teamsc10190
Established
Interesting byproduct of camera documentation
Interesting byproduct of camera documentation
I hadn't planned to continue documenting Auto S3's, but inertia at this point has led me to document 75 cameras. An unintended but interesting byproduct has emerged from the investigation.
45 of the 75 cameras documented have come from ebay offerings. Over the course of the last year, I noted that the same serial number cameras continue popping up. There's one on ebay now that has changed hands three times in the last year.
There's clearly a reason why some cameras turn into hot potatoes, and ebay sellers seem reticent to accurately disclose deficiencies. Many of these cameras originate from sellers outside the US, so even if the seller offers to accept return, you'd still be eating almost $100 in two-way freight. Proves to me that it helps to know who you're buying from and the seller's history with the product he's offering. Rolling the dice on a $20 camera is a lot different than a $200 camera.
Paying $50 to $200 for an Auto S3 that requires another $200 service bill to potentially yield a properly functioning camera is an expensive lesson. To my mind, it makes more sense to pay top dollar for a pristine example from a long term owner who has already had the camera restored.
Interesting byproduct of camera documentation
I hadn't planned to continue documenting Auto S3's, but inertia at this point has led me to document 75 cameras. An unintended but interesting byproduct has emerged from the investigation.
45 of the 75 cameras documented have come from ebay offerings. Over the course of the last year, I noted that the same serial number cameras continue popping up. There's one on ebay now that has changed hands three times in the last year.
There's clearly a reason why some cameras turn into hot potatoes, and ebay sellers seem reticent to accurately disclose deficiencies. Many of these cameras originate from sellers outside the US, so even if the seller offers to accept return, you'd still be eating almost $100 in two-way freight. Proves to me that it helps to know who you're buying from and the seller's history with the product he's offering. Rolling the dice on a $20 camera is a lot different than a $200 camera.
Paying $50 to $200 for an Auto S3 that requires another $200 service bill to potentially yield a properly functioning camera is an expensive lesson. To my mind, it makes more sense to pay top dollar for a pristine example from a long term owner who has already had the camera restored.
Brian Legge
Mentor
Interesting but not surprising. 
I picked up an S3 locally. Beautiful condition but no power, despite resoldering wires. I'm still holding on to it with the hope intent of opening it back up again some time with the hopes of getting it working.
I picked up an S3 locally. Beautiful condition but no power, despite resoldering wires. I'm still holding on to it with the hope intent of opening it back up again some time with the hopes of getting it working.
konicaman
konicaman
Mine is: 304119, label: S7
I have another somewhere - have to make an excavation in my cupboard...
EDIT
Found it: 246594, label: 5 M
I have another somewhere - have to make an excavation in my cupboard...
EDIT
Found it: 246594, label: 5 M
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teamsc10190
Established
Thanks much for your response. Your first camera (304119) was made in 1977, Sept 12 - Sept 24 and is an early serial number from that production year.
Your second camera, 246594 is more significant in that it helps me define the serial number range for 1975, as the earliest serial number I have from that year. This camera was produced in 1975, June 16 - June 28. Documented serial numbers reflect that approximately 25,000 cameras were produced in 1975, following production of over 50,000 in each of the two preceding years.
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micromoogman
Well-known
Another one: Serial#224752, Sakura#4 B C.
agawads
Newbie
hi, mine is S/N 143387 Sakura Label 3E.
teamsc10190
Established
Your camera was built in Feb 26 - Mar 10 in 1973, the fourth oldest one of the 88 cameras I currently have documented.
I'd mentioned previously that since I started this documentation project that I've noticed the same serial number cameras popping up multiple times on ebay. Some of the 2nd time sellers make out, but many wind up losing. Of the last two Auto S3 re-resales, one camera brought the seller a profit of $43 over the price he paid, while the second seller ended up losing $84 after 5 months of ownership.
agawads
Newbie
hi, i got mine locally. so it could be from eBay very much earlier. When i got mine sometime mid this year, it is still functioning except the optics needs CLA and some adjustements. I paid SGD280 for this cam and another about SGD80 for CLA. It is a great cam except that it does not have a manual override capability. The Hexanon optics are super!
btw, thanx for the enlightenment on the serial number!
teamsc10190
Established
Sorry that I missed this one when you first posted it.
