paul in AZ
Member
I'm looking to get a Canon L39 body and need some opinions on which one.
My aim is to use it with a 35mm lens in addition to the normal 50mm.
I use glasses.
I first looked at the Canon P but there are a number of comments about difficulty with the 35mm frame lines and glasses.
Next the 7s and also the L2 look useful. Not crazy about my need for or look of the meter on the 7S.
Any others to consider? No Leicas [I had an M3 years ago but never bonded with. it].
The trick seems to be to find one in decent shape, not riddled with fungus, at a sane price. Which of those bodies would best serve me? Also, which is most likely to be reliable?
Comments?
My aim is to use it with a 35mm lens in addition to the normal 50mm.
I use glasses.
I first looked at the Canon P but there are a number of comments about difficulty with the 35mm frame lines and glasses.
Next the 7s and also the L2 look useful. Not crazy about my need for or look of the meter on the 7S.
Any others to consider? No Leicas [I had an M3 years ago but never bonded with. it].
The trick seems to be to find one in decent shape, not riddled with fungus, at a sane price. Which of those bodies would best serve me? Also, which is most likely to be reliable?
Comments?
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I have a Canon 7. Personally, I've never clicked with it. Yes, the 35mm frames are easy enough to see with glasses on, but the body feels oversized and poorly balanced. I took it on a job to a trade show in Vegas some years ago and basically spent three days with it digging into my side or my ribs because the lens I was using (a Jupiter 12) wasn't heavy enough to stop it tipping backwards on the strap. It even has the same problem with something heavier like the Canon 35/1.8 or the collapsible Summicron; it doesn't really balance right until I put a 90mm Elmar on it.
If you can tolerate it, a tripod-mount strap lug will "fix" the problem by allowing you to have a makeshift vertical strap arrangement like the Leica M5. That's the only comfortable way I've found to carry it.
Also, I don't know if this is just my particular Canon 7, but I can see weird patches where the other framelines should be on each focal length setting, and it's really distracting.
I suspect I'd much prefer the L2 in use, but I'm in no rush to track one down, and given my experience with the 7, I'd want to use one in person before I committed to buying it.
If you can tolerate it, a tripod-mount strap lug will "fix" the problem by allowing you to have a makeshift vertical strap arrangement like the Leica M5. That's the only comfortable way I've found to carry it.
Also, I don't know if this is just my particular Canon 7, but I can see weird patches where the other framelines should be on each focal length setting, and it's really distracting.
I suspect I'd much prefer the L2 in use, but I'm in no rush to track one down, and given my experience with the 7, I'd want to use one in person before I committed to buying it.
aizan
Mentor
I'd recommend one with a rotating viewfinder: VL, VL2, VT, VI-T, VI-L, L1, L2, L3.
Make sure the viewfinder is in good condition!
Make sure the viewfinder is in good condition!
dexdog
Mentor
If I could only pick one, I would go for the L-1. Second choice would be the VI-L.
Exploring RF
New at RF
I'm new at this, just 6 months or so ahead of you on the same journey. I haven't tried a P or a 7. I do have a VI-L (from Craigslist), and an L1 and a VL. Many others with way more experience will chime in I'm sure, but here's my not-so-quick take. Maybe I lucked out, but each of my bodies is in excellent shape, and were about $200 - $250 each. Two bought with a 50mm lens each at a slightly higher price maybe.
I have used the "tripod-mount lug" (from Peak Design) to hang my Canons vertically. I very much like the vertical hang with my Bessa T w/Rapid Winder, so I'm pretty dedicated to that...or just a wrist leash.
I use the VI-L with a Voigtlander 25/4, so I only Zone focus and use the Voigtlander Accessory Finder (metal) for framing. Love that. The VI-L patch is OK, but not as good as the L1 or VL, so that's why I use it for Zone focusing with a wide lens.
I love my L1 and VL (purchased one from the Classifieds here). I wear glasses, but often focus with glasses off the face so that really doesn't answer your question. I again use accessory finders because I just love the experience of the bright view. The ease of viewing helps me enjoy the whole experience without frustration. Admittedly, the accessory finders add up the costs quickly. With the L1 and the VL, I set the Finder Selector Dial to MG or RF(?) and put Gaff Tape over the dial so that I focus the patch at the highest magnification. I've read that the Selector Dial scratches glasses, but also that it is the Finder bezel that does the scratching. My glasses are definitely scratched--big bummer. Not in the field of view, but a drag. Beware!
I took the advice of folks here and went with the Canon parallax-correcting Accessory Finders (with the tilting FoV) for 50mm and above (Voigt for 35mm and below). Both these Canons and the Voigtlander VF's are great!
If you only wanted a 35mm & a 50mm, and bought those two accessory finders, the costs aren't too great (compared to Leica for sure). And you've got great LTM lenses to choose from.
