gavinlg
Mentor
Of all the x-pro3 reviews I've seen on the internet, I found this one to be particularly interesting - https://youtu.be/O4zWII0GvE4
The x-pro3 is a super controversial camera, but has a legion of pretty enthusiastic fans. I used an x-pro1 for some time, and it remains my favourite digital camera for most of the reasons he lists - uniqueness in a market that is saturated by dozens of versions of the effectively the same product. Digital leicas have the same appeal, at several times the cost - out of reach for the average person perhaps.
At a time when the digital camera market is swiftly declining, camera companies are scrambling to reorganise their lineups, compete with the smartphone, and respond quick enough to ever changing trends in how we make and see images, is it possible that specialized cameras like the x-pro3 are key to regaining what the standalone camera used to represent?
The x-pro3 is a super controversial camera, but has a legion of pretty enthusiastic fans. I used an x-pro1 for some time, and it remains my favourite digital camera for most of the reasons he lists - uniqueness in a market that is saturated by dozens of versions of the effectively the same product. Digital leicas have the same appeal, at several times the cost - out of reach for the average person perhaps.
At a time when the digital camera market is swiftly declining, camera companies are scrambling to reorganise their lineups, compete with the smartphone, and respond quick enough to ever changing trends in how we make and see images, is it possible that specialized cameras like the x-pro3 are key to regaining what the standalone camera used to represent?
Archiver
Mentor
Interesting question. The market has obviously shifted a lot in the last ten years, with small cameras being eaten by cellphones, and DSLR's giving way to mirrorless, and even those cameras are being eaten by smartphone sales.
Enthusiasts will continue to buy mirrorless cameras, and high end pros will buy DSLR's until mirrorless has truly caught up in terms of performance and after sales service. At the Olympics, Canon and Nikon had departments where registered users could borrow lenses or get fast replacement on malfunctioning gear, or so I'm told. Last year, I met a sports photographer who has not moved to the EOS R simply because it wasn't as reliable for sports as the 1DX III.
There's also a market for hybrid cameras for content creators/YouTubers who want to be able to vlog and take decent photos. Panasonic, Sony and even Canon are starting to cater to this market.
As for specialized cameras like the X-Pro 3, I suspect this is more of a Fuji thing than a strategy that more brands will adopt. The more profitable brands like Canon and Nikon are unlikely to go 'backwards' in design, as they seem to see their market as being mirrrorless derivatives of DSLR's. Sony could do it as it has the resources, but not the history. Pentax is focusing on DSLR's at this time.
Enthusiasts will continue to buy mirrorless cameras, and high end pros will buy DSLR's until mirrorless has truly caught up in terms of performance and after sales service. At the Olympics, Canon and Nikon had departments where registered users could borrow lenses or get fast replacement on malfunctioning gear, or so I'm told. Last year, I met a sports photographer who has not moved to the EOS R simply because it wasn't as reliable for sports as the 1DX III.
There's also a market for hybrid cameras for content creators/YouTubers who want to be able to vlog and take decent photos. Panasonic, Sony and even Canon are starting to cater to this market.
As for specialized cameras like the X-Pro 3, I suspect this is more of a Fuji thing than a strategy that more brands will adopt. The more profitable brands like Canon and Nikon are unlikely to go 'backwards' in design, as they seem to see their market as being mirrrorless derivatives of DSLR's. Sony could do it as it has the resources, but not the history. Pentax is focusing on DSLR's at this time.
Forest_rain
Well-known
The funny thing is the recent "film resurgence", rising demand for film caused Kodak to raise prices. A few years ago, from what I understand, film was simply "out" and people didn't use it at all. But more people are perhaps looking for a more "different" look which film provides, and a different type of feeling and effect, which dSLRs cannot provide and that produces digital images in a similar way to cell phone cameras. Also the "hands on" aspect of film helps one to better understand photography, and appreciate more the work that goes into it, rather than quickly snapping a photo and easily posting it to Facebook.
