Huss
Mentor
So I got a bee under my bonnet, as one is wont to do, and decided that I needed to experience the joys of the Widelux. Where to get one? I first tried the usual sources - WTB on this site etc - before having to scour ebay due to lack of results.
Normally I have had great result with other gear, but this time..
Camera #1 - a Widelux 7 from Roberts camera . Camera looked great and seemed to work great testing with no film, but the film counter would not reset. Sent back, and they were nice enough to send a mailing slip so I would not have to pay for return postage.
Camera #2 - another Widelux 7 from Wizcam in NY. They claimed they just did a full CLA on it (they also sell the CLA service for $175) and it looked really good. Put a roll of film in it, it broke after the second exposure. As in a grinding sound of gears and the lens turret would only rotate half way. Sent back, but I had to pay return postage. Not sure if I could recommend them for a CLA, or maybe it was just bad luck.
Camera #3 - a mint Widelux 8. The priciest of the lot but this one is perfect and smooooooth. Shot a roll, no issues, looking forward to the results so I can compare it to my Horizon Perfekt and Noblex 135.
I feel that these cameras, more than any other I have experienced, really require a return policy when buying. No "As Is" as very few people want to work on them.
Normally I have had great result with other gear, but this time..
Camera #1 - a Widelux 7 from Roberts camera . Camera looked great and seemed to work great testing with no film, but the film counter would not reset. Sent back, and they were nice enough to send a mailing slip so I would not have to pay for return postage.
Camera #2 - another Widelux 7 from Wizcam in NY. They claimed they just did a full CLA on it (they also sell the CLA service for $175) and it looked really good. Put a roll of film in it, it broke after the second exposure. As in a grinding sound of gears and the lens turret would only rotate half way. Sent back, but I had to pay return postage. Not sure if I could recommend them for a CLA, or maybe it was just bad luck.
Camera #3 - a mint Widelux 8. The priciest of the lot but this one is perfect and smooooooth. Shot a roll, no issues, looking forward to the results so I can compare it to my Horizon Perfekt and Noblex 135.
I feel that these cameras, more than any other I have experienced, really require a return policy when buying. No "As Is" as very few people want to work on them.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Very difficult to work on. I've had my F7 for 35 years. No problems. Usual culprit is banding, where the turret does not rotate smoothly, causing vertical bands of erratic exposure.
photomoof
Fischli & Weiss Sculpture
I have experience with a brand new Widelux, they either work or they don't, if they are banding step away.
Buy a working camera, from a photographer who has tired of it.
Or just use your iPhone and get it out of your system.
Buy a working camera, from a photographer who has tired of it.
Or just use your iPhone and get it out of your system.
Swift1
Mentor
Huss
Mentor
Yup, I read up on that.
Funny thing is that the Horizon Perfekt in many ways is far superior in operation than the Widelux. You cannot set the shutter or aperture until you advance the film (those controls remain hidden until you do so). The VF is centrally located. The VF has a level that is visible looking through it. The wind mechanism is quieter and uses a lever instead of a knob. It has a greater shutter and aperture range.
Downsides - it is much harder to load. It is built much worse.
The Noblex seems to be mid way in design between the two.
I'm looking forward to getting my film back to see how the lenses compare across the three cameras. The Noblex 150 (using 120 film) is stunning, let's see how the 135 compares.
Swift1
Mentor
I have a Horizon 202 as well as a Widelux F7 (borrowed indefinitely), and agree that the Horizon has some improved features over the Widelux. Although, te level bubble on my Horizon seems nearly useless.
The Widelux is so much better built though, ad much quieter.
I think the Widelux has a slight edge over the Horizon in terms of image quality, but the Horizon is quite good.
Horizons are still available new, whereas most Widelux have seen a fair amount of use.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Not too surprising that the Widelux 8 was in better shape than the 7, since the 8 is newer. My personal answer to the whole thing is XPAN!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Crapshoot describes buying a Widelux ... or lucky dip!
I was lucky to pick up an 8 for a few hundred dollars a while ago from eBay ... in mint condition and no issues that I've diiscovered. Definitely the most unique camera I've ever used.
I was lucky to pick up an 8 for a few hundred dollars a while ago from eBay ... in mint condition and no issues that I've diiscovered. Definitely the most unique camera I've ever used.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
And I forgot to mention .... I have two. Also bought a 7 because it's hard to stop at one!
x-ray
Mentor
I had a Widelux 7 that I bought used about 20 years ago. It was mint and worked fine for several years. Eventually it started handing and required service which fixed it for a few month. Over time it was in the shop three or four times for banding and I eventually sold it.
I then bought one of the original metal Horizons that worked flawlessly for many years. They're rough and look like they were forged on an anvil but it worked perfectly and was sharp. I sold the Horizon and bought a new Perfektion which has worked flawlessly for years. I recently was in a junk shop and picked up a nce condition 202 for $25 that also works perfectly.
Sorry I disagree that the Widelux is made better. It might be chrome plated and shiny but they are delicate and many give a lot of problems. The Russian cameras aren't as pretty although the Perfektion is really nice looking and they hardly ever give any problems. If the Widelux were better built and designed they wouldn't malfunction as frequently.
As to optics, I've shot hundreds of rolls through the F7 and Perfektion and a few dozen through the 202 and enlarging them in the darkroom I can't see any difference in sharpnes or contrast. The Russian panorama cameras are exceent and cheap enough you can throw them away if they break.
