What is the Rarest Nikon RF Lens?

[wes loder]

Thoughts on 35 and other rare lens

Thoughts on 35 and other rare lens

I believe this discussion of the earliest 35mm f3.5 W-Nikkor for the RF Nikons is not getting anywhere at this point and is certainly off topic for this thread. I would be happy to discuss this personally further via e-mail <[email protected]>. Let me know.

But to return to the thread, how about a "production" lens of which there may exist only one, or maybe two or three?
The 1956 "R-Nikkor."
NK designed the first Micro-Nikkor as a lens for 35mm reproduction work, similar to that of an APO-Nikkor. Indeed, the first statements claimed that the lens was an apochromat. The first pictures (such as the one that Wolbarst wrote up for Modern Photography) show the beauty ring with a label of "R-Nikkor" and a serial number of 523001—the first in the regular production series for the Micro-Nikkor. Was this a once-off? Actually a prototype? or did NK change its mind almost immediately and go with "Micro-Nikkor" to better define the lens' use in microfilming? Anyone ever find another lens with the "R-Nikkor?" label? Where is that lens now? Now that would be a find. Cheers, WES

 

[CameraQuest]

Steve: Go to the National Archives in College Park Maryland and look at the records yourself if you doubt their "Proof." Sometimes "conventional wisdom" can be simply wrong.
Did you even read my last response? I noted that Nikon Inc., itself listed the 35mm f3.5 as coming out in March 1950 on the company's own web page. You are relying on fifty-year-old memories, not on documents. I am relying on documents, not on some company veteran recalling "Oh, yeah, we had the 35mm lens back then."
As for the 1947 fisheye lens, NK included a photograph of the lens in their booklet for the SCAP authorities. Neither NK or SCAP ever claimed that the lens was available or in production, just that the company had prototyped and was "capable" of making such a lens. That is not an "inaccurate" statement as you maintain. The booklet also included the Nikoflex, and we all know what happened to that camera.
A lot of false information went out about the early days of the Nikon camera. Some of that misinformation was deliberately sowed out by Ehrenreich to enhance his own reputation. The Oft-made Statement that SCAP banned the "Export" of the Nikon One is definitely false—as proved by research in contemporary publications, interviews with Liholm and Gasser and SCAP records, yet you have never gotten around to correcting that statement in your own web pages on the Nikon One.
What is possibly true is that the Nikon camera was not allowed to be sold through the CPO (military exchanges stores). But that is not the same "export."
To return to the 35mm f3.5 W-Nikkor. SCAP optical production records appear to have picked up and listed items when the various companies finished them and moved them to an availability-for-sale status. Which would mean that the 35mm Nikkor was not "Available" prior to April 1950. That does not mean that NK had not manufactured 35mm optics prior to 1950, it just means that a customer (whole-sale or retail) could not buy one.
NK manufactured a bunch of 80mm lenses for its Nikoflex, but they do not appear on SCAP records because NK never actually made the camera. They would have appeared on the Aires Camera entry when that camera appeared on the SCAP lists.
Please read through all my past entries on this topic. I am not relying on hazy memories, wishful thinkng or even just on optical production reports from SCAP, but a wide range of sources. When I first read the production reports, I was as surprised as you appear to be to find the 35mm lens not appearing until 1950, but then I went back and compared the records with all the other information I was gathering and what other contemporary writers was stating, and I had to reach the conclusion I have.
You may "wish" to believe that a person buying a Nikon in the fall of 1948 could buy a 35, or a 135 in addition to any normal that the camera came with, but it did not happen that way. NK planned to sell the 35mm lens, may have advertised it that way and even believed that would have that lens available "Real-soon-now," but it did not happen. Unless you, or Bob or someone else can show me a receipt for a delivered, production 35mm w-Nikkor dating prior to 1950, I will stick to my position.

WES

Hi Wes,

I'm happy you, or anyone else, is researching the early Nikons and their lenses. I'm fine with whatever position you care to believe regarding them. What I do care about is you representing your theories as established fact on my site when they are not. Saying you have a theory or belief is one thing, but steadfastly maintaining your theory about 1st 35mm lens production is right and established early Nikon Rangefinder history is wrong is quite another.

First of all its disrespectful to all the historians who worked hard on putting Nikon Rangefinder history together. How could they have missed something like that ? Very serious Nikon Rangefinder collecting has been around at least since the 1970's. There was ample opportunity to interview the people who worked on the Nikon One before their passing.

1) the earliest 35/3.5's serial numbers start with 612, suggesting December of 1946. Why would that serial number be delayed and not used during M production of 1950 ? SFAIK that was not done with any other lens, so why the 35mm serial numbers ?

