bonino
Member
Hi, i received my fed from oleg and noticed that when i try focusing at infinity by looking at a distant light point, i can't bring the rangefinder patch to match, im at infinity and the light is in two points, i see that the points are really close but still separate with the focus at the infinity end of the ring.
Could i have misaligned the rangefinder by mistake? I read that its common for the rangefinder to be inprecise so if its just how it is it doesnt bother me at all, just want to make sure its okay or else i want to calibrate it since it seems very simple.
Could i have misaligned the rangefinder by mistake? I read that its common for the rangefinder to be inprecise so if its just how it is it doesnt bother me at all, just want to make sure its okay or else i want to calibrate it since it seems very simple.
How far is the target?
What lens are you using?
You will often see a very slight mismatch at infinity, and happens with some lenses and not others. The lens needs to be screwed in firmly, even so- there are some mismatches. Test the camera with film. Also use a measuring tape at ~5m to check accuracy with the distance scale.
What lens are you using?
You will often see a very slight mismatch at infinity, and happens with some lenses and not others. The lens needs to be screwed in firmly, even so- there are some mismatches. Test the camera with film. Also use a measuring tape at ~5m to check accuracy with the distance scale.
bonino
Member
Okay thanks, i use industar 26 rigide, i tried screweing my lens more but its really tight enough in my opinion, heard that you shouldnt force too much, its definitely tight.
The target is aproximately 1km away, i read that you tune focusing with a target at at least 300m far, so i thought it was enough, maybe its just that.
I pressed on the rangefinder cam without the lens on but didnt put force, when i got a hair out of the chamber, dont know if that could cause any problème.
Thanks for the advice.
The target is aproximately 1km away, i read that you tune focusing with a target at at least 300m far, so i thought it was enough, maybe its just that.
I pressed on the rangefinder cam without the lens on but didnt put force, when i got a hair out of the chamber, dont know if that could cause any problème.
Thanks for the advice.
Try with film is the best test now. I have Industar and Jupiter lenses that the RF cam does not quite match the distance scale.
On some: I build up the Cam of the lens with a strip of copper tape. You could test by using some plastic tape, just cut it so it fits the Cam.
This was required for my Voigtlander 50/1.1 Nokton to focus properly on my Leica M9. Slight difference between the Voigtlander film cameras and Leica digital cameras.
5 Minute Fix.
On some: I build up the Cam of the lens with a strip of copper tape. You could test by using some plastic tape, just cut it so it fits the Cam.
This was required for my Voigtlander 50/1.1 Nokton to focus properly on my Leica M9. Slight difference between the Voigtlander film cameras and Leica digital cameras.
5 Minute Fix.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
@bonino, @Sonnar Brian has given you a far more OTT option than is likely necessary here. Any rangefinder that has been shipped from point A to point B has likely been knocked about a bit, so I'm more inclined to say that the RF in the FED is out instead of the lens not being to spec.
Infinity RF adjustment on a FED 2 is simple if you have the right screwdrivers. Remove the cover screw that's positioned under the FED engraving on the front (here shown under the F on this photo I shamelessly stole from Mike Eckman):
(Even if you have one of the earlier style of FED 2s, the screw will be in the same place. If you have the later FED-3-in-disguise with the shorter rangefinder base, the screw is on the other side of the lens mount, closer to the main viewfinder window.)
Hidden under that screw is the RF adjustment. You'll need a very small flat headed screwdriver. Set the lens to infinity, point the rangefinder at the moon, and turn the screw GENTLY AND SLOWLY until the RF images line up.
You should also check the close-focus; it's not easily knocked out, but it could be wrong. Set up a "test bed", with an easily-delineated and contrasty object placed vertically and well-lit. Set the FED 2 so that it's 1m from that object to the film plane (not the front of the camera!), and make sure that the film plane is perfectly parallel with the object. If the distance scale on the lens says 1m when the rangefinder images match up, then you're good to go. If not, you have to remove the lens and GENTLY AND SLOWLY rotate the sled-shaped cam follower at the top of the lens mount, then retest the focus.
