stuff I'm just the same.
daniel~
Established
Mine is SN 193598, and Sakura Label "3 C C" (letters stamped scattered)
teamsc10190
Established
Thanks for your response. Your camera was produced Jan 29 - Feb 9 in 1973.
Interesting how many of the early cameras are still around. With a production span of five years (1973-1977), the most documented cameras I have of a total of 63 (at this point) were produced in 1973. Glad to see that you maintain one of the survivors.
daniel~
Established
Interesting to know mine is a very early one.
By the way, recently when visiting a local camera exhibition, I noticed slight variations between these Auto S3:
By the way, recently when visiting a local camera exhibition, I noticed slight variations between these Auto S3:
teamsc10190
Established
I wasn't aware that Auto S3's were produced with Guide Numbers only in meters (camera on the right).
I'm only aware of two detail changes that were made in the last production year (1977).
The first change was that the hot shoe was fitted with a 'stop' to prevent flashes from skittering across the top cap of the camera. The second change gave the film roller on the back door a 'waisted' profile to ensure that the roller only contacted the film along top and bottom edges to prevent scratching the film. 1973-1976 cameras were fitted with a straight film roller.
Anyone know about other change points?
I'm only aware of two detail changes that were made in the last production year (1977).
The first change was that the hot shoe was fitted with a 'stop' to prevent flashes from skittering across the top cap of the camera. The second change gave the film roller on the back door a 'waisted' profile to ensure that the roller only contacted the film along top and bottom edges to prevent scratching the film. 1973-1976 cameras were fitted with a straight film roller.
Anyone know about other change points?