This camera was produced in 1974, January 14 - 26.
micromoogman
Well-known
No worries. Thank you!
teamsc10190
Established
Rationale to obscure serial numbers?
Rationale to obscure serial numbers?
I had an interesting response today from a ebay seller to my polite request for serial number information for the Auto S3 he was offering for sale. The seller responded that, "the serial number is confidential between the seller and the actual buyer". Really?
I can understand the necessity to maintain confidentiality for numbers that can be used to gain unauthorized access to a product or service such as a key for computer software. What is the potential rationale for a seller to protect the serial number of a 38 year old, mass-produced, $200 consumer camera built by a manufacturer that is no longer in the camera business that I'm missing?
Here's the message I receive as a potential buyer from this type of response: Seller efforts to obfuscate information about an item raises my concern that there is good reason for the seller to be hiding; and I have no confidence that the seller can be trusted about anything from this point on. For me, this is an automatic dis-qualifier.
I hope that he hangs onto that camera for a good, long time.
Rationale to obscure serial numbers?
I had an interesting response today from a ebay seller to my polite request for serial number information for the Auto S3 he was offering for sale. The seller responded that, "the serial number is confidential between the seller and the actual buyer". Really?
I can understand the necessity to maintain confidentiality for numbers that can be used to gain unauthorized access to a product or service such as a key for computer software. What is the potential rationale for a seller to protect the serial number of a 38 year old, mass-produced, $200 consumer camera built by a manufacturer that is no longer in the camera business that I'm missing?
Here's the message I receive as a potential buyer from this type of response: Seller efforts to obfuscate information about an item raises my concern that there is good reason for the seller to be hiding; and I have no confidence that the seller can be trusted about anything from this point on. For me, this is an automatic dis-qualifier.
I hope that he hangs onto that camera for a good, long time.
podstawek
Newbie
Mine: 195308, label inside: 4OC or 40C
teamsc10190
Established
Your camera was produced July 15 - July 26 in 1974.
Time has come to conclude this research project that has required far more effort than I ever dreamed. In summary; from the first serial number documented to the latest (126855-325521) reflects a span of 198,666 (that would assume that serial numbers were contiguous over the 5-year production span). Looking at the actual serial numbers documented year over year shows a total of 186,542 cameras. Safe to say that reality falls somewhere within these two numbers. Bottom line = small numbers for a globally-distributed, mass produced product over 5 years.
With 101 cameras documented, I've captured .054% of total production, with 66% of the data coming from ebay sellers. ( I couldn't recommend this exercise, as the average seller behaved as though sharing the serial number was a veiled attempt to steal their soul)
I was also able to identify five production changes that occurred over the course of production.
Unfortunate that it's necessary to secure this type of information from fossil evidence. Clear difference compared with German manufacturers who document every historical detail in five part harmony.
Attachments
micromoogman
Well-known
Great work! It would be interesting to know what those five changes were, and when they took place.
teamsc10190
Established
Not really anything dramatic, but here are five readily noticeable external differences over the five year span of production:
1. Earliest 1973 production cameras bore focus distance and G/N markings only in meters. Mid-year 1973 cameras segued to markings in both meters and feet.
2. 1973 and 1974 production cameras were fitted with a smooth-skinned eveready case that wrinkled, peeled, became sticky and fell apart.
3. 1975 production introduced a synthetic composition pebble-grained eveready case that aged more gracefully. In 1975, the Sakura film sticker transitioned from the previous oval style to a rectangular sticker with radii corners.
4. Flash hot shoe 'stop tab': 1973-mid-1976 hot shoe relied upon the flash unit to limit its insertion travel. This permitted uncontrolled engagement of the "Synchro/Flash System" actuation pin in the hot shoe and could result with the flash skittering across the top cap leaving telltale marks in the black anodized finish. Mid-1976 production added a chrome stop tab across the front of the hot shoe that provided controlled engagement of the flash and prevented the skittering debacle.