So we will see if film continues its popularity, but from what I understand from a new digital camera sales standpoint, Canon DSLRs such as the 5D are still the most popular, with mirrorless gaining ground. Fuji has a niche with dedicated fans and a specialized base. The great thing about film, however, is it can provide great images at little start up cost, perhaps one reason why it's becoming more popular recently.
So we will see if film continues its popularity, but from what I understand from a new digital camera sales standpoint, Canon DSLRs such as the 5D are still the most popular, with mirrorless gaining ground. Fuji has a niche with dedicated fans and a specialized base. The great thing about film, however, is it can provide great images at little start up cost, perhaps one reason why it's becoming more popular recently.
Huss
Mentor
I have an Xpro3 and I'm not sure what you mean by it being a specialized camera. What it is, is a very nice AF mirrorless camera that happens to have a hybrid OVF/EVF viewfinder.
It does pretty much everything any other mirrorless camera does.
It does pretty much everything any other mirrorless camera does.
gavinlg
Mentor
I would say it's a camera that encourages the user to use it in a certain way, and that lends itself to specific strengths and weaknesses - the OVF and the hidden screen being the two main features. Maybe it's just me, but I find myself shooting x-pro/x100 series cameras in the same way I shoot my film Leica, when as I tend to shoot DSLRs a little differently.
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
I like the X-Pro3 so much I bought a second one. The presumed universally disliked flip screen is certainly one of its charm points for me. I have several other very nice cameras (including film) but I have to force myself to use them these days because the X-Pro3 makes me so happy.
People talk about the X-Pro3 being a niche camera. Well, I think that’s great! I’m a niche kind of guy. Maybe more on this later, for right now I need to open a bottle of cheap niche wine with a niche bottle opener. Cheers!
All the best,
Mike
People talk about the X-Pro3 being a niche camera. Well, I think that’s great! I’m a niche kind of guy. Maybe more on this later, for right now I need to open a bottle of cheap niche wine with a niche bottle opener. Cheers!
All the best,
Mike
gavinlg
Mentor
Mike, Yes I completely agree, being a niche kind of guy myself. In the review I linked the YouTuber mentioned that the x-pro3 channels some sort of 80s/90s Japanese design mojo where you have kind of a flawed but loveable set of design values - like the hexar AF and Contax G cameras. I have always maintained that the x-pro line is the spiritual successor to the Contax G and the x100 is the successor to the Hexar AF, and not the Leica M as some people claim.
I sure hope so... it is no secret I am an X-Pro and Fuji fan. It seems like the smart move forward, but so many people are quick to judge on the internet when a camera does not conform to the "me too" DSLR shaped mirrorless trend. Unfortunately, digital cameras seem to be judged for specs on paper (like computers) more than on how great of an overall imaging tool they are. It takes companies like Fuji, Leica, and Sigma to buck the trend and make the cameras they truly want to make.
My X-Pro3 and X100V finally arrive to me in Chile this week. usually, I'd travel to the US and buy there. BUT Covid-19. That is one thing I miss about the US... you can get any camera at any time. Here, we are low down on Fuji's priority list. I'm sure I'll love the X-Pro3...
How does demand result in increased prices?
Film never died... this is the wrong group to suggest that in.
This is changing rapidly...
Sure, if you simply buy a cheap film camera and have a lab do "cheap" scans and prints. However, done at a higher level... film photography and digital photography are both very expensive.
So, it is not unique? There are other cameras like it?
In practice it is completely true... almost all of Fuji's higher end ICL cameras owe something to Contax for design cues. The X-T series looks like an RTS even. The X100 is usage is like the Hexar AF... but in appearance, the M3 was certainly an inspiration. I mean look at the levers on both...
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
I had a Contax G2 with a nice set of lenses. A beautiful camera; produced excellent photographs. The only problem was that the G2 was boring. To be clear, it was boring because it was like using a digital camera that used film. Great when it was conceived but not so great after the digital revolution had arrived.