The secret to loading them is to disengage the winding sprocket and take up drum by pressing in the rewind button on the bottom before you load the film. When you thread the film make certain the leader goes under the first roller/guide and then over the drum and under the sprocket and under and around the take up drum. Sounds complicated bi I can load one in 30 seconds. If you disengage the transport by pressing in the rewind button it loads almost as easily as any slr.
I then bought one of the original metal Horizons that worked flawlessly for many years. They're rough and look like they were forged on an anvil but it worked perfectly and was sharp. I sold the Horizon and bought a new Perfektion which has worked flawlessly for years. I recently was in a junk shop and picked up a nce condition 202 for $25 that also works perfectly.
Sorry I disagree that the Widelux is made better. It might be chrome plated and shiny but they are delicate and many give a lot of problems. The Russian cameras aren't as pretty although the Perfektion is really nice looking and they hardly ever give any problems. If the Widelux were better built and designed they wouldn't malfunction as frequently.
As to optics, I've shot hundreds of rolls through the F7 and Perfektion and a few dozen through the 202 and enlarging them in the darkroom I can't see any difference in sharpnes or contrast. The Russian panorama cameras are exceent and cheap enough you can throw them away if they break.
The secret to loading them is to disengage the winding sprocket and take up drum by pressing in the rewind button on the bottom before you load the film. When you thread the film make certain the leader goes under the first roller/guide and then over the drum and under the sprocket and under and around the take up drum. Sounds complicated bi I can load one in 30 seconds. If you disengage the transport by pressing in the rewind button it loads almost as easily as any slr.
Wongler
Member
I'm excited and now scared. Im expecting a F7 to arrive tomorrow. I hope it turns out to be a keeper.
Huss
Mentor
You may have a point. Funny thing about my Horizon Perfekt is that I found out that the latch on the back door doesn't actually latch! Friction keeps it closed, as the latch mechanism is too short to catch. I was pulling up on the rewind knob to open that back, the way you do on pretty much all 35mm film cameras, with out having to! I think I will get a piece of velcro and use that as a back up to make sure it does not accidentally open.
The fatter shape of the Perfekt makes it much easier to hold w/o getting your fingers in the shot compared to the Widelux.
I am getting better at loading the Horizon, as I figured out a while back to push in the rewind button to allow the film to thread easier. The Noblex and Widelux are just much easier to load, not that it really matters.
Anyway, I'll be getting the film back from the Widelux and Noblex 135, and will be able to compare the picture quality between the three.
p.s. the Horizon Perfekt is much quieter (and quicker) to wind than the Widelux, and is about as quiet to shoot. The Noblex is the quietest.
Huss
Mentor
Not too surprising that the Widelux 8 was in better shape than the 7, since the 8 is newer. My personal answer to the whole thing is XPAN!
The thing with the Xpan is that it does not have that sweeping feeling, which makes sense as it does not do that.
It only gives a 71 or 94 degree horizontal field of view depending on whether you use the 45 or 30mm lens.
The swingers give a minimum of 120 degree view. That is a huge difference.
Also, the swingers are just as sharp in the absolute farthest edges as they are in the center, as the best part of the lens is used over the entire image as it swings across the frame.
So no, the Xpan is not the answer.
agfa100
Well-known
I have both a Horizon 202 and a Noblex 135U, the Horizon works, the lens is sharp. While the Noblex is a camera with a full set of shutter speeds and the small amt of shift if you have a U. The Widelux I have thought about, but like a number of people have said they tend to be more of a crap shoot then the other two so I never went there.
wbill
wbill
Greybeard
Member
I have both the Horizon 202 and Widelux F7. There is no question in my mind that the Widelux is the better built camera. I have probably put 100 rolls of film through the two; 70% through the Widelux.
The lens quality is similar with an edge to the Widelux by my eye.
The Horizon has reflective metal somewhere in the optical path and flares strongly if the sun is anywhere in the frame. The Horizon also has a nasty habit of tearing the film completely in two at inconvenient moments.
The Horizon has the same crude feel in use as the Zenit SLR's. I keep waiting for some piece of plastic to break and no longer take the Horizon with me on travel.
When I first received the Widelux I had it serviced Precision Camera in Chicago. Bob Watkins there did a fine job and the camera has functioned reliably since.
I view my Widelux as a precision instrument and am willing to take simple measures to ensure its reliable function. It is important to store the Widelux upright if it is to be out of use for an extended period and regularly wind and fire the camera in order to keep lubricants where they belong. I keep the Widelux its own plastic food bag in my camera bag when I carry it - this is to keep bit of extraneous stuff from getting caught in the turret mechanism.
Huss
Mentor
I think there is a big difference in build quality between the 202 and the Perfekt. The Perfekt feels less fragile than my F8, but of course the rear door does not lock as it should! The F8 really does feel like a precision instrument but it also is far less ergonomically correct design.
Here are my three lined up:
The Noblex and Perfekt are really easy to just grab and shoot, without having to pay too much attention where your fingers are because the bodies are fat and curved in the right spots. Your fingers naturally rest in the correct place.
The Widelux is thin and angular, and I really have to set up my finger positioning to make sure they do not get into the shot.
As also can be seen, the Widelux only has three speeds, and the aperture goes up to f11. But it is still an art deco joy to behold, and is the camera that The Dood uses so I had to experience it myself.
raid
Dad Photographer
I chose the iPhone option as an alternative to buying a Widelux.
Huss
Mentor
You mean like this?
The Widelux does not do that? That would be a serious bonus. I'm wondering if the Noblex does that too.
I've never had the film tear. Ya just gotta be smooth with it and stop once you have taken 21 pics on a 36 exp roll.