Note that once the 1m setting is correct, you'll have thrown the infinity out again. And, once you reset the infinity calibration, you'll have to recheck the 1m mark. With each adjustment you get closer to it being in spec; hopefully you won't have to do much, but the first FED 2 I owned was wildly out at both ends and it took hours. Soviet LTM cameras I've bought since either didn't need the 1m adjusting at all or it only needed tweaking slightly.
At any rate, as you don't have any "known good" Soviet rangefinder bodies or lenses at this point, you should do this and test the combination with film before you jump to modifying anything with shims. Once you have a lens/camera combo that you know focuses reliably, use that as a baseline to test anything else you add to the kit.
Infinity RF adjustment on a FED 2 is simple if you have the right screwdrivers. Remove the cover screw that's positioned under the FED engraving on the front (here shown under the F on this photo I shamelessly stole from Mike Eckman):
(Even if you have one of the earlier style of FED 2s, the screw will be in the same place. If you have the later FED-3-in-disguise with the shorter rangefinder base, the screw is on the other side of the lens mount, closer to the main viewfinder window.)
Hidden under that screw is the RF adjustment. You'll need a very small flat headed screwdriver. Set the lens to infinity, point the rangefinder at the moon, and turn the screw GENTLY AND SLOWLY until the RF images line up.
You should also check the close-focus; it's not easily knocked out, but it could be wrong. Set up a "test bed", with an easily-delineated and contrasty object placed vertically and well-lit. Set the FED 2 so that it's 1m from that object to the film plane (not the front of the camera!), and make sure that the film plane is perfectly parallel with the object. If the distance scale on the lens says 1m when the rangefinder images match up, then you're good to go. If not, you have to remove the lens and GENTLY AND SLOWLY rotate the sled-shaped cam follower at the top of the lens mount, then retest the focus.
Note that once the 1m setting is correct, you'll have thrown the infinity out again. And, once you reset the infinity calibration, you'll have to recheck the 1m mark. With each adjustment you get closer to it being in spec; hopefully you won't have to do much, but the first FED 2 I owned was wildly out at both ends and it took hours. Soviet LTM cameras I've bought since either didn't need the 1m adjusting at all or it only needed tweaking slightly.
At any rate, as you don't have any "known good" Soviet rangefinder bodies or lenses at this point, you should do this and test the combination with film before you jump to modifying anything with shims. Once you have a lens/camera combo that you know focuses reliably, use that as a baseline to test anything else you add to the kit.
bonino
Member
Okay i think maybe oleg did calibrate it with the focal plane with a ground glass or piece of paper and im just gonna mess up so im gonna take photos trusting the rangefinder image and take photos of the focus scale each time to compare, i dont really care if its off at infinity by a few mm on the scale as long as its good and correct on film, but not being able to fovus thé RF at all because im fully turned at infinity for long distances such as more than 300m seems a bit weird, maybe im gonna snip the film in the middle in a changing bag to make adjustments and use only one roll for tests. Anyway thanks a lot for the detailed instructions, its gonna be really useful when im calibrating it, since its probably gonna be Off at one point even if its actually ok now, i'll report back what i found 
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
If you are trying to focus on infinity by rangefinder, rather than turning focusing ring all way to the right....
Googling "DOF master" will bring you some joy.
I walked once to Halton Camera Exchange while Bodo was still where.
Asked to check my beater m4-2 on infinity.
Bodo took it to the store window and adjusted it on the light pole across the street.
I asked him once why won't he take FSU for service, He told comparing to Leica, nobody knows what will come at the end of repair of FSU.
Googling "DOF master" will bring you some joy.
I walked once to Halton Camera Exchange while Bodo was still where.
Asked to check my beater m4-2 on infinity.
Bodo took it to the store window and adjusted it on the light pole across the street.