2) the earliest 35mm, 50mm 85mm and 135mm all share the same production characteristics: hand MACHINED rear caps and hoods, and very heavy duty front cap. These expensive items were soon replaced by stampings. Why would a 35mm lens 1st introduced in 1950 have the early machined front and back caps of the 1948 lenses ? Obviously a 1950 lens would have period lens caps, not machined 1948 rear lens caps.

3) if you add up the MIOJ lenses in Bob's book, 35mm MIOJ production is consistent with the other early 85 and 135 lenses. That is unlikely if 35mm lenses started production in 1950

4) The two Nikon ONE brochures on Nikon's site both list the 35/3.5.
In fact, the 35/3.5 and 135/4 lenses are listed at the first Nikon One lenses besides the 50's.

Furthermore brochure B specifically says "five lenses being available" referring to the 50/2, 50/3.5, 35/3.5, 85/2, and 135/4.
see http://www.nikon.com/about/feelnikon/recollections/r03_e/index.htm I can't believe they would list the 35/3.5 with the Nikon One unless it was available for sale.

5) The fisheye lens you refer to may have existed. It depends upon what they were calling a fisheye. As I understand it, the first Nikon fisheye lens was for the sky camera, vintage 1948 according to the NHS Journal. A few sky cameras were in fact produced.

Wes, you may not believe the two Nikon One brochures represent accurate information concerning 35mm lens production, but its a very safe bet that most serious Nikon collectors take the info in the Nikon One brochures at its face value.

Best,
Stephen

Nikon Rangefinder Newbies: its essential you buy Bob Rotoloni's The Complete Nikon Rangefinder Book - its the Bible for Nikon RF collecting! http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-...-1&keywords=Complete+Nikon+Rangefinder+System

 

[enasniearth]

Rare and early Nikon

Rare and early Nikon

Thanks for the link to the early brochures which were quite interesting .

The first Nikon one brochure A. Lists the 5 cm 1.5 for sale with the first lenses for the Nikon one . The 8.5 cm is not listed .
Usually early numbers are based on completed design dates or perhaps introduction .
The 8.5 cm was designed / intoduced jan 1948
The 5 cm 1.5 was designed / introduced may - July 1949
Odd that. 1.5 was listed but the 8.5 was not .

The second brochure B lists the 8.5 cm
Also there is a 5 cm 1.8 availible - however this was a prototype
That did not reach production - the glass types were not availible ( rotoloni )


The 3.5 cm 3.5 design existed as a Nippon kogaku prototype for the prewar canon Hanza camera ( dechert ) perhaps two known . So the optical design is early .

Zeiss and leitz had wide angle lenses of 3.5 cm and 2.8 cm availible prewar .
Any system camera that desired to compete with the German cameras would have to have a 3.5 cm availible at the minimum .

Once nippon kogaku was able to perfect their camera , many innovations followed . I don't think the German industry was prepared for the advanced
Large aperature optics that were developed and introduced at a quick pace .

The early cameras and lenses were produced in a time of shortages of the required materials . Some optical glasses were not availible although prototypes were produced .

Since unlike leitz exacting production records are not availible , exact dates and numbers are difficult to determine .
The idea of using other delivery records does add another dimension to the picture and makes it clearer .

I want to know what happened to the prototype motor driven black dial Nikon s2's
From the NYC show in 1957 .

 

[RafaelCASD]

Thoughts on 35 and other rare lens

Thoughts on 35 and other rare lens

I believe this discussion of the earliest 35mm f3.5 W-Nikkor for the RF Nikons is not getting anywhere at this point and is certainly off topic for this thread. I would be happy to discuss this personally further via e-mail <[email protected]>. Let me know.

But to return to the thread, how about a "production" lens of which there may exist only one, or maybe two or three?
The 1956 "R-Nikkor."
NK designed the first Micro-Nikkor as a lens for 35mm reproduction work, similar to that of an APO-Nikkor. Indeed, the first statements claimed that the lens was an apochromat. The first pictures (such as the one that Wolbarst wrote up for Modern Photography) show the beauty ring with a label of "R-Nikkor" and a serial number of 523001—the first in the regular production series for the Micro-Nikkor. Was this a once-off? Actually a prototype? or did NK change its mind almost immediately and go with "Micro-Nikkor" to better define the lens' use in microfilming? Anyone ever find another lens with the "R-Nikkor?" label? Where is that lens now? Now that would be a find. Cheers, WES

R-Nikkor 5cm 3.5 Z6 F 55mm 3.5 01 _04 by Rafael Batlle, on Flickr

 

[RafaelCASD]

