ninadp
bot account
I'm always surprised by the "If X, then this camera is not for you" type arguments. I love rangefinders, can't really afford digital M bodies, would prefer to buy new/current gen electronics because of past experiences with used digital bodies, and am willing to spend ~$2-2.5k (not an insignificant amount). If a new non-Leica (read cheaper) rangefinder is not marketed to me, who is it marketed to?
I know that I can get an M240 and probably will get it at some point unless I just go all Fuji for digital. I have an X100F that I absolutely love.
I know that I can get an M240 and probably will get it at some point unless I just go all Fuji for digital. I have an X100F that I absolutely love.
loranger
Member
by chance I found some sample pictures (almost hidden) on the company's website:
https://store.pixii.fr/series/index
https://store.pixii.fr/series/index
mothertrucker
Well-known
The price may be high now, but if so, let the first adopters buy it, and then when they get bored, pick it up for half price in a year or two. I just got a leica MP 240 for maybe 1/3 of what they were going for new. I'm sure it still takes great pictures (waiting on it in the mail)
I appreciate that someone is trying something new. And if they do well, full frame may be around the corner. After all, it's not like Leica went full frame out of the gate on digital either.
I appreciate that someone is trying something new. And if they do well, full frame may be around the corner. After all, it's not like Leica went full frame out of the gate on digital either.
BillBingham2
Registered User
While my experience is not what I would call decades, it is pretty good. Every product engineering effort I've been involved with has always made cuts, some deep, show shallow.
Sensor choice impacts cost, features, and interface complexity. Odds are you find two are right where you want them, but the third reaches out and bites you. It's not just an engineering decision, it's marketing, sales, and investor decision.
B2 (;-<
akptc
Shoot first, think later
Is the top LCD in this picture wearing a protective glass? It looks a bit raised above the level of the adjacent top plate, no?
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
O.K., I get it. A nice little box to which lovely little Leica-mount lenses can be attached. And I certainly can live with 12Mp (with plumper pixels). But why oh why would I ever think of spending $3300 for such a thing. I just don't get the thinking of the marketing/engineering thinking here. Cosina, where are you??
I doubt they had a choice... this isn't a big name brand. I'm with you though...
Archlich
Well-known
The price seems reasonable given that they developed this from scratch. Probably gonna sell very few so the profit margin has to be even higher. It's just that they have to compete with the sea of used M240 out there.
Personally I'm really curious about (with due respect) the decision to bring this product to market at all. Every sane people back then were expecting it to remain as a vaporware, which would be more financially viable.
Maybe they have an investor that doesn't really care about profitability?
mothertrucker
Well-known
The cost of entry into camera manufacturing must be very high, not too dissimilar from entering the automotive world. How many newcomers do you see there which last? I can only think of Tesla as a new major player.
If someone did feel like breaking into the camera market, it would take at least a couple of product generations to get the supply chains up and going, make needed improvements, and then really start making a dent in the market.
I liken this first product by Pixii to the Tesla Roadster. They never sold a lot of them, but it laid the groundwork for the future.
If there is a niche of the camera market to be exploited, it is the digital rangefinder market.
If someone did feel like breaking into the camera market, it would take at least a couple of product generations to get the supply chains up and going, make needed improvements, and then really start making a dent in the market.
I liken this first product by Pixii to the Tesla Roadster. They never sold a lot of them, but it laid the groundwork for the future.
If there is a niche of the camera market to be exploited, it is the digital rangefinder market.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
What would make this camera a total winner would be a design that foresees components will eventually need to be swapped out for replacement, repair, or upgrades, and makes it convenient to do so, both mechanically and electronically.
Being able to do this means you won't own an expensive brick 5-10 years from now.
Being able to do this means you won't own an expensive brick 5-10 years from now.
Well, I am starting to think about it like this ...
Have you ever dated someone who had really great qualities you appreciated, but also had bothersome ticks you just had to deal with?
Are you willing to deal with the ticks to benefit from unique camera specs?
The Pixii has qualities that no other M camera has, and solves problems that no other M camera can - IF THOSE ADVANTAGES ARE IMPORTANT TO YOUR SHOOTING.
1) GLOBAL SHUTTER - NO distortion. Race cars, motorcyles, athletes, sports, planes etc all shot with ZERO shutter distortion.
2) SILENT Shutter -no need for a sound blimp shooting movie sets, press conferences, street shooting you want to be quiet about
3) 1/32000 shutter - five stops faster than your film Leica M, 3 stops faster than your M10. You can shoot wide open easier without filters, as well as stop action like you have never stopped action before
4) the 12MP sensor..well anyone remember the 6MP magic of the Nikon D100 taking over the Press world in 2002?
Guess what, those tiny 6MP pics are still generating revenue. 12MP is large enough to sell the images if those images are wanted.
What it amounts to is whether or not you can figure out a way to produce unique pics with the unique quality of this camera.
