das
Well-known
The Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM rangefinder lens is not a copy in any way of the V1 Leica Summilux and is a unique design. I'm not sure where this term came from, but it seems to do an injustice to the Canon engineers who designed it. Maybe they are all dead or did not care, but I've never liked the implication that anything good out of Japan in the 1950s or 60s "had" to be a copy of something European. My two cents.
Gregm61
Well-known
Better than "Japanese Jupiter"?
nickthetasmaniac
Mentor
Huh, interesting. I always interpreted ‘Japanese Summilux’ as meaning ‘as good as a Summilux’, rather than ‘copy of a Summilux’.
Ie. I always thought it was a very positive nickname, rather than negative.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
Usually the “Japanese” ethnic reference is positive but in this case it means cheap skate loser who can’t afford a real Summilux. I agree with the OP.
raid
Dad Photographer
I also took it as a compliment. The Canon lens is as good as the amazing Summilux.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
It is very fine lens on its own. But if people don't mind to look stupid, where is nothing we could help them with. They will still call it Lux.
f.hayek
Well-known
Would you have preferred "Japan's Summilux"?
Less troubling to fragile, snowflake sensibilities?
It's long been recognized that the LTM optics out of Japan during those early days were plainly superior to Leica's and Zeiss despite the industry re-starting in the late 1940's from utter and complete devastation. It's a recognition of excellence against all odds, not a knock. But do recall that many of the original optical designs were German but expertly improved upon by Japanese engineers.
peterm1
Mentor
I have never, ever even had the thought that this name somehow was a slight on anyone. In fact I have always felt that it honors Leitz by holding it up as a kind of exemplar of excellent fast 50mm design and it honors the Japanese who made it by saying this is as good or maybe better the Leitz design. (Which incidentally, if you read the reviews of the lens is clearly what those who use this name mean it to be - they never do anything but sing its praises). I guess that to the individual, the world really is as good a place or as bad a place as the individual sees it to be. But I am seriously flabbergasted that anyone should feel offence over this - especially on behalf of others (the Japanese people generally and Canon specifically) who as far as I know has themselves never taken offence at it. I should have thought Canon would be pleased at this laudatory sobriquet as it pointed to the success of their efforts and the recognition being given to that success by the world. And the Japanese people I know to be sensible people who are adverse to the kind of offence taking that in the West has to some become a sport and to others an obsession. In fact if I wished to be more harsh I would say the entire proposition that the name is offensive (which is the clear inference I draw from your post) is patently absurd.
Truth is if you look into the history of lens design almost all lenses were not original designs but rather tweaks of designs developed by companies like Zeiss. And usually given a different name for marketing reasons. In this case the name is seldom taken to refer to Canon's design but rather its fast aperture.
There is no slight in this, if you will pardon the expression - in the slightest.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I have never used the Canon LTMs but am a huge fan of the Nikkors. I still own and use a 85mm the so called Japanese Sonnar. I suppose the Japanese reference is out dated and from an era when people looked down on Japanese products so the OP is correct that the lens designers should get some recognition since the ethic reference wasn’t entirely positive as we know Japanese optics to be now. It’s like calling the LightLensLab lens a Chinese Summicron.
I don’t think the reference was a slight in anyway. The Japanese reference meant it was less expensive and Summilux meant high quality the same way people call the VC 50/1.1 a Japanese Noctilux - a cheap Noctilux. Is it disrespectful to Cosina engineers? I am sure Cosina welcomes the comparison. Per my original response I think it is a self deprecating reference by the users of these lenses.
raid
Dad Photographer
Hm. A Honda could be called a Japanese Volvo.
Well, even worse is “fujicrons.” Why do good, small lenses have to have Leica style nicknames?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'd never heard the term "Japanese Summilux" until the OP mentioned it in this thread.
To me, it's a positive reference, not a disparagement. It's saying the Canon designed lens is on par with the (known good) quality of the Leica Summilux. Similarly for another term I've never heard before: Fujicron. Again, it's saying that these Fujinon lenses compete with the (known good) Leica Summicron for quality.
What's bad about that? I imagine Fuji and Canon engineers celebrate with their work being compared positively to the Leica lenses which are so greatly admired.
G
To me, it's a positive reference, not a disparagement. It's saying the Canon designed lens is on par with the (known good) quality of the Leica Summilux. Similarly for another term I've never heard before: Fujicron. Again, it's saying that these Fujinon lenses compete with the (known good) Leica Summicron for quality.