Finally, as you likely already know, the experience of handling the Canons is a joy. The fit and mechanical feedback is just lovely. At first, I wondered why that would matter so much to me. I really love the features of my Bessa T. It works fabulously, and it's (relatively) new. Dependable. But, the tactile experience of the Canons has come to matter for me, and the combination of the enjoyment of the fit and feel along with the bright accessory viewfinder make me feel good. That's good enough for me, but I also suspect I get better images because of the tactile/visual experience with the Canons. I relax since I'm not fighting the camera. That may sound like nonsense, but it's real for me.
Enjoy the journey!
I have used the "tripod-mount lug" (from Peak Design) to hang my Canons vertically. I very much like the vertical hang with my Bessa T w/Rapid Winder, so I'm pretty dedicated to that...or just a wrist leash.
I use the VI-L with a Voigtlander 25/4, so I only Zone focus and use the Voigtlander Accessory Finder (metal) for framing. Love that. The VI-L patch is OK, but not as good as the L1 or VL, so that's why I use it for Zone focusing with a wide lens.
I love my L1 and VL (purchased one from the Classifieds here). I wear glasses, but often focus with glasses off the face so that really doesn't answer your question. I again use accessory finders because I just love the experience of the bright view. The ease of viewing helps me enjoy the whole experience without frustration. Admittedly, the accessory finders add up the costs quickly. With the L1 and the VL, I set the Finder Selector Dial to MG or RF(?) and put Gaff Tape over the dial so that I focus the patch at the highest magnification. I've read that the Selector Dial scratches glasses, but also that it is the Finder bezel that does the scratching. My glasses are definitely scratched--big bummer. Not in the field of view, but a drag. Beware!
I took the advice of folks here and went with the Canon parallax-correcting Accessory Finders (with the tilting FoV) for 50mm and above (Voigt for 35mm and below). Both these Canons and the Voigtlander VF's are great!
If you only wanted a 35mm & a 50mm, and bought those two accessory finders, the costs aren't too great (compared to Leica for sure). And you've got great LTM lenses to choose from.
Finally, as you likely already know, the experience of handling the Canons is a joy. The fit and mechanical feedback is just lovely. At first, I wondered why that would matter so much to me. I really love the features of my Bessa T. It works fabulously, and it's (relatively) new. Dependable. But, the tactile experience of the Canons has come to matter for me, and the combination of the enjoyment of the fit and feel along with the bright accessory viewfinder make me feel good. That's good enough for me, but I also suspect I get better images because of the tactile/visual experience with the Canons. I relax since I'm not fighting the camera. That may sound like nonsense, but it's real for me.
Enjoy the journey!
For use with a 35mm focal length lens: The Canon 7 is fine. No accessory shoe- so if you go wider, not easy to mount an external finder. The projected/parallax corrected framelines are nice.
Timmyjoe
Mentor
I've been using a Canon L2 for a while now. Reliable as heck, easy to focus, especially if using 35mm or 50mm lenses. Even has a zoom feature for nailing critical focus.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
newst
Well-known
Another vote for a Canon Lx, my personal preference being the L1 (I own two of them). If you intend to shoot primarily 35mm and 50mm it is set up perfectly for you. One hint, if you wear glasses, go to the plumbing section of your local hardware store and select an o-ring with an inside diameter just large enough to fit over the metal eyepiece. If you find one thick enough to extend past the camera's eyepiece, then perfect. If not, get two (or more) thinner rings. Gorilla Glue will bond these to the camera body securely, yet it can be removed from the metal of the camera later if so required. Those metal eyepieces can be murder on eyeglasses.
paul in AZ
Member
Tim: I've been trying to figure out how to respond to your PM with a PM. No success so here goes.
Seems odd to have the black paint with a textured finish. Is that normal for a re-paint?
Seems odd to have the black paint with a textured finish. Is that normal for a re-paint?
Timmyjoe
Mentor
Hey Paul,
Have been having some issues with the PM's myself. Hopefully it will come thru.
Best,
-Tim
Have been having some issues with the PM's myself. Hopefully it will come thru.
Best,
-Tim
Shac
Well-known
Same for me - Iove my L1. I bought mine because of this article by the head bartender.
https://www.cameraquest.com/crfl1bl.htm
das
Well-known
This may not be the answer you are looking for, but the Leica M2/M4 or M3 just blow all of the Canons out of the water. Sure, the Canon swing back film loading and the variable viewfinders are very cool features unknown to Leicas of the time, they are not enough. Every.time I start snooping around for L1s, VITs or 7s, I just think to myself, I should just shoot the Leicas more often.
