back row: Zeiss 8.5 cm /2 Sonnar LTM 2839309, 3.5cm /2.8 LTM Biogon # 3008911 on camera
front row: 5cm /1.5 Sonnar LTM # 2899019, 5cm /2 Sonnar LTM # 2805562, 5cm /2 Sonnar LTM # 2805575, 5m /2 Sonnar Contax mount # 3023360 mounted on Contax to Leica Screw mount adapter - which appears to be of same vintage. All lenses are coated T lenses. All are wartime Zeiss serial numbers. Whether they were assembled post war in Russian factories or original Zeiss is entirely a different question.
Close up of Contax mount # 3023360 mounted on Contax to Leica Screw mount of adapter, RF coupled adapter for Contax 5cm lenses - no outer bayonet for wides and teles.
This version Contax to Leica screw mount "Orion" adapter appears to be very unusual.
Stephen
That is an Interesting collection!
LeicaFoReVer
Addicted to Rangefinders
Beautiful history! Beautiful collection!
Are they for sale?
Are they for sale?
bennyng
Benny Ng
Impressive and highly desirable!
Any chance of more close up of the 5cm f/1.5 so that the rest of us can use it for referencing when trying to determining the real McCoy from the clones?
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Any chance of more close up of the 5cm f/1.5 so that the rest of us can use it for referencing when trying to determining the real McCoy from the clones?
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
photovdz
Well-known
most interesting...
2800000 lenses are from the grey period, but they look complete and German to me... part of those batches were ZKised but what is CZJ marked is true CZJ... There are evidence that some part of the batch 285.... were completed before the end of the war.
I would love to have a 8,5... to complete my kit ;-)
the adapter is rare indeed... it's of unknown type to me...
3000000 lenses should be Jena made, around 1947...
I have seen a picture of HCB in New York around 1948 using a IIIc with an adapter and a biogon 3,5... but it was an adapter with outer bayonet (and may be no rf cam)....
2800000 lenses are from the grey period, but they look complete and German to me... part of those batches were ZKised but what is CZJ marked is true CZJ... There are evidence that some part of the batch 285.... were completed before the end of the war.
I would love to have a 8,5... to complete my kit ;-)
the adapter is rare indeed... it's of unknown type to me...
3000000 lenses should be Jena made, around 1947...
I have seen a picture of HCB in New York around 1948 using a IIIc with an adapter and a biogon 3,5... but it was an adapter with outer bayonet (and may be no rf cam)....
Jonathan
Established
Interesting thread. Have been lurking here for a while, but not posted!
The 50mm f2, 2nd from left on front row looks exactly the same as one that I have sent to Malcolm Taylor. He has confirmed that the glass is wartime Zeiss.
All the Best Jon
The 50mm f2, 2nd from left on front row looks exactly the same as one that I have sent to Malcolm Taylor. He has confirmed that the glass is wartime Zeiss.
All the Best Jon
oftheherd
Mentor
Really nice looking collection.
It's interesting that the collapsible 5cm f2 Sonnars have a new housing for the optics module. The knurling is different from the barrel of the Contax mount collapsible lenses. SO: someone made a new mount, helical and barrel, for the optics modules. Now I need to go look at some Contax mounts left over from conversions and determine why one would not reuse them with a focus mount made for a Summar or Summitar. The adapter for the post-war 5cm F2 CZJ (SN 302xxxx) "Kind Of" looks like a focus mount for a Summar. The old DOF scale would have to be replaced, and the new one engraved in its place. Hard to tell without having it side-be-side with a Summar.
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dexdog
Mentor
Brian, I have a collapsible 50/2 in LTM (not for sale, however) if you are interested in looking one over. It has good glass and appears to focus properly. For some reason it can be turned past the point of close focus- you can feel it crossing over the bump, similar to the close-focus feature on the LTM Nikkor. The lens looks very much like the ZK 50/2 collapsible, althouugh the one I have is listed in the Theile book as being CZJ manufacture in 1947.
Can you post some pictures of it?
I suspect that the extension of the tube of the collapsible Contax mount lens is not optimal for an LTM lens as the flange distance is different. So if you go through the trouble of making a focus mount, the collapsible tube is easy.
I suspect that the extension of the tube of the collapsible Contax mount lens is not optimal for an LTM lens as the flange distance is different. So if you go through the trouble of making a focus mount, the collapsible tube is easy.
dexdog
Mentor
Mine looks pretty much like the two shown in Cameraquest's post, right down to the mix of metals used to construct the body.
I'm thinking we need a thread on Zeiss Variations, especially the LTM lenses.
I'll start sifting though pictures of the ones I've worked on. Some oddball stuff.
I've seen some custom conversions of 5cm f2- heavy, rigid brass mounts with the company name on them. And then saw a copy of it in aluminum.
I'll start sifting though pictures of the ones I've worked on. Some oddball stuff.
I've seen some custom conversions of 5cm f2- heavy, rigid brass mounts with the company name on them. And then saw a copy of it in aluminum.
photovdz
Well-known
There is another problem in those LTM lenses... the focal length is not the same as a leica lens...
