Willfo
Member
Sorry, I am inexperienced in the world of rangefinders, so here's yet another topic seeking some gear recommendations!
Why I'm here:
I had never shot with a good rangefinder until recently, when I got to spend time with a Leica M5. I realised I would be happier with a good rangefinder as my daily carry.
Unfortunately, I don't quite have Leica money - with an M5 likely to cost me $4000 AUD (I'm Australian). I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for alternatives? I was looking at the Canon section of the forum as I used to have a Canon SLR I liked.
Things I care about:
Why I'm here:
I had never shot with a good rangefinder until recently, when I got to spend time with a Leica M5. I realised I would be happier with a good rangefinder as my daily carry.
Unfortunately, I don't quite have Leica money - with an M5 likely to cost me $4000 AUD (I'm Australian). I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for alternatives? I was looking at the Canon section of the forum as I used to have a Canon SLR I liked.
Things I care about:
- a 35mm lens and a body for say, $1000 total
- thusly, 35mm framelines
- manual operation
- advance lever, as opposed to knob
- fairly bright focus patch as my eyes struggle sometimes
- at least 1/1000 shutter speed
- and who doesn't care about longevity/reliability, right?
- Whilst it would always be nice to have an inbuilt meter for convenience, I do have a cold shoe meter
- Self-timer
steveyork
Well-known
Consider possibly a Canon 7? It has 35mm frame lines and takes LTM lenses, either Canon, Voigtlander ect.
Or wait patiently until one of the M mount rangefinders appears in your budget, it happens, while maybe at the same time adding a bit to that budget? With the introduction of this new M6, possibly some folks will unload back up/spare bodies to fund the acquisition, and of course the likely/possible coming world wide recession is deflationary. It was only just a couple of years ago you could pick up M2/M4 in user condition < 1000 K. The history of used Leica/camera gear prices over time is that they do modulate some.
Only problem with an older camera is nearly all of them would benefit from a service/cla. More $$.
Or wait patiently until one of the M mount rangefinders appears in your budget, it happens, while maybe at the same time adding a bit to that budget? With the introduction of this new M6, possibly some folks will unload back up/spare bodies to fund the acquisition, and of course the likely/possible coming world wide recession is deflationary. It was only just a couple of years ago you could pick up M2/M4 in user condition < 1000 K. The history of used Leica/camera gear prices over time is that they do modulate some.
Only problem with an older camera is nearly all of them would benefit from a service/cla. More $$.
Welcome to Rangefinder Forum.
A quick search of Australian eBay sold listings suggests typical prices for a working M5 body are closer to $2000 than $4000. Granted this may be more like $3000 by the time you procure a lens, but I'd suggest M5s haven't quite attained the price thresholds of other M models, yet.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...00&LH_PrefLoc=2&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
If you like Canons, you could do worse than one of their 1960s rangefinders. Add a 35mm lens of your choice.
Cheers
Brett (Tassie)
A quick search of Australian eBay sold listings suggests typical prices for a working M5 body are closer to $2000 than $4000. Granted this may be more like $3000 by the time you procure a lens, but I'd suggest M5s haven't quite attained the price thresholds of other M models, yet.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...00&LH_PrefLoc=2&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
If you like Canons, you could do worse than one of their 1960s rangefinders. Add a 35mm lens of your choice.
Cheers
Brett (Tassie)
Voigtlander Bessa R and a 35mm Color Skopar in LTM.
Tricky, for under AUD $1000, looking at recent sales.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...LH_ItemCondition=3000&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
Willfo
Member
Thanks Steve - I will have a look at the Canon 7
Willfo
Member
Thanks Brett - don't forget to add 10% tax when importing the body and lens too, of course
Is there a particular 1960s Canon worth looking into?
Willfo
Member
Unfortunately Bessa R's seem to start at around $900 - although I will keep an eye out and thank you for a lens to look at too.
Thanks Brett - don't forget to add 10% tax when importing the body and lens too, of course
Is there a particular 1960s Canon worth looking into?
Well—if you import an item by post with a customs value (120% of [purchase price + duty + postage] from memory) of over AUD $1000.00 then, you may indeed be charged GST on local entry into Australia. On the other hand, if you buy from overseas via eBay, for instance—they certainly will charge the Low Value GST introduced a few years ago after relentless lobbying by Gerry Effing Harvey. So one might be forgiven for believing there's no way around paying GST any more, as you get caught coming or going.
But actually...there still can be. If you have a camera posted to you from overseas, on arrival in Australia it will still be exempt from GST (and customs duty, if applicable, depending on the type goods involved) providing the customs value is under $1000.00. So...the trick to avoiding GST altogether, is to not purchase via one of the selling platforms such as eBay or Amazon to name two, but rather, to purchase directly from an overseas seller who is not legally obliged to charge the low value GST.
As there is an annual sales threshold of Australian sales for OS sellers that applies before the low value GST kicks in—most small to medium size overseas camera specialists will not exceed this—and, hence, will not have to be registered under the scheme and not have to charge you tax. The beauty of this is that the under $1000.000 exemption for postal importations will still apply to your item when it arrives in Australia, meaning GST will—entirely legally—not be payable either at time of purchase, or time of importation.