I asked him once why won't he take FSU for service, He told comparing to Leica, nobody knows what will come at the end of repair of FSU.
aw614
Established
Getting that RF alignment on my Zorki 1 was a pain when I did it a few months ago seeing that it was off...only to have it knocked out of alignment yet again on my recent trip this past week. It's really tedious to do the 1m then infinity.
Is there a good tool to adjust the RF cam on the FSU RF? I've been using a small needle nose plier, but I feel like I can't adjust it as precisely
My only guess is its getting knocked out of alignment during my flights in my carryon bag. My LTM canon's didn't have the same issue...
Luckily I was using the CV 21mm F4 so I just scale focused it.
Is there a good tool to adjust the RF cam on the FSU RF? I've been using a small needle nose plier, but I feel like I can't adjust it as precisely
My only guess is its getting knocked out of alignment during my flights in my carryon bag. My LTM canon's didn't have the same issue...
Luckily I was using the CV 21mm F4 so I just scale focused it.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I've always used a pair of pliers wrapped in duct tape. It's awful, and not the right way to do it, but if you're careful enough (both with the duct tape and the pliers!), it works.
As a general rule, in ~15 years of using FEDs and Zorkis, I've only ever knocked the RF cam follower out of place once: when I made the (in hindsight, horrendously dumb) mistake of putting a 135mm Canon lens on a Zorki 5. The small "tongue" cam got locked on the follower, and removing it damaged the lens and pulled the follower far out of alignment.
Usually, as long as you're careful mounting and unmounting lenses, that cam follower is going to stay exactly where you left it. It's not going to get knocked around.
The infinity alignment, on the other hand? Yeah. That can end up getting shunted out of place with a few knocks. That's why it's the first thing I check with any rangefinder I buy, whether FED, Zorki, Leica, Canon, Leotax...
aw614
Established
Going to have to try the duct tape when I check the 1meter adjustment again. But you are correct, it was the infinity alignment that seems to keeps getting knocked out for me.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Something is obviously wrong. Can't say if it is not properly CLAd camera, another FSU lemon or, sorry, misshandeling. But it can't happened while camera is in the bag.
One YT star or else mentioned how he has to send Leicas for RF alligment every half a year or so. Must be a trasher.
The only time I needed FSU RF adjustment was first CLA after getting it in "prefect working conditio" from mega eBay sellers.
As for tools, I never had anything special. Except soft aluminium wrenches to remove round rings on top plates.
aw614
Established
Both times the infinity alignment got knocked out of was after a plane flight from the east coast to west coast of the US, otherwise the time between, they stayed in alignment just fine. Actually back in December I brought the same Zorki to the same trip and it also didnt get knocked out of alignment
bonino
Member
Okay so the camera must be perfectly cla'd since its from oleg and apart from a few complaints by Ko.Fe, everyone seems to be happy with his work, im not saying kofe is wrong at all since i dont know rangefinders but im sure oleg did everything on my camera, i tested the speeds with the slowmotion function of my phone (960fps) and its awfully precise for a 70 years old piece of soviet métal, the winding is even smoother than my perfect condition nikon fg which i consider a pretty good piece of équipement.
I guess it has been knocked out in transport, the only thing i fear is that the close focus is off on its own because i played a bit with the lever, and i screwed the lens at 1m and also at infinity. But could it be that the infinity one is out because of the shocks, and that in turn threw off the close focus? And if i décide to tune Both after putting film through, can i trust the lens markings for distance? Also everyone says to measure from the back, but is there a way to measure from film plane itself? The film is a little bit further from the back since it has the pressure plate and the metal thickness Between back and film, or should i ignore it since its a small distance anyway.
Lastly i read on the manual that even if the RF is Off i should only tune it if it gives me errors on film, and that its normal to have differences between lens scale and real distances, do xou guys think my différences are too much for normal misalignement ? I have the lens 2-3mm from 1m when focusing and measurimg
I guess it has been knocked out in transport, the only thing i fear is that the close focus is off on its own because i played a bit with the lever, and i screwed the lens at 1m and also at infinity. But could it be that the infinity one is out because of the shocks, and that in turn threw off the close focus? And if i décide to tune Both after putting film through, can i trust the lens markings for distance? Also everyone says to measure from the back, but is there a way to measure from film plane itself? The film is a little bit further from the back since it has the pressure plate and the metal thickness Between back and film, or should i ignore it since its a small distance anyway.