I get the comparison between the X-Pro3 and the G2, I actually think that the build quality of the G2 exceeds that of the X-Pro3. But, be that as it may, the X-Pro3 is the cats meow! Lightning fast AF, great film simulations to choose from, the looks of a rangefinder… the great feel in the hand of a rangefinder. And, those superb Fujinon lenses. Dynomite!
Anyway, let's just say that I like the X-Pro3 a lot.
All the best,
Mike
gavinlg
Mentor
Exciting! We've only just gotten solid stock of both the 100v and the x-pro3 here in NZ as well - every batch that was sent to most dealers here was sold before it even landed in shops for the past few months. I think the fuji gear is far more popular than a lot of people realise. I know the Nikon Z stuff hasn't sold well, and m4/3 sales are dead in the water too, according to my local resellers.
I'm keen to hear your thoughts on the x-pro3 especially John.
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
Blah, blah, blah...
If you love film that's great. This (in my opinion) is not the thread for that conversation.
All the best,
Mike
Anthony Harvey
Well-known
Many thanks for the link, gavinlg, it’s an excellent and thoughtful review. What makes it so special for me is it’s type - more an analysis of the ideas and concepts of picture-taking and how this particular camera suits them, than an account of the camera’s features. I particularly liked the fact that the photographer finds it easier and better to use jpgs than raw, and that the LCD can be hidden, these two things helping him to shoot as he would a film camera, treating the SD card as a film, something I’ve always done myself. A great review, giving a thoughtful conceptual analysis, a sort of philosophy of picture-taking with a few practical details thrown in.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Recently, I was looking at X-Pro2 with 18mm lens as something much reasonable in price and with more versatile in not better OVF.
I'm not sure if downgraded OVF in X-PRO3 gives it state of the art. Fancy fake film label on the back is cute and artsy. Sure. Presets been better than SOOC is new dogma, it seems.
Cameras are still needed for professional photography and those who wants more than mobile phone. Are those with DSLRs and big zooms on sport events are going to ditch for this cutie? I'm not sure. They might prefer cleaner high iso on current FF DSLRs.
Do those who wants to get something more advanced than mobile phone need something which feels like multi-dial chronometer with deep menus? I'm not so sure either.
Fuji is also missing IBIS in such large for APS-C sensor body to be state of the technical art.
To me this camera feels more like slightly overpriced, slightly not as shaped as Leica statement rather than utility.
I prefer less menus and fully rotating screen instead of oddly oriented screen and something I need 10% all of the time as main screen of tiny size.
X-Pro3 is 1799 USD, maybe already possible to find used, but I'm not sure if used ones are dipped down in price as low as X-Pro2 (bellow 600 USD).
Is 1500 USD significantly higher than used M240 price? Not really. But technically so-so cameras as CL/TL2 seems to be too expensive, not only for body itself, but mostly by out of average income price range on nothing special and limited lenses.
And thumbs down for video, BTW. Lousy photography and fashion, rather than technical statements. IMO.
I'm not sure if downgraded OVF in X-PRO3 gives it state of the art. Fancy fake film label on the back is cute and artsy. Sure. Presets been better than SOOC is new dogma, it seems.
Cameras are still needed for professional photography and those who wants more than mobile phone. Are those with DSLRs and big zooms on sport events are going to ditch for this cutie? I'm not sure. They might prefer cleaner high iso on current FF DSLRs.
Do those who wants to get something more advanced than mobile phone need something which feels like multi-dial chronometer with deep menus? I'm not so sure either.
Fuji is also missing IBIS in such large for APS-C sensor body to be state of the technical art.
To me this camera feels more like slightly overpriced, slightly not as shaped as Leica statement rather than utility.
I prefer less menus and fully rotating screen instead of oddly oriented screen and something I need 10% all of the time as main screen of tiny size.