5. Film guide roller on back door: 1973-1975 production cameras were fitted with a consistent diameter cylinder roller that contacted the film across it's entire width. For 1976-1977 production, the film roller profile was changed to a 'waisted' variant that only contacted the film along the film's perforated edges to prevent film scratching.
Hope that this helps.
powasky
Newbie
Just picked up an S3, figured I should add my info.
SN is 209439
Sakura is 4M
SN is 209439
Sakura is 4M
teamsc10190
Established
Thanks for your response. I unofficially continued to passively collect data, and now up to 130 documented cameras including your, shows a serial number range of 211,552 cameras.
Your camera was built in 1974, Jun 17 - Jun 28. Enjoy it; it's a wonderfully compelling camera.
teamsc10190
Established
The bottom line....
The bottom line....
Some wacky news to report: When I began this journey I had no objective other than to understand how many Auto-S3's had been produced. What it has lead to is discovery of the unusual protocol behind Konica's date coding system.
I've been tracking Auto S3 serial numbers and Sakura sticker info for the past several years on an Excel spreadsheet to the present time where I have data from 139 documented cameras. The 139 cameras span a range of 211,552 cameras, so I've documented 0.7% of them. A small sample to be sure, but it hasn't been easy putting these 139 together.
I've tracked the serial numbers sequentially and broken them out by production year according to Sakura sticker marking. Despite that my sample is small, I've been actively seeking a discernible pattern, before arriving at a silly ah-so moment.
I'd gotten the information from Greg Weber that the numeral in the Sakura sticker signified the year of production, while the alpha character signified a two-week production period in accordance with the ISO calendar. Unfortunately Greg's information seems to be incorrect as I should be seeing a random mix of all twenty-six letters in the alphabet, but that's not been the case.
Out of 139 cameras, I've only documented the letters A, B, C, E, I, K, M, N, O, S, T, Y, on Sakura stickers. I didn't think anything of the missing letters, because my sample was too small to be able to reliably draw conclusions. konicamera on this forum contacted me and got me thinking when he advised that he has documented 5,500 Konica SLR's and lenses that contain the exact same twelve letters, and no others. OK so twelve months and twelve letters right? As my old boss always responded to direct questions; well, yes, but no. Not so simple.
Looking at the data sorted by serial number shows some repeatable patterns from year to year, such as the earliest serial numbers were typically M or Y, and the latest serial numbers were typically C or A. The point was to figure out how the twelve characters used correlated with production month.
The answer was shown by the pattern spelled by analyzing the Sakura alpha letters with the serial numbers arranged in ascending order by calendar year. I felt like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" who drank gallons of Ovaltine to be able to get his long-awaited Orphan Annie Secret Society decoder ring only to find the secret message was a crummy commercial telling him to “Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine.” The twelve alpha characters show a repeatable pattern over the four years of production that indicate that January is M, February is Y, March is B, April is E, May is S, June is T, July is K, August is O, September is N, October is I, November is C, and December is A. "MY BEST KONICA" Really???? Sounds like a wacky Japanese production slogan.
I'd hoped the revelation would be more profound, but it is what it is. That's it folks; with thanks to all who responded with their data that enabled me to put together the pieces of the puzzle.
[/url] Konica Auto S3 Production Date Decoder by teamsc10190, on Flickr[/IMG]
The bottom line....
Some wacky news to report: When I began this journey I had no objective other than to understand how many Auto-S3's had been produced. What it has lead to is discovery of the unusual protocol behind Konica's date coding system.
I've been tracking Auto S3 serial numbers and Sakura sticker info for the past several years on an Excel spreadsheet to the present time where I have data from 139 documented cameras. The 139 cameras span a range of 211,552 cameras, so I've documented 0.7% of them. A small sample to be sure, but it hasn't been easy putting these 139 together.