Beemermark
Mentor
While I'm a huge M body fan I've also owned quite a few LTM bodies in my time. I do like the Canon earlier bodies that were copies of the the Leica LTM bodies. Simple, fool proof, built like a tank, and cheap. They have only 50mm frame lines but I find it easier to use an external viewfinder (esp. with glasses). Shameless plug I have one posted for sale -
. However nothing beats a Leica IIIF except a Leica M4.
. However nothing beats a Leica IIIF except a Leica M4.paul in AZ
Member
I know I'm supposed to reverently adore Leicas but I had an M3 for many years and we simply didn't click. Leica is not a consideration for me.
das
Well-known
I am definitely not trying to say that Leica is the be-and-end-all of cameras or that they are for everyone. However, to me, the most important feature of a rangefinder camera is having a large, clear, parallax-corrected combined viewfinder/rangefinder. It's just hard to go back to squinty, smaller, non-parallax-corrected and/or darker viewfinders -- and that's why Canon and Nikon rangefinder cameras (or any Barnack camera for that matter) provide no advantage to what I am already using, and in fact, are actually more difficult to use. The Bessas do a pretty good job for what they are, but their recent and drastic increases in price make them less worth it.
Shafovaloff1
Well-known
I have had the VI-L, L-2, L-3, 7, P and still own an L-1, 7SZ and parts 7S. Be particular about the condition of the VI-L finder and frame lines. It is a beautiful camera. The L-1 that I have I reconditioned and has worked reliably and is a beautiful well built camera....but a heavy. It has an 85 mm f1.9 lens attached which is also a work of engineering art. However, I would not like to take it on a weekend hike because of its weight. The Canon 7 is excellent and has essentially the same shutter as the 7S and 7SZ, obviously without the accessory shoe permanently attached. The rangefinder focus mechanism on the three 7s' are very reliable IMHOP and they are lighter than the L's or P. IMHOP the selenium powered meter in the 7 is just fine to use and I thought it more than adequate. I do have hand held meters that I use for spot metering though. The CDS meter in the 7S and 7SZ are good even in lower light conditions. Because the 7 has been a great value IMHOP I would recommend the 7 and if you need the accessory shoe then the 7S or 7SZ but for more bucks. Typically the meter on the 7S and 7SZ may not be functioning and unless you are equipped to remove the top on the camera, tiny screws, and deal with the delicate wires underneath it I would recommend having a professional fix that problem....typically, I have found that using emery on the meter switch contacts is enough to make the repair. I would not go to the trouble converting the battery etc. but just adjust the ASA for any correction needed. Ask a repairman about those details. You could easily adjust the ASA using a NIkon FE or FE2 that is accurate. If the camera has never had the light seals replaced under the clam shell built front and back be prepared to have that done. If you get an L series be advised that the front securing screws, where the light seals underneath have deteriorated, may affect the reliability of the slow speeds. This I found the culprit after thinking something worse was amiss on the L-1. If you do not take the camera on hikes for a day or more my vote is the L-1 or 7 for economy. As far as I can recall all the above have parallax correction built in for automatic corrections as you focus. [Except for the "P"?] My experience has been that so far as the rangefinder patch is concerned, delicately cleaning the mirror, prism and sighting port glass yields great improvement. Just suggest to do it delicately...skip coffee beforehand! And if not inclined have it done by experienced tech, On the VI-L careful not to get cleaning cloth caught on silver strips adhered to the glass outlining the different focal lengths, yikes! ISTRGood luck and have fun!
The prices of all the M Series Leica cameras has skyrocketed in recent years. The Canon bodies have all dropped. I picked up a Canon V-T Deluxe with perfect-glass 50/1.2 for $450 with fitted case not long ago. The lens was more than worth the price alone, and the camera body is near mint.
Mackinaw
Think Different
You may want to consider either a VI-L or VI-T. Parallax-corrected viewfinder frames (50 and 100mm) and, by turning the viewfinder magnifier, you get 35mm. I picked up a mint VI-T a few years back, and it quickly has become one of my favorite rangefinders. Superb build quality too.
Jim B.
Jim B.
Bingley
Mentor
This ^^^^^. I’d also put in a good word for the IVSB and IVSB2. It’s Canon’s counterpart to the Leica IIIf, but has a superior vf w/ three-level magnification. If you like Canon bottom loaders (aka Leica III copies) this is the one to get.
PRJ
Another Day in Paradise
I'm partial to the Canon 7 myself. I have two of them. Easy enough to see with glasses on. The body is a little bigger and it doesn't have a hot shoe, but I prefer it to my Leica M3. I think the 7 gets a bit of a bad rap because they are all old. One of mine was completely gone through and it is smoother than butter. They really are nice cameras. You can often find them with the 50/1.4 Japanese Summilux attached for not that much money. The Canon 7 is one of the best buys in the film world. For what they sell for these days it is a no brainer.