........... The first pictures (such as the one that Wolbarst wrote up for Modern Photography) show the beauty ring with a label of "R-Nikkor" and a serial number of 523001—the first in the regular production series for the Micro-Nikkor. Was this a once-off? Actually a prototype? or did NK change its mind almost immediately and go with "Micro-Nikkor" to better define the lens' use in microfilming? Anyone ever find another lens with the "R-Nikkor?" label? Where is that lens now? Now that would be a find. Cheers, WES

R-Nikkor 5cm 3.5 micro Nikon S2 taken Rayfact mm 4_DSC9350 06 by Rafael Batlle, on Flickr

 

[wes loder]

R-Nikkor 5cm 3.5 Z6 F 55mm 3.5 01 _04 by Rafael Batlle, on Flickr

Well, that makes at least two of them. So when did NK change the mark from "R-Nikkor" to "Micro-Nikkor?" WES

 

[RafaelCASD]

There are some differences, the R-Nikkor has 8 blades, the Micro has 7. There are other minor differences, like position of screws, I fancy that this 523002 lens was sent to the USA for magazine articles, with 523001 staying in Japan. Probably used for the Wolbarst Modern Photography article. of which I have a copy:
.
Someone did not return the 523002 lens to Nikon, and it was lost until posted for sale on e-Bay, I was the lucky buyer and knew the lens was unique, but not how rare. Roland Vink lists the first known Micro Nikkor serial number at 523014, so there may be 10 or so R-Nikkors but not even Nikon shows one in their museum although they show development documents. (If anybody wants mine, it is not for sale but I would trade it for a mint 6mm 5.6 to complement my 8mm 1:8, 7.5mm, 10mm OP, and 8mm 2.8 )

 

[wes loder]

There are some differences, the R-Nikkor has 8 blades, the Micro has 7. There are other minor differences, like position of screws, I fancy that this 523002 lens was sent to the USA for magazine articles, with 523001 staying in Japan. Probably used for the Wolbarst Modern Photography article. of which I have a copy:
.
Someone did not return the 523002 lens to Nikon, and it was lost until posted for sale on e-Bay, I was the lucky buyer and knew the lens was unique, but not how rare. Roland Vink lists the first known Micro Nikkor serial number at 523014, so there may be 10 or so R-Nikkors but not even Nikon shows one in their museum although they show development documents. (If anybody wants mine, it is not for sale but I would trade it for a mint 6mm 5.6 to complement my 8mm 1:8, 7.5mm, 10mm OP, and 8mm 2.8 )

I always thought that the R-Nikkor that appears in John Wolbarst's article (Modern Photography, Aug, 1956) was 523001. Of course the illustration reproduction is so poor it is hard to be sure. Someone decided to make a change between 523002 and 523014. But we may have the rarest Nikkor for the Nikon RF cameras here. The 50 f3.5 that appears in the Nikon Manual is a R-Nikkor. Simon Nathan also wrote up the Micro-Nikkor in one of his 35mm Photography books, but it is definitely a Micro-Nikkor and much later in serial number.

 

[RafaelCASD]

I always thought that the R-Nikkor that appears in John Wolbarst's article (Modern Photography, Aug, 1956) was 523001. Of course the illustration reproduction is so poor it is hard to be sure. Someone decided to make a change between 523002 and 523014. But we may have the rarest Nikkor for the Nikon RF cameras here. The 50 f3.5 that appears in the Nikon Manual is a R-Nikkor. Simon Nathan also wrote up the Micro-Nikkor in one of his 35mm Photography books, but it is definitely a Micro-Nikkor and much later in serial number.

The lens in the article photo ends in 001, what I meant is that the camera and lens photo is a stock photo, likely provided by Nikon. But the lens that Wolbarst used in his test may very well have been 523002.

 

[wes loder]

The lens in the article photo ends in 001, what I meant is that the camera and lens photo is a stock photo, likely provided by Nikon. But the lens that Wolbarst used in his test may very well have been 523002.

I would agree that it is a stock photo. Now who has 523003?

 

[wes loder]

The lens in the article photo ends in 001, what I meant is that the camera and lens photo is a stock photo, likely provided by Nikon. But the lens that Wolbarst used in his test may very well have been 523002.

I note that your lens has the early version of the lens cap with just Nikkor. That appears to have been standard for the early Micro-Nikkors. In contrast to most of the RF lenses that came with the NK logo cap. The early caps with Nikkor have a wider smooth area than the later ones from the Nikon F/2960s era.

 

[RafaelCASD]

I note that your lens has the early version of the lens cap with just Nikkor. That appears to have been standard for the early Micro-Nikkors. In contrast to most of the RF lenses that came with the NK logo cap. The early caps with Nikkor have a wider smooth area than the later ones from the Nikon F/2960s era.

Lens came with no accessories. I added the cap.