I've tracked the serial numbers sequentially and broken them out by production year according to Sakura sticker marking. Despite that my sample is small, I've been actively seeking a discernible pattern, before arriving at a silly ah-so moment.
I'd gotten the information from Greg Weber that the numeral in the Sakura sticker signified the year of production, while the alpha character signified a two-week production period in accordance with the ISO calendar. Unfortunately Greg's information seems to be incorrect as I should be seeing a random mix of all twenty-six letters in the alphabet, but that's not been the case.
Out of 139 cameras, I've only documented the letters A, B, C, E, I, K, M, N, O, S, T, Y, on Sakura stickers. I didn't think anything of the missing letters, because my sample was too small to be able to reliably draw conclusions. konicamera on this forum contacted me and got me thinking when he advised that he has documented 5,500 Konica SLR's and lenses that contain the exact same twelve letters, and no others. OK so twelve months and twelve letters right? As my old boss always responded to direct questions; well, yes, but no. Not so simple.
Looking at the data sorted by serial number shows some repeatable patterns from year to year, such as the earliest serial numbers were typically M or Y, and the latest serial numbers were typically C or A. The point was to figure out how the twelve characters used correlated with production month.
The answer was shown by the pattern spelled by analyzing the Sakura alpha letters with the serial numbers arranged in ascending order by calendar year. I felt like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" who drank gallons of Ovaltine to be able to get his long-awaited Orphan Annie Secret Society decoder ring only to find the secret message was a crummy commercial telling him to “Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine.” The twelve alpha characters show a repeatable pattern over the four years of production that indicate that January is M, February is Y, March is B, April is E, May is S, June is T, July is K, August is O, September is N, October is I, November is C, and December is A. "MY BEST KONICA" Really???? Sounds like a wacky Japanese production slogan.
I'd hoped the revelation would be more profound, but it is what it is. That's it folks; with thanks to all who responded with their data that enabled me to put together the pieces of the puzzle.
DwF
Well-known
Konica Auto S3 -late arrival to the list here
Konica Auto S3 -late arrival to the list here
I have had this one since about '05, about the time that I would have scanned this image. On the way from the Vancouver Photo Swap Meet to my car I recall this butcher shop window grabbed my attention.
My camera is numbered: 145314 3S
Konica Auto S3 -late arrival to the list here
I have had this one since about '05, about the time that I would have scanned this image. On the way from the Vancouver Photo Swap Meet to my car I recall this butcher shop window grabbed my attention.
My camera is numbered: 145314 3S
MarkWalberg
Established
I have two Konica Auto S3 cameras here in North Texas.
220971 with 4E on the Sakura label with a separate "O" at the bottom of the Sakura label.
323317 with 7N on the Sakura label.
I wonder if the one with the O at the bottom didn't pass an inspection, and was fixed and released later that year, August instead of April.
Both look identical except that 323317 has a stop at the front of the shoe, while 220971 does not.
Also, 323317 has the "waisted" roller on the door, while the other does not.
It is interesting that you cracked the code.
I'd like to recalibrate the meters for silver cells.
I put silver cells in and the cameras read not too far off under bright light, but they read less light than my dependable Luna SBC by about 2 stops or more at EV 10 or less.
The Auto S3 Service Manual gives info on how to adjust the metering, but I've not got around to it yet.
-Mark Walberg
220971 with 4E on the Sakura label with a separate "O" at the bottom of the Sakura label.
323317 with 7N on the Sakura label.
I wonder if the one with the O at the bottom didn't pass an inspection, and was fixed and released later that year, August instead of April.
Both look identical except that 323317 has a stop at the front of the shoe, while 220971 does not.
Also, 323317 has the "waisted" roller on the door, while the other does not.
It is interesting that you cracked the code.
I'd like to recalibrate the meters for silver cells.
I put silver cells in and the cameras read not too far off under bright light, but they read less light than my dependable Luna SBC by about 2 stops or more at EV 10 or less.
The Auto S3 Service Manual gives info on how to adjust the metering, but I've not got around to it yet.
-Mark Walberg