Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
There used to be a Panasonic S1/R forum but it seems to have disappeared. This is the closest forum that fits this topic.
It's not really a compact camera, but compared with other full frame mirrorless cameras, it's not big. A Leica M9 weighs just under 600g, and the S5 weighs over 700. A lot of us happily carry a 550g Leica body and a couple of lenses. The S5's dimensions appealed to me as it is around the same size and weight of the Panasonic m43 cameras I use, whereas I leave my 5D Mark II at home because of its weight, among other things.
My M mount lenses were acquired over 13 years, many of them secondhand purchases, so I feel I've been as economical as possible in their attainment. My M9 is one of the most expensive things I've ever bought, and fortunately remains solid after 11 years. The S5 will hopefully work as another body for the longer focal lengths. But as I said, SLR lenses will be what I use the most until I get some natives.
I can't wait for the S5 to ship! Adapters are beginning to arrive and I've been putting lenses on them, but with no camera!
In 2016, I was ready to get used M240, but then I got new M-E 220 as BD gift.
By the time I got Canon RP (2020) I have settled (after many RF lenses buying and trying) with just a few RF lenses.
35 1.4 Nokton II and couple of old LTM 50ies are perfectly fine on RP.
I replaced 50 LTMs with Canon 50 1.8 RF for AF. But here is no need to replace CV 35 1.4 VM on RP. With focus peaking it is superior on MF focus to Ms. And here is no compact 35 mm in Canon RF mount.
In fact, I prefer this Viogtlander lens on RP over M-E 220.
WO on RP.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
I went for the S1, a significant upgrade over my old 5DMkII, love the image quality, you can do virtually everything with raw files, push, pull, even on high ISO, basically I have a profile in ACR to mimic V-LOG and then I'm doing grading in PS. Right now I use it with one lens- Summicron R 50 with Tiffen Glimmerglass 1 filter, beautiful results SOOC.
Archiver
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I got my 5D Mark II way back in 2009 and still use it for jobs, although the shadow banding and noise can bug the heck out of me. Looking forward to having full frame files with no significant banding! Your choice of Summicron R 50 sounds really good; I'll be using a Minolta MC 50/1.4, PG 35/2.8 and Pentax M 50/1.4 and 28/2.8 to begin with. I haven't heard of the Glimmerglass filter before, what do you like about it?
Archiver
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Love that Nokton 35 on the RP! I've had my Nokton for about 13 years and it's been great for so many applications. I've shot landscapes, portraits and even sports with it on the M9, and similar on the Zeiss Ikon. I think it will be a really fun low profile lens for the S5. On my G9 and other m43 cameras it becomes a 70mm, which is surprisingly versatile and enjoyable.
Michael Markey
Mentor
I use my Zeiss 50 f1.5 on my SL2S and couldn`t be more pleased .
Archiver
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My hope is that the Zeiss Sonnar is going to be decent enough on the S5 to be a main portrait lens. The Sonnar rendering is a favourite of mine, and I've traveled with that lens and used it in preference to the superb Summicron 50. I've got the Voigtlander 35/1.4 on my G9 as an anticipatory substitute for when my S5 arrives, hahaha! The shop says they are expecting more S5 stock in late June, so fingers crossed it comes soooooonnnnnn.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
It's adds a little bit of glow in the highlights and softens the midtones. I started with Black Pro Mist 1/4 but while great for BW for color it was bit too muddy for my taste. BTW Tiffen has great studio tests of their filters on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/97412065
here you can see the effect quite well (ISO 5000):
in portraits it's much more subtle (ISO 1600):
Archiver
Mentor
That's a good avenue to explore. A number of video producers use the Black Promist filter to take the edge off modern lenses, but I never liked the look as I felt it created this oddly dirty rendering. Glimmerglass looks like a better alternative. Thanks for that!
Archiver
Mentor
The S5 arrived this morning and I spent a couple of hours setting it up and playing with it, a couple of hours that I really can't afford right now. But here we are.
Build and design:
Compared with the G9, which has been my primary m43 camera for about a year: the grip is not quite as full and chunky, which would have been welcome on the S5, given that a full frame camera is going to use heavier lenses. The G9 sits really well in the hand, and the S5 is decent but not superlative like the G9.