It is for this reason that, whenever possible, I will endeavour to either purchase equipment privately from Australian sellers who do not have to charge GST—or alternatively, buy directly from a trusted overseas seller who doesn't meet the threshold for low value GST registration.
I used to purchase 100 foot rolls of film at very good prices from B & H in New York for some years. I no longer do so, because they will now charge GST on sales to Australia. They have a huge annual turnover. Clearly, their Australian sales exceed the registration threshold. (If needed, I now use Freestyle, who don't). If you bought equipment from KEH, for instance, I expect you'd probably be charged GST because they're such a large volume seller to many countries including Australia. But there are some excellent, smaller, firms one can transact with who are not obligated to add GST to your invoice.
I love rangefinders and have certainly handled a few Canons, but have never used one—I mostly use a screw mount Leica or Contax, or one of the miscellaneous other makes I have. The Canons are well loved by various members so I would expect some helpful input to follow. In the meantime, you'll find some useful information within this list of camera types about which the owner of this site, Stephen, has written. There are several links to pages discussing various Canon rangefinders to help get you started.
https://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
Cheers,
Brett
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Personally, I can't bloody stand the Canon 7. It fits all your criteria but it's unnecessarily large, balances poorly on a strap with most lenses, and feels more like a generic mid-60s Japanese SLR in the hand than I like. If you're used to Canon SLRs, that won't be an issue to you, but I do recommend you try to use one for a bit to see how you get on with it. Mine's lived on a shelf for about eight years at this point, which says a lot about how I feel about the thing.
The Canon P is the one most people go for if you want 35mm framelines - it's smaller and feels more Leica-y than the 7 does. The VI-L would probably also be a good choice, but I've never used one myself.
The Canon P is the one most people go for if you want 35mm framelines - it's smaller and feels more Leica-y than the 7 does. The VI-L would probably also be a good choice, but I've never used one myself.
Ok, then it is tough. You kind of have no choice but canon then. Canon P from Japan then and still the color skopar.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Canon P, definitely. The 7 is bigger than the P and it's likely to have an inaccurate or dead meter. The P has 35, 50 and 100mm framelines. Screw mount, so there are plenty of good lenses out there, including those by Canon, which are excellent. Really nice camera, and a bargain I think.
Willfo
Member
Well that's something to think about! I've clearly not imported enough to have learnt the nuances. I will keep an eye out for smaller sellers.
And that website's a great resource, thanks.
Willfo
Member
Thanks Jsrockit, konickon, and coldkennels - seems the Canon P is pretty popular! Definitely a fan of the parallax correcting lines compared to some of the older options.
I was just reading up on the cameraquest articles above and was wondering how it compares to the Canon L1 or VL if anyone knows? In the articles above, both seem highly recommended (although I'm not entirely sure if there is any difference between the l1 and vl except the curtain material).
I was just reading up on the cameraquest articles above and was wondering how it compares to the Canon L1 or VL if anyone knows? In the articles above, both seem highly recommended (although I'm not entirely sure if there is any difference between the l1 and vl except the curtain material).
Out to Lunch
Menteur
I'd save up a bit more and buy a Bessa R3A or R3M. Cheers, OtL
boojum
Mentor
What you want is something with a good sensor that you can hang a good lens from. Get that right and all you have to do is provide content. Yeah, the content is the hard part. You can practice with a cheaper camera. That might be a good idea. FWIW I had a lot of fun with a Pentax Q-S1 which is a ridiculously petite camera that takes great pictures: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...1&_sacat=31388
and a photo: https://flic.kr/p/2j46nDr
Just a thought.
and a photo: https://flic.kr/p/2j46nDr
Just a thought.
Willfo
Member
They look like lovely cameras but seems I would be looking at minimum $3000, which is a tough price point for me to reach
Is this a reply to a different thread?
boojum
Mentor
Not at all. He is searching for Unobtanium. Perhaps he should slip back into reality. Get a camera and find out if it is a useful tool. Then go out and blow the egg money on something expensive. What he wants now seems pretty unrealistic. Reality may suck but it is unavoidable so long as one stays sane. First we crawl, the we stagger, then we start staggering steps into regular walking. It applies in a lot of areas. The alternative is a bunch of rabbit holes with nothing in them. Not my choice but his. Good luck.
I'll tell you this, the Q-S1 worked great for me to run out and play with before I blew the egg money on Leicas. But, not my choice. My point is the the thread starter could be out taking photos for a small amount rather than wishing he had a camera for a large amount. Very simple choice, for me. It does seem insurmountable for others. Oh, well.
Willfo
Member
Thanks for the advice I guess, but I am not looking for a digital camera. Nor am I looking to learn whether a camera is a useful tool, or how to take a photo. I own other cameras and have been doing this for quite some time.
What I don't know so much about is the world of film rangefinders - which I have already tested and decided I want to be a part of. As per this discussion there seem to be quite a few options in my price range, which is great for my bank account, and suits me as whatever I pick up will definitely get some scrapes as an everyday carry.
What I am trying to do is 'take my first steps' (to follow the metaphor) into a different scene of camera history and the responders here have been very helpful in pointing me towards areas of interest, for which I thank them