Jeffry7
Member
I have this idea for a photo that involves a man sitting at a table in a restaurant. There would be some digital double exposure work to get the photo I want, but up front, I need the pic of the person in the restaurant before I can do the fancy stuff.
But this obviously presents several issues. The other people there might not appreciate me taking this photo. And of course there is the restaurant owner's point of view.
Are there studios I could rent and set up? (And how much would that cost?)
Another option I have been thinking about is to use miniatures such as these:
www.etsy.com
Have you folks tackled a shot that involves staging in a public place? How did you manage it?
Thanks!
But this obviously presents several issues. The other people there might not appreciate me taking this photo. And of course there is the restaurant owner's point of view.
Are there studios I could rent and set up? (And how much would that cost?)
Another option I have been thinking about is to use miniatures such as these:
Miniature DIY Dollhouse Kit Wooden European Cafe - Etsy
This Miniatures item by TheCoolBeansBoutique has 361 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Plano, TX. Listed on Jan 18, 2023
www.etsy.com
Have you folks tackled a shot that involves staging in a public place? How did you manage it?
Thanks!
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
Have you thought about using an AI image generator like Stable Diffusion? Sounds like with your parameters, it might be fun to try; unless you have a specific model in mind.
Jeffry7
Member
I hadn't.
I would want a shot with the man in the seat and one without. Are these AI doohickeys sophisticated enough to give me two shots that vary by only one detail?
x-ray
Mentor
I did a lot of location shoots for quite a few clients. I did one shoot for the launch of a new Gerber baby formula and had to shoot in a grocery store. I had to find a store that closed at night and bring in models, makeup artist, crew, 2 art directors, clients and lighting and shot through the night. We had to restock the shelves with our product in one area and groom every can and package visible to the camera. The store owner was paid well for the help and we restored his store to the way it was originally. When we finished you couldn’t tell we had been there.
I did a number of other shoots for retail fashion catalogs. We in shot room sets in furniture stores because of pre made sets, accessories and furniture that we could use. Again we brought in crew, lighting, models and art director.
I also used peoples homes on occasion. We paid them for the use of course and had some very successful shoots.
I did a personal shoot in a restaurant in Chattanooga a few years back. I wanted to photograph staff and the old time atmosphere and was allowed in an hour before opening and also allowed to shoot while customers were there if I announced to the customers what I was doing and gave them an option to sit outside the area I was shooting.
The commercial shoots worked quite well and cost only a fraction of creating a set in my studio which I have done many times. My personal shoot went off without a glitch and I provided prints to the owner and staff to use in ads or whatever they wanted.
Actually I’ve shot personal work in several restaurants and asked the owner and patrons if they’re ok with it and never had a problem.
You might find a rental studio but have no idea where you live and cost would be up to the studio owner. I had a 6000sq ft studio and rented a 24,000 sq ft studio as needed but construction is expensive and time consuming. An example, one HGTV shoot in the early 2000’s had to be done in a bigger studio than I had. With construction of the set and my services the shoot ran over $40,000 in 2000’s dollars. Today it would be $90,000.
See if a restaurant would allow you to come in before they open and do your shoot.
The first shot for HGTV was just a tiny segment of the actual setup. Everything was hauled into the studio including a flatbed truck with 4” high germinated wheat to use as grass, a few dump trucks of dirt, shrubs, fence and other backyard items including landscape rocks. It was a massive production!
The good shots and bar were shot while the restaurants were open and had customers. We scheduled the shoots though when business was slowest.
I did a number of other shoots for retail fashion catalogs. We in shot room sets in furniture stores because of pre made sets, accessories and furniture that we could use. Again we brought in crew, lighting, models and art director.
I also used peoples homes on occasion. We paid them for the use of course and had some very successful shoots.
I did a personal shoot in a restaurant in Chattanooga a few years back. I wanted to photograph staff and the old time atmosphere and was allowed in an hour before opening and also allowed to shoot while customers were there if I announced to the customers what I was doing and gave them an option to sit outside the area I was shooting.
The commercial shoots worked quite well and cost only a fraction of creating a set in my studio which I have done many times. My personal shoot went off without a glitch and I provided prints to the owner and staff to use in ads or whatever they wanted.
Actually I’ve shot personal work in several restaurants and asked the owner and patrons if they’re ok with it and never had a problem.
You might find a rental studio but have no idea where you live and cost would be up to the studio owner. I had a 6000sq ft studio and rented a 24,000 sq ft studio as needed but construction is expensive and time consuming. An example, one HGTV shoot in the early 2000’s had to be done in a bigger studio than I had. With construction of the set and my services the shoot ran over $40,000 in 2000’s dollars. Today it would be $90,000.
See if a restaurant would allow you to come in before they open and do your shoot.
The first shot for HGTV was just a tiny segment of the actual setup. Everything was hauled into the studio including a flatbed truck with 4” high germinated wheat to use as grass, a few dump trucks of dirt, shrubs, fence and other backyard items including landscape rocks. It was a massive production!
The good shots and bar were shot while the restaurants were open and had customers. We