The menu system is even bigger than the G9. What the heck. Most of it is familiar to me, but there are pages that I've either never seen before like V-log and monitoring LUT settings, and some features have changed places in the menu system, making them a bit tricky to find.
Almost every button on this camera can be customized to something else. No joke. Even the mode control wheel on the back of the camera can be turned into a four button custom function set. It's almost ridiculous how many setting this puts at your direct control.
The shutter sound is louder than the G9 but has a more satisfying 'scrunch'. I like it a lot, it sounds like the shutter in the Ricoh GXR M mount module. Feels like home!
Lenses:
The 20-60mm kit lens is really light! It's been a long time since I've held a lens that feels so light and almost hollow. But the zoom range is practical and versatile, and the high ISO performance of the S5 ought to make up for the 3.5-5.6 aperture range.
I have two adapters at the moment with more on the way. The Urth x Gobe Minolta to L mount adapter is well made and solid, but it lacks a really positive click when attaching it to the camera. When I first tried it, the camera screen remained black and a message said that the lens was not properly seated. A twist of the inserted adapter made the screen come on, and it asked me what focal length I wanted to use. Thank goodness!
Focusing with the EVF and LCD is quite easy, and it's much easier to grab focus on things outside of the centre using focus peaking, unlike a rangefinder camera which must focus in the centre. Years of using a rangefinder have given me a very fast focus-recompose reflex action, but I assume that I'll be able to develop even faster EVF focusing skills.
The Minolta PG Rokkor 50mm f1.4 and MD W Rokkor 35mm f2.8 are awesome on this camera. The subtle details, even at f1.4, are evident at full resolution.
I have the Sigma MC21 Canon EF to L mount adapter, and here are my findings so far:
- Canon 70-200mm f4 IS L - focuses accurately but fairly slowly, with a back and forth hunting action.
- Canon 35mm f1.4 L - This focuses pretty fast and with less hunting than the longer lens, and I feel this will be a reliably albeit fairly slow combination.
- Sigma 24-105mm f4 - This focuses slowly with hunting, but is accurate.
- Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 - I think this adapter is on the original firmware, because this lens is AWFUL on the S5. Autofocus is a total crapshoot with a majority % miss rate. The lens racks back and forth and refuses to get into focus, even on what looks like a contrasty area. This is mildly annoying, as I was planning to use this as the primary video lens. But never mind, I will update the adapter and camera firmware and we shall see how that goes.
- Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 SL EF mount - this is a real pleasure to use. The pancake design makes this very compact on the S5's body, even with the adapter, and feels great on the camera. Focusing is quick and easy, and the MC21 recognizes the focal length and applies IBIS automatically.
Image quality and exposure:
Exposure is a bit weird. I feel like it prioritizes highlights, and ends up underexposing by almost a stop. This is easily corrected in post, or by dialing up exposure compensation. The images look dark on the screen and EVF, and that's how they turn out.
The amount of detail that can be recovered from the shadows and blacks is ridiculous. An image that is almost black can be pushed several stops with virtually no noise penalty. Speaking of noise: one thing that bugs me about m43 cameras is this very fine black granularity when the images are pushed. The S5 has NONE of this fine granularity, unless very underexposed, shot at ISO 4000 and up, and pushed at least 2.5 stops in post. And then it cleans up perfectly with some NR in Lightroom.
Detail and sharpness is superb, thanks to 24mp and no AA filter.
The Minolta 50mm is still sharp wide open, as long as you nail focus. It's not bitingly sharp like a modern lens, but has low contrast and very soft bokeh. I'm so pleased with how this is turning out so far.
The Minolta MD W 35/2.8 is nice and crisp at f2.8, which is what I was hoping for. It's going to be a great general purpose walkaround lens.
Future plans:
Future plans include building my Minolta collection, using my Pentax M lenses, and perhaps getting into Contax lenses like the 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f2.8 or f1.4. I've got a Leica M adapter on the way, so I'll be able to test all my M lenses and figure this out for myself, rather than scour the internet for other people's tests. I deeply enjoy using manual focus lenses, so I might even get into Leica R lenses, which I regret not buying about ten years ago when prices were still fairly low.
