jhgnag
Newbie
Does the sensor replacement sound like a 3 year deal, or indefinitely?
I also wonder if would apply only to the original owner. If not, I'd be concerned about resale value.
I also wonder if would apply only to the original owner. If not, I'd be concerned about resale value.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Originally it was a three year free replacement policy that technically was indefinately meaning technically one could get a new sensor replace with another; and another; and another... Pretty sure this only applied to the original owner, but there are numerous stories about Leica "Goodwill" where sensors were replaced for free. This upset many people because replacing sensors every few years was not a long-term fix.
Todays announcement is in three parts: Leica acknowledges that there is a sensor defect; 2 Leica apologizes; 3 Leica states that it is working on a "PERMANENT TECHNICAL SOLUTION" and will replace all defective sensors on "ALL" effected cameras (their cost).
At this time there has not been an engineered solution to the problem, but Leica already expressed that it will replace sensors in cameras that already have had their sensors relaced with the future updated/revised/upgraded sensor at a later date, and furthermore anyone who paid for a sensor change is entitled to a full refund. AT THIS POINT ALL WE CAN DO IS WAIT FOR A SENSOR UPGRADE TO BE ENGINEERED AND PRODUCED.
The understanding here is that Leica absorbs "ALL" costs on "ALL" cameras regardless of ownership history. "ANY" owner is entitled to eventually get the sensor upgrade for free.
The value of a digital M I think will depend on weather this upgrade was performed or not. Who wants to buy a defective camera? But on the other hand who wouldn't want a camera that was just or recently been upgraded? I also assume that since the camera requires major dissassembly that a selling point could be that basically a camera that recieved a sensor upgrade could be looked upon as being overhauled and having been factory serviced which I think has a lot of value added.
The only real downside is the great inconvenience of not having your camera for an extended period of time. This to me is the most painful part.
The rest of the value of a used digital M remains to be its overall cosmetic condition otherwise.
Hope this is the short answer you are looking for. This is being handled by Leica very much like a recall on a car. Also Leica is also offering an incentive to trade in your digital M towards a M-240 if you no longer love your camera.
Cal
VertovSvilova
Well-known
That's my question, too. It's not quite clear if this applies to all cameras out there in the wild or only to original owners. If it's for all cameras despite changes in ownership, then one could get a used M9 now for a good price knowing it's going to be always covered and also with an option for an upgrade.
This is what Nikon did with the D600 issue. All the cameras are now covered despite ownership. Plus there's no time frame involved. Any D600 gets free sensor cleaning for its lifetime, and/or a free shutter replacement service (with free shipping both ways), or an offer of a free D610 (no additional costs) if the shutter replacement service doesn't prove to be satisfactory.
VertovSvilova
Well-known
Thanks for your post. I saw it after I posted my question. But it's not 100% clear to me; kind of ambiguous still about whether it's any camera despite ownership.
Here is what the new goodwill policy says: "This goodwill arrangement applies regardless of the age of the camera and also covers sensors that have already been replaced in the past. Customers who have already been charged for the replacement of a sensor affected by this problem will receive a refund."
There is nothing specific about change of ownership, but only "regardless of the age of the camera." It's not clear that it applies to ALL cameras despite ownership changes. I've emailed Leica about it, although I don't expect a reply too quickly. I'm sure they are swamped right now.
gdi
Mentor
Yes, but you have the "future proof" Leica!
Enjoy it forever!
"Dear LEICA M8 customers,
The desire to own a digital camera manufactured by Leica,
possessing the identical lifelong value retention associated with
every Leica product, was brought to us by many of our customers.
Leica Camera AG has now configured the LEICA M8 to meet this
demand. With today's newsletter, we would like to inform you
exclusively and in advance of an outstanding innovation regarding
your cherished LEICA M8.
With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA
M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today's and
tomorrow's users will always be able to incorporate the latest
refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is
our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future.
While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are
replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value
retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica
ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and
developments as upgrade options, declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of
Leica Camera AG. "
gdi
Mentor
The 996 is the absolute best value Porsche by a long shot, and the best selling model ever (I understand over 175,000 were sold). The percentage of IMS failures - the worst ones - seems to have been around 10% give or take. I just acquired one and it is in the shop now to have all deferred maintenance performed and the IMS fix installed. After that, I feel I'll have a car that can last for well over 100K more miles, maybe 250K. I am even "ok" with the headlights.
All for a fraction of a 997.2.
raid
Dad Photographer
Based on Leica's announcement, I should get reimbursed for the $500 labor to replace rhe sensor.
JMQ
Well-known
Raid, as Cal and others have stated, it will depend on what Leica says the reason for the sensor's replacement, since they didn't specify when you had the work done. It won't hurt to ask, but it be their "goodwill". Good Luck.
nightfly
Well-known
Dirty sensor or corrosion?
raid
Dad Photographer
I would guess that this is a dirty sensor.
JMQ
Well-known
definitely dirty sensor.
raid
Dad Photographer
The 996 is the absolute best value Porsche by a long shot, and the best selling model ever (I understand over 175,000 were sold). The percentage of IMS failures - the worst ones - seems to have been around 10% give or take. I just acquired one and it is in the shop now to have all deferred maintenance performed and the IMS fix installed. After that, I feel I'll have a car that can last for well over 100K more miles, maybe 250K. I am even "ok" with the headlights.
All for a fraction of a 997.2.
They are definitely good buys!
A lot of performance for the buck.
Congrats.
nightfly
Well-known
Thanks for confirming.
silverbullet
Well-known
Nobody thinks about the hassle when repaired cams come back from Wetzlar and need a (new) adjustment with their existing lenses. The camera bdoy will be stripped totally from labour side it's the assembling as a new camera with all the consequences….
Jack Sparrow
Well-known
If your lenses are in spec, this is a non-issue.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
To me the future sensor replacement is an opportunity to have my 75mm frames stripped out by Leica at the same time.
I had Sherry strip out the 75mm frames on my MP and M6 because I like the uncluttered look when shooting a 50.
Cal
I had Sherry strip out the 75mm frames on my MP and M6 because I like the uncluttered look when shooting a 50.
Cal
Not always.
When I worked at a Leica dealer there were often focus issues right out of the box with new bodies and new lenses. We often shipped them (body and lenses) direct to DAG for precise matching, before the customers took delivery. When the M9 came out he had a special quick-turn program for this, maybe he still does.
tightsqueez
Well-known
Have you sent a digital to Leica to have this done?
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Not yet, but I did inquire at the PhotoPlusExpo about getting a Monochrom a la carte. I'm reasonably sure that a mask from an a la carte MP would replace my old frames. I almost expect to get gouged for the bother, but I would be happy.
Every year I kinda dig into the Leica reps at the show, and it is an annual tradition for me. In a New York kinda way I tell them the good, the bad, and the ugly. Also it is my delusional opportunity to tell Leica directly what would be the best camera especially built for me. I tell my lucky captive victum to pass the word to the top. It does seem like they enjoy the feedback, and they also seem to enjoy talking with someone who is passionate about Leica products and photography.
Also I also probe about the rumors...
Cal