What's bad about that? I imagine Fuji and Canon engineers celebrate with their work being compared positively to the Leica lenses which are so greatly admired.
G
milescl
Well-known
Agree with OP, here.
das
Well-known
The Canon 50mm 1.4 came out in 1957 while the V1 Summilux is from 1960. So, apart from whether Japanese + [European
or American product name] is "complimentary" or "minimizing," the idea of calling the Canon a Japanese Summilux makes even less sense.
or American product name] is "complimentary" or "minimizing," the idea of calling the Canon a Japanese Summilux makes even less sense.
PRJ
Another Day in Paradise
If Canon had bothered to give a pet name to the lens like Leica does, it is possible we'd call the Summilux the German Picachu.
I have a Japanese Summilux. I got it with a Canon 7 I wanted. I was originally going to sell it but after one roll of film I was dissuaded from trading it for anything. It is my main 50 now. The glass on mine is cherry. Just an excellent lens.
I don't think calling it the Japanese Summilux means anything other than it is a fantastic lens. The best of the bunch, like a Summilux sort of is for German lenses.
I have a Japanese Summilux. I got it with a Canon 7 I wanted. I was originally going to sell it but after one roll of film I was dissuaded from trading it for anything. It is my main 50 now. The glass on mine is cherry. Just an excellent lens.
I don't think calling it the Japanese Summilux means anything other than it is a fantastic lens. The best of the bunch, like a Summilux sort of is for German lenses.
While we're at it, can we end the term "bokeh king" as well?! Heck, why stop there, let's just end the term "bokeh"
Seriously though, like PRJ above, I've never thought of the term "Japanese Summilux" as meaning anything other than the Canon 50/1.4 is a very good lens manufactured in Japan that happens to have the same max. aperture as a Summilux. Its quite interesting that we can read the exact same thing and come away with such differing interpretations.
Seriously though, like PRJ above, I've never thought of the term "Japanese Summilux" as meaning anything other than the Canon 50/1.4 is a very good lens manufactured in Japan that happens to have the same max. aperture as a Summilux. Its quite interesting that we can read the exact same thing and come away with such differing interpretations.
ellisson
Well-known
My interpretation of the term "Japanese Summilux" is that it is an f1.4 lens: Its mainly about maximum aperture, which has been a competitive endeavor among lens manufacturers. Who refers to their Leica Summilux 50mm as "My Leica 50/1.4"? Most Leica owners refer to the lens as the "50 lux" or "50 summilux". Per Leica's choice, the terms summilux, summicron, etc....refer to maximum aperture combined with a Summi- from the Greek "summus" or "summum" for "highest" to connote quality. It is reasonable to compare the Canon 50mm f1.4 lens to the Leica Summilux 50mm f1.4 with the term "Japanese Summilux"
IQ-wise, I'd agree the Canon lens is excellent. Price-wise.....thats another story, but there are those who value the "cachet" of the Leica label, and consider any substitute or comparision unworthy.
Personally, I do not view the term "Japanese Summilux" as pejorative. Rather, it connotes a 50mm f1.4 lens that also happens to produce excellent images.
IQ-wise, I'd agree the Canon lens is excellent. Price-wise.....thats another story, but there are those who value the "cachet" of the Leica label, and consider any substitute or comparision unworthy.
Personally, I do not view the term "Japanese Summilux" as pejorative. Rather, it connotes a 50mm f1.4 lens that also happens to produce excellent images.
css9450
Mentor
I hadn't either, but in all honesty my trigger is "Texas Leica". If I had one of those cameras, I'd probably go into "Karen" mode if someone called it a Texas Leica.
Larry Cloetta
Mentor
It’s not a pejorative, I’d doubt that it ever was. It’s always seemed to me to be a form of praise, which is why I’d likely still use the phrase in the unlikely event I ever had occasion to name the lens in conversation in the future. But anyone who thought it was a pejorative intended to slag an entire country probably shouldn’t use it unless slagging an entire country was their intent. I just can’t see that a significant and meaningful percentage of photographers ever understood it that way. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ll never know.
Armoured
Well-known
Why does that bother you? Somehow pejorative to Texas?
I like the term - conveys pretty much what it is, a classic rangefinder design, but BIG.