I am going to see if I can recreate the look of the Leica M9 with this camera. If this works, I'm going to be very, very happy. When the M mount adapter comes, I'll be able to do direct A B comparisons between the S5 and M9 with the same glass, and build Lightroom presets to get the S5 as close to the M9 as possible.
I'll also look at processing the Minolta lens images to look like film images I took years ago, which will offer a fun alternative look.
No images to show yet, I'm still processing them and figuring out how these files respond in Lightroom. Will post images when I can!
Build and design:
Compared with the G9, which has been my primary m43 camera for about a year: the grip is not quite as full and chunky, which would have been welcome on the S5, given that a full frame camera is going to use heavier lenses. The G9 sits really well in the hand, and the S5 is decent but not superlative like the G9.
The menu system is even bigger than the G9. What the heck. Most of it is familiar to me, but there are pages that I've either never seen before like V-log and monitoring LUT settings, and some features have changed places in the menu system, making them a bit tricky to find.
Almost every button on this camera can be customized to something else. No joke. Even the mode control wheel on the back of the camera can be turned into a four button custom function set. It's almost ridiculous how many setting this puts at your direct control.
The shutter sound is louder than the G9 but has a more satisfying 'scrunch'. I like it a lot, it sounds like the shutter in the Ricoh GXR M mount module. Feels like home!
Lenses:
The 20-60mm kit lens is really light! It's been a long time since I've held a lens that feels so light and almost hollow. But the zoom range is practical and versatile, and the high ISO performance of the S5 ought to make up for the 3.5-5.6 aperture range.
I have two adapters at the moment with more on the way. The Urth x Gobe Minolta to L mount adapter is well made and solid, but it lacks a really positive click when attaching it to the camera. When I first tried it, the camera screen remained black and a message said that the lens was not properly seated. A twist of the inserted adapter made the screen come on, and it asked me what focal length I wanted to use. Thank goodness!
Focusing with the EVF and LCD is quite easy, and it's much easier to grab focus on things outside of the centre using focus peaking, unlike a rangefinder camera which must focus in the centre. Years of using a rangefinder have given me a very fast focus-recompose reflex action, but I assume that I'll be able to develop even faster EVF focusing skills.
The Minolta PG Rokkor 50mm f1.4 and MD W Rokkor 35mm f2.8 are awesome on this camera. The subtle details, even at f1.4, are evident at full resolution.
I have the Sigma MC21 Canon EF to L mount adapter, and here are my findings so far:
- Canon 70-200mm f4 IS L - focuses accurately but fairly slowly, with a back and forth hunting action.
- Canon 35mm f1.4 L - This focuses pretty fast and with less hunting than the longer lens, and I feel this will be a reliably albeit fairly slow combination.
- Sigma 24-105mm f4 - This focuses slowly with hunting, but is accurate.
- Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 - I think this adapter is on the original firmware, because this lens is AWFUL on the S5. Autofocus is a total crapshoot with a majority % miss rate. The lens racks back and forth and refuses to get into focus, even on what looks like a contrasty area. This is mildly annoying, as I was planning to use this as the primary video lens. But never mind, I will update the adapter and camera firmware and we shall see how that goes.
- Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 SL EF mount - this is a real pleasure to use. The pancake design makes this very compact on the S5's body, even with the adapter, and feels great on the camera. Focusing is quick and easy, and the MC21 recognizes the focal length and applies IBIS automatically.
Image quality and exposure:
Exposure is a bit weird. I feel like it prioritizes highlights, and ends up underexposing by almost a stop. This is easily corrected in post, or by dialing up exposure compensation. The images look dark on the screen and EVF, and that's how they turn out.
The amount of detail that can be recovered from the shadows and blacks is ridiculous. An image that is almost black can be pushed several stops with virtually no noise penalty. Speaking of noise: one thing that bugs me about m43 cameras is this very fine black granularity when the images are pushed. The S5 has NONE of this fine granularity, unless very underexposed, shot at ISO 4000 and up, and pushed at least 2.5 stops in post. And then it cleans up perfectly with some NR in Lightroom.