X-Pro3 is 1799 USD, maybe already possible to find used, but I'm not sure if used ones are dipped down in price as low as X-Pro2 (bellow 600 USD).
Is 1500 USD significantly higher than used M240 price? Not really. But technically so-so cameras as CL/TL2 seems to be too expensive, not only for body itself, but mostly by out of average income price range on nothing special and limited lenses.
And thumbs down for video, BTW. Lousy photography and fashion, rather than technical statements. IMO.
Brian Atherton
Well-known
I, for one, am mighty pleased that Fuji did what they did on the X-Pro3 as a replacement for the ‘2’. For me, everything is an upgrade or improvement… even the much criticised OVF, as I can see it much clearer wearing glasses, but truth told I’m not bothered, as I use the EVF exclusively.
Virtually the only downside was having to purchase a separate battery charger.
I recognise in the great scheme of things my needs are niche and the ‘3’ is a niche camera in a niche market. Nevertheless many love it and share my view.
Fuji took an enormous leap of faith with the ‘3’ and choosing to hide the screen, but whether the ‘3’ is successful is down to profitable sales. Ultimately, it’s the bean counters who will decide the fate of any camera.
In this increasingly uncertain world I hope there will be a ‘4’. What would I hope to see? Same body form and size, faster processor (faster AF, faster face recognition), longer battery life (with the current battery), no video, no IBIS.
Virtually the only downside was having to purchase a separate battery charger.
I recognise in the great scheme of things my needs are niche and the ‘3’ is a niche camera in a niche market. Nevertheless many love it and share my view.
Fuji took an enormous leap of faith with the ‘3’ and choosing to hide the screen, but whether the ‘3’ is successful is down to profitable sales. Ultimately, it’s the bean counters who will decide the fate of any camera.
In this increasingly uncertain world I hope there will be a ‘4’. What would I hope to see? Same body form and size, faster processor (faster AF, faster face recognition), longer battery life (with the current battery), no video, no IBIS.
arseniii
Well-known
To me X-Pro3 is pointless. I want to use my M-mount lenses which are manual focus. This will lead me to use EVF and focuspeaking, so no OVF in this scenario.
Fuji's cameras don't talk to me anyways, I just don't like them personally (although they are good, well made cameras)
Fuji's cameras don't talk to me anyways, I just don't like them personally (although they are good, well made cameras)
Orthogonal
Established
I'm flogging a dead horse here, but the design of the XP3 for me is both neither here nor there and weirdly over-engineered. If it had a tilt, fixed, or a fully articulating screen I'd understand, if it has no screen at all like the Pixii I'd understand, but it seems Fuji has somehow picked the worst of all worlds, apparently maximizing both fragility and inconvenience. As a big fan of an old XP1 I was interested in the line of cameras as (like others have mentioned) a modern, forward looking Contax G. The XP2's fake-rangefinder AF LED opening was a bit cringeworthy but I could overlook it, but the XP3 shows a preoccupation with nostalgic role play that has no appeal to me.
In honesty I'm still pretty disappointed and the XP3 is the main reason why I left Fuji, but if it makes them money and people enjoy the cameras, then power to them. It seems that to some people love the XP3 which is great, but it's just not for me.
If they came out with a FF XP4 with the X100V's screen and pumped the brakes on the superficial retro design choices I'd sell up and move over in a second, but that's never going to happen
In honesty I'm still pretty disappointed and the XP3 is the main reason why I left Fuji, but if it makes them money and people enjoy the cameras, then power to them. It seems that to some people love the XP3 which is great, but it's just not for me.
If they came out with a FF XP4 with the X100V's screen and pumped the brakes on the superficial retro design choices I'd sell up and move over in a second, but that's never going to happen
Huss
Mentor
If you want to use M mount lenses get a Leica M.
I have the M adapter for my XP3, but after the initial test of it, I don't use it anymore because the Fuji works so much better with Fuji lenses.
Same for all my other Digital cams. The adapter idea is fun but you get much better results using OEM lenses.