Zeiss did not recompute the lens in order to produce another 5cm... and If I remember the contax "5cm" is somewhat longer than the leica "5cm". Meaning that you cannot exactly use the cam translation in "native" mode like in Leica lenses... you need to adapt in some way, specially if you are playing with great apertures. (adapt or choose a best side ... far or close focus)
The contax internal bayonet is an exemple of native focus travel... meaning that you don't need to have a focusing mount on the lens... the leitz solution is an hybrid since there is a focusing ring but only to send a "natural" travel information to the cam...
(other exemple : the perfex family)
Zeiss did not recompute the lens in order to produce another 5cm... and If I remember the contax "5cm" is somewhat longer than the leica "5cm". Meaning that you cannot exactly use the cam translation in "native" mode like in Leica lenses... you need to adapt in some way, specially if you are playing with great apertures. (adapt or choose a best side ... far or close focus)
The contax internal bayonet is an exemple of native focus travel... meaning that you don't need to have a focusing mount on the lens... the leitz solution is an hybrid since there is a focusing ring but only to send a "natural" travel information to the cam...
(other exemple : the perfex family)
photovdz
Well-known
to Stephen.... the K that holds the biogon is nice too (showman ? ;-)
My 272 series and 285 series 5cm F1.5 Sonnars seem to do quite well across full range when used wide-open, better than the adapted lenses and the J-3's. I need to do a test with graph paper to check the focal length against a Leitz lens and a Contax mount lens.
It is possible to slightly reduce the focal length of a Sonnar be moving the rear group in slightly. Do that, then adjust the main shim- it is possible to adjust focus across full range. You need to reduce the focal length by 0.5mm, or about 1%. It is possible that Sonnars made specifically for LTM were cherry-picked or adjusted slightly.
It is possible to slightly reduce the focal length of a Sonnar be moving the rear group in slightly. Do that, then adjust the main shim- it is possible to adjust focus across full range. You need to reduce the focal length by 0.5mm, or about 1%. It is possible that Sonnars made specifically for LTM were cherry-picked or adjusted slightly.
photovdz
Well-known
there is a 2700000 that just surfaced on Sylvain Hagand's site http://www.collection-appareils.fr
it's a light alloy version, so mine in 272xxxx is really a one off ? (it weights 250gr, 100gr more than the light ones...)
it's a light alloy version, so mine in 272xxxx is really a one off ? (it weights 250gr, 100gr more than the light ones...)
Marc James Small
Member
CZJ LTM Lenses and Adapter
CZJ LTM Lenses and Adapter
Stephen
That is a very nice collection! I will ensure that the numbers are forwarded to the Zeiss Lens List. (For those of you who are not aware, the originator of that List, Charlie Barringer, died several weeks ago. The List will be maintained but the details are still being resolved.)
I would appreciate more information on the adapter. It appears quite similar to the British Cook & Perkins adapter, arguably the finest such adapter to appear at the time, the Japanese Orion being the other contender.
You guys really do need to pick up a copy of my book on non-Leitz LTM lenses, as a lot of this book is devoted to the CZJ LTM lenses.
Marc
CZJ LTM Lenses and Adapter
Stephen
That is a very nice collection! I will ensure that the numbers are forwarded to the Zeiss Lens List. (For those of you who are not aware, the originator of that List, Charlie Barringer, died several weeks ago. The List will be maintained but the details are still being resolved.)
I would appreciate more information on the adapter. It appears quite similar to the British Cook & Perkins adapter, arguably the finest such adapter to appear at the time, the Japanese Orion being the other contender.
You guys really do need to pick up a copy of my book on non-Leitz LTM lenses, as a lot of this book is devoted to the CZJ LTM lenses.
Marc
photovdz
Well-known
Got one already...
I'm ready to take my part in the maintenance of the list...
even if by profession I'm a bit more hypothetical than an engineer (a sociologist makes the number speak too)...
I'm ready to take my part in the maintenance of the list...
even if by profession I'm a bit more hypothetical than an engineer (a sociologist makes the number speak too)...
More Adapter Pics
More Adapter Pics
[
I can find no marking on the adapter indicating manufacturer. However it does seem to be very similar in materials and workmanship to the Zeiss Leica screw mount lenses pictured at the start of this thread. It seems to be of all aluminum alloy construction - no brass helical. This could be consistent with wartime materials shortages.
Side by side an original postwar Orion adapter, its obvious the Orion is of much higher quality in terms of both materials and precision.
Does anyone know who first produced rangefinder coupled Contax to Leica screw mount adapters?
Stephen
More Adapter Pics
[
I can find no marking on the adapter indicating manufacturer. However it does seem to be very similar in materials and workmanship to the Zeiss Leica screw mount lenses pictured at the start of this thread. It seems to be of all aluminum alloy construction - no brass helical. This could be consistent with wartime materials shortages.
Side by side an original postwar Orion adapter, its obvious the Orion is of much higher quality in terms of both materials and precision.
Does anyone know who first produced rangefinder coupled Contax to Leica screw mount adapters?
Stephen
Dear photovdz,
do you mean this discussion:
http://www.collection-appareils.fr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=79432
Perhaps, if your mother tongue is French, you could translate the essential points for the english-speaking majority here