Detail and sharpness is superb, thanks to 24mp and no AA filter.
The Minolta 50mm is still sharp wide open, as long as you nail focus. It's not bitingly sharp like a modern lens, but has low contrast and very soft bokeh. I'm so pleased with how this is turning out so far.
The Minolta MD W 35/2.8 is nice and crisp at f2.8, which is what I was hoping for. It's going to be a great general purpose walkaround lens.
Future plans:
Future plans include building my Minolta collection, using my Pentax M lenses, and perhaps getting into Contax lenses like the 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f2.8 or f1.4. I've got a Leica M adapter on the way, so I'll be able to test all my M lenses and figure this out for myself, rather than scour the internet for other people's tests. I deeply enjoy using manual focus lenses, so I might even get into Leica R lenses, which I regret not buying about ten years ago when prices were still fairly low.
I am going to see if I can recreate the look of the Leica M9 with this camera. If this works, I'm going to be very, very happy. When the M mount adapter comes, I'll be able to do direct A B comparisons between the S5 and M9 with the same glass, and build Lightroom presets to get the S5 as close to the M9 as possible.
I'll also look at processing the Minolta lens images to look like film images I took years ago, which will offer a fun alternative look.
No images to show yet, I'm still processing them and figuring out how these files respond in Lightroom. Will post images when I can!
Freakscene
Obscure member
I can write you a droplet to randomly place haloed corrosion spots of various sizes over your photos.
More seriously, enjoy the S5 and show us what it can do.
Marty
Archiver
Mentor
Haha, I have all the corrosion spot photos I could want.
And thank you, I will shoot over the weekend and see what I can come up with.
After some research, I know what happened with the Sigma 18-35. First, I updated the S5's firmware from 1.1 to 2.2, and then the Sigma 18-35 wasn't recognized at all, and wouldn't autofocus or register focal length for IBIS. It doesn't even recognize that it's an aps-c lens, which would normally cause the camera to switch to aps-c mode. It appears that these lenses need firmware updates to be compatible with the MC21 adapter, and to do that, I need to buy a Sigma lens dock.
On the plus side, it's likely that my Sigma 24-105 will benefit from a firmware update, too. Although the S5 recognizes the lens and enables autofocus, it doesn't allow IBIS or even one-touch AF during video. These problems will hopefully be resolved when I update the lens' firmware.
agentlossing
Well-known
I find this camera very, very interesting for its capabilities and for my years of using Panasonic M4/3 cameras, I have to say that Panasonic must be among the best in terms of reliability and just general usefulness and ruggedness. Their cameras just work. Price is the main thing that holds me back, it would be a serious investment for me as the camera stands, but if it got down to around the $1K mark, I'd be all over it. The body might not satisfy as much as one with classic lines and old time design, but it comes down to a price/IQ/joy of using three-way tie, and if price were to come down it might outweigh that third one.
Michael Markey
Mentor
I much prefer it to my 50 Summicron too .
Archiver
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Give it a year or two, there will no doubt be secondhand S5s on the market when people inevitably upgrade or decide they want the next big thing.
Second day of S5 and I'm getting to grips with it pretty well.
The 20-60 kit lens is surprisingly good, with a very useful wide angle and good range. When I look at my travel images, I shoot with a 21, 35 and 50, so 20-60 fits exactly into that range.
And despite what some say about the f3.5-5.6 aperture, the m43 equivalent is f1.7-2.8. If there was a m43 zoom lens with that aperture range, m43 users would be dancing in the streets. The Panasonic and Olympus zooms start at f2.8 and top out at f4.
More tests with the original Canon 35L show that autofocus is balls. It's even worse than on the Canon 5D Mark II, and that's saying something. It hunts, racks focus and then it's hit or miss from there on out. Shooting through a window, the 35L on Sigma MC21 repeatedly misses focus on brightly lit objects or reflective surfaces that even the Canon would hit. But autofocus is reasonable on the Sigma 24-105, which is understandable as the MC21 is intended for Sigma lenses only. The more I use it, the more it looks like manual focus lenses is the way to go with Canon EF mount. Bring on Zeiss classics and Milvus!