If you are a photo student, probably not. If you are a well paid press, sports, scientific or PR photog, that's more like it.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
With the GXR, Ricoh thought they had that approach sorted. out.
The body accepted various lens-sensor modules, even a 12 Mpixel APS-C M mount. However the flaw was that the body processing power was limited and the lens-sensor interface too constraining for next generation sensors. The GXR-II got lost in the Pentax management fiasco.
As with Leica M8/9 ... M.240 ... M10/10M/R: a platform can only be pushed so far before it needs to step evolve to keep pace with new the denser interfaces required by higher performance technologies.
The full frame version of the APS-C sensor used in PIXII have different pin-out and carrier sizes , so a swap cannot happen.
a big factor may be the labor and parts cost of the upgrade.
Upgrades worked out so well with the upgradable M8 that Leica dropped the idea entirely.
What would make it a total winner to me is finding and selling pics that only this camera can take.
Archiver
Mentor
Back in the early 90s, I bought a Japanese Fender Stratocaster, the Malmsteen signature version. Cost me a bomb, but was still about half or two thirds the price of an American Fender. As a starry eyed youngster, I completely ignored the super poor quality of the scalloping in the fretboard. It is so uneven, it's like they gave the neck to a 10 year old kid to make, I am not kidding. I still have it, and am sometimes tempted to rescallop the neck myself, or send it to a luthier to scallop professionally.
As for the Pixii, the images our host has posted look great. I'd be happy with that quality.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
"Cuts" is a matter of perspective, nomenclature, and semantics. I take cuts to mean that they had items on a requirements spec that had to be dropped for one reason or another. Cuts are most common when doing development of an upgrade or follow-on product ... A few people have ideas which simply don't work out to be practical for one reason or another.
Since the Pixii was being designed from scratch, who's to say that the requirements (either marketing or functional) were not written to match what a thoughtful group of engineers after proper consideration felt matched the design ideas of whoever first started the project and did the first sketch out of a camera? It's quite possible that all the things people here are considering "cuts" were considered and dismissed as being out of range of the functional and marketing spec in the first place. No one here can make a credible assertion one way or another.
I worked on several new products that met or exceeded every/all of the marketing and functional requirements of the original concept. There were no "cuts" ever made: the products did what the original concept had in mind successfully. A couple of them included new things that came up during the course of development as being achievable add-ons... Of course, those original concepts were usually put together by fairly experienced people who made excellent, conservative judgements about the what and how of the products they were after.
G
cboy
Well-known
To OP: How is the build quality of the Pixii? If more reviews turn out to be good then i might be interested in getting the ver. 2 when or if ever comes out, and if they EVER bump up the megapixel count. At that price range i imagine ppl might feel short changed with the MP..
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Those are significant points you've made which do give the camera an advantage.
I'll add that I don't see the 12MP sensor as necessarily limiting. My D700 has 12MP and I've never said, "Gee, this photo would've been better with more pixels." That the D700 still has a devoted following 12 years after its release shows that modest sensors of good quality are what matters.
For a first camera effort from a brand new camera company, its excellent.
Of course established camera companies, Leica, Nikon, Canon have better build quality.
If you buy the Pixii, its an adventure to relearn things the Pixii way of photography.
While many things are familiar such as the M mount and optical RF/VF,
-- the controls, menu system, built in memory, the Pixii way of photography may take some effort to get used to.
I wish the controls were more traditional, but they are not, so I just have to get used to it.
Imagine buying new one of first Nikons, Canons, Minoltas or Leicas ever made.
The first production run Pixii is yours now for the buying.
A future collectible? I think so. There has never been a M camera like this one.
I always loved quiet shutters, still finally getting a virtually silent shutter has me double checking to make sure I actually took the pic.
Never thought that would happen.
Stephen
boojum
Mentor
In 18 months there have been changes. Look at Burling's review for a few luminescent pics in the part where he photographs the fellow photographing the horse. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9lspknmcM&t=3s) Also note the photos where he is discussing the "color science." Color me biased but I would say these photos have great color and seem to have the luminescence Burling talks about.
As for the future of the Pixii I would guess that Barth has a full frame on paper at least. Do I care that I got the APS-C sensor? No, FF will be upgradeable. Barth seems funded by savvy business folks in that he has the funds to get through some stumbles and has this current camera at 2500 Euros base price with that 26MP APS-C sensor. Lag time has gone from two weeks to three weeks which means either that everyone called in sick or that they have a lot of orders. I'm betting on the latter.
As for the future of the Pixii I would guess that Barth has a full frame on paper at least. Do I care that I got the APS-C sensor? No, FF will be upgradeable. Barth seems funded by savvy business folks in that he has the funds to get through some stumbles and has this current camera at 2500 Euros base price with that 26MP APS-C sensor. Lag time has gone from two weeks to three weeks which means either that everyone called in sick or that they have a lot of orders. I'm betting on the latter.
hap
Well-known
that is really a "different" camera. Video compelling. Probably won't buyone any time soon. but they did put some distance between Leica and PIXII.