Lastly i read on the manual that even if the RF is Off i should only tune it if it gives me errors on film, and that its normal to have differences between lens scale and real distances, do xou guys think my différences are too much for normal misalignement ? I have the lens 2-3mm from 1m when focusing and measurimg
The only way you will know for certain is to try on film.
I've taped a negative strip onto the back of a camera, with wax paper to form an image- use a 15x loupe with glass to hold down, and can still get an error. I did that to get close, shoot with film, then make a final adjustment. With an F2.8 lens- you would have to be way off to see an error on film. With a Jupiter-3 at F1.5, need to be closer.
I've taped a negative strip onto the back of a camera, with wax paper to form an image- use a 15x loupe with glass to hold down, and can still get an error. I did that to get close, shoot with film, then make a final adjustment. With an F2.8 lens- you would have to be way off to see an error on film. With a Jupiter-3 at F1.5, need to be closer.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
If infinity is out, close focus will be out too - and vice-versa.
Normally you don't have to touch close focus once it's been set properly on a rangefinder unless you've taken the thing apart completely and/or swapped out some parts - close focus is usually pretty hardy. Infinity can and will drift over the years, which is why that should always be your first port of call when checking these things. Invest in a couple of good screwdrivers to take care of it - it's simple to check and adjust yourself, and it'll save you a fortune in service fees and wasted film.
This depends a lot on the lens, and as you don't "know" the lens yet, there's no way to be certain.
I have a Jupiter 3 where the focus ring is just slightly misaligned - it's maybe 1.5mm over the infinity mark when it hits the stop (and is actually focused on infinity, both in the RF and on the film). As such, I have to bear that mind when scale focusing - and I never use that particular lens for RF calibration, either.
With practice you can guesstimate it. The best way is to remove the back of the camera and measure from the back of the shutter crate. That's close enough to dial in the 1m focus for most camera/lens combinations.
First: check the infinity focus, not the 1m setting. Not only is infinity more likely to be the problem (as mentioned earlier), it's much easier to dial in accurately. That'll probably bring the RF into spec across the whole range.
I suspect that the manual was written that way to cover the fact that sometimes lens/camera combinations just don't gel together properly, and there will be some variations. This happens to some degree on all rangefinders, not just the Soviet ones; for instance, my Leica IIIg is perfectly calibrated for all my lenses, but when I put a 135mm Hektor on there, the vertical alignment is suddenly out. That lens doesn't do that to any other rangefinder in the house, and no other lens does that to my IIIg. I have no idea why. It's weird.
bonino
Member
Okay thanks, then im gonna ask oleg if he did calibrate it ignoring the lens markings, if not im gonna try setting infinity first and developp test bits, im just worried im gonna mess olegs tuning by setting the infinity rf so that i can focus the rf at infinity, im thinking maybe oleg knew this lens would not focus at infinity based on the rf but that its correctly focused anyway on film, wouldnt want to mess that up.
And would you say its useful anyway with a 2.8 lens?
And would you say its useful anyway with a 2.8 lens?
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Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I'd say it's useful with any lens.
The Jupiter 12 is a 35/2.8 - the depth of field on a lens like that is relatively large. Even so, I can still see the backfocus caused by using it on a Leica. I pick up on stuff like that all the time. Drives me nuts; your milage may vary.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Wait, are you tossing cameras into checked luggage?
I never done this.
I have traveled across USA and Canada for years with rangefinders, but always as carry on.
aw614
Established
No its on my carryon luggage in the overhead bin
I've shimmed several J-12's for Leica, same shim as the Jupiter-8. I've also shimmed the Kiev/Contax J-12's for Nikon S-Mount. The collar of the lens typically needs to be polished down slightly, as to not mar the Nikon nameplate.