On that note, the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 SL II is great! The MC21 recognizes the focal length and sets IBIS, and aperture can be controlled from the camera. The small size and performance made me look online, and it seems Voigtlander made a 28mm f2.8 SL II pancake for Canon EF in 2012! How did I never see this? That lens is discontinued, but it might be worth getting.
There is an unexpectedly poor feature in the video settings, if anyone cares. On the G9 and GH5, you can capture up to 180fps in slow motion in MOV format up to 100mbps bitrate. I use 100fps regularly as it's 4x slow motion with a good amount of colour grading potential. On the S5, the highest bitrate for 100fps slow motion is only 20mbps, which is woefully low. It's also in the lower quality mp4 format as opposed to MOV. This means that the video quality is much lower, and won't take much colour grading before the image starts to show a lot of noise and artifacts. This is really surprising, given how good the S5's video specs are otherwise.
Archiver
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I can't believe it's been a month and I hardly have anything to show for it! Thanks to the lockdowns here in Victoria, going out to shoot has been pretty minimal.
The Minolta MC Rokkor PG 50mm f1.4 is a lovely lens. Although it's got some glow wide open, the glow is much diminished at f2 and gone by f2.8. Here are a couple of images at f1.4:
S5 - Fields of Green by Archiver, on Flickr
S5 - Remains of a party by Archiver, on Flickr
It was very pleasing to confirm that the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f1.4 ZM works really well on the S5. No colour shift on the edges, and only minimal smearing in the edges. The vignetting in this image is partially my addition. The lens is super sharp in the middle, even on the S5.
S5 - Free Mandarins by Archiver, on Flickr
I still have yet to do direct AB comparisons of M mount lenses on the M9 and S5, but I will get around to it. So far:
More to come.
The Minolta MC Rokkor PG 50mm f1.4 is a lovely lens. Although it's got some glow wide open, the glow is much diminished at f2 and gone by f2.8. Here are a couple of images at f1.4:
S5 - Fields of Green by Archiver, on FlickrS5 - Remains of a party by Archiver, on FlickrIt was very pleasing to confirm that the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f1.4 ZM works really well on the S5. No colour shift on the edges, and only minimal smearing in the edges. The vignetting in this image is partially my addition. The lens is super sharp in the middle, even on the S5.
S5 - Free Mandarins by Archiver, on FlickrI still have yet to do direct AB comparisons of M mount lenses on the M9 and S5, but I will get around to it. So far:
- Voigtlander 15mm f4.5 v1 - no colour shift, slight vignetting, slight edge smearing
- Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8 ZM - no colour shift, slight vignetting, slight edge smearing, super sharp centre
- Leica Elmarit M 28mm f2.8 - sharp centre, slight vignetting, a fair bit of smearing toward the edges and corners
- Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4 MC - this lens is okay but somewhat problematic. It already exhibits wide open glow on the M9, so that was expected. But it also has strangely shaped bokeh highlights toward the edges of the frame. They're no round or even elliptical, but like two hazy squares overlapping each other. I don't like how this lens renders on the S5.
- Zeiss Distagon 35mm f1.4 ZM - as stated before, this lens is super sharp in the middle and has only minor edge smearing. It's absolutely usable and acceptable on the S5 unless you want landscapes.
- Leica Summicron M 50mm f2 v5 - a tiny bit of edge smearing, but overall the lens performs beautifully. Sharp in the centre, no weird plane of focus issues, nothing.
- Zeiss C Sonnar 50mm f1.5 - will need to do more tests, but it seems fine with no issues. And focus shift is a thing of the past since a mirrorless camera focuses directly with the image.
- Leica Summarit M 75mm f2.5 - performs perfectly on the S5
More to come.
Archiver
Mentor
A few images with the S5 and Minolta MD W Rokkor 35mm f2.8
S5 - Glimmers of Gold by Archiver, on Flickr
S5 - Westin By Day by Archiver, on Flickr
S5 - Flinders Way by Archiver, on Flickr
S5 - Glimmers of Gold by Archiver, on FlickrS5 - Westin By Day by Archiver, on FlickrS5 - Flinders Way by Archiver, on FlickrArchiver
Mentor
Finally got the Sigma EF mount dock, which updates the firmware to Sigma EF lenses.
My copy of the Sigma 24-105 turned out to have the latest firmware, which is odd as the S5's IBIS isn't active, when it should be. Both the MC21 adapter and S5 are fully updated, so I don't know what's going on.
The Sigma 18-35 now works! The autofocus hunts a bit, but now locks on, whereas before it never locked on to anything. The aps-c crop is now automatically applied in camera, too. I'm looking forward to using the S5 and 18-35 like the Canon 30D, for work and fun.
My copy of the Sigma 24-105 turned out to have the latest firmware, which is odd as the S5's IBIS isn't active, when it should be. Both the MC21 adapter and S5 are fully updated, so I don't know what's going on.
The Sigma 18-35 now works! The autofocus hunts a bit, but now locks on, whereas before it never locked on to anything. The aps-c crop is now automatically applied in camera, too. I'm looking forward to using the S5 and 18-35 like the Canon 30D, for work and fun.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
The S5 is nice. I got mine w/free lens brand new so I couldn't refuse.
I still use the el cheapo Panny G7 for a lot of stuff when I need the extra battery power..and its just easier/simpler to use.
I still use the el cheapo Panny G7 for a lot of stuff when I need the extra battery power..and its just easier/simpler to use.
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I recently shot a whole day (1530 images) with the S5 in a fast paced combat sports setting in bright light using the native Panasonic 50mm f1.8 and Sigma 18-35mm EF mount with MC 21 adapter.
The Sigma with updated firmware set the camera to aps-c mode which creates aps-c cropped raw files. Not bad at all. But I can't say that the quality of these images is like a cropped full frame images - there's some kind of resampling or something going on that makes images with a somewhat different look, rather than being a straight crop. I won't use aps-c lenses on the S5 for work where image quality is critical. Laypersons probably won't notice, but I certainly do. I'm better off getting a 24-70 f2.8 if I want that focal length range and depth of field on the S5.
Autofocus speed of the Sigma was not the best, not up to the standard of the 50mm. The 50 focuses quickly and accurately in most situations, especially with single-point AF, but also with face detection, surprisingly. So there's something to be said for native lenses, once again.
The buffer filed up, but not so rapidly that it impeded my work. It got quite a few keepers and am happy with the results. Even when wide open, the 50mm f1.8 is sharp as heck in the middle.
I also shot a lot of video, making good use of the S5's capabilities as a hybrid camera. It's exactly what I wanted, a relatively inexpensive camera capable of shooting 4k 50p in 10 bit 422 (robust files for colour grading) as well as 24mp resolution stills with great colour. The S5 shoots in a log profile which takes colour grading really well, and the 10 bit 422 codec means I can push the files pretty hard and they still look good, without blotches or macro blocking.
The Sigma with updated firmware set the camera to aps-c mode which creates aps-c cropped raw files. Not bad at all. But I can't say that the quality of these images is like a cropped full frame images - there's some kind of resampling or something going on that makes images with a somewhat different look, rather than being a straight crop. I won't use aps-c lenses on the S5 for work where image quality is critical. Laypersons probably won't notice, but I certainly do. I'm better off getting a 24-70 f2.8 if I want that focal length range and depth of field on the S5.
Autofocus speed of the Sigma was not the best, not up to the standard of the 50mm. The 50 focuses quickly and accurately in most situations, especially with single-point AF, but also with face detection, surprisingly. So there's something to be said for native lenses, once again.
The buffer filed up, but not so rapidly that it impeded my work. It got quite a few keepers and am happy with the results. Even when wide open, the 50mm f1.8 is sharp as heck in the middle.
I also shot a lot of video, making good use of the S5's capabilities as a hybrid camera. It's exactly what I wanted, a relatively inexpensive camera capable of shooting 4k 50p in 10 bit 422 (robust files for colour grading) as well as 24mp resolution stills with great colour. The S5 shoots in a log profile which takes colour grading really well, and the 10 bit 422 codec means I can push the files pretty hard and they still look good, without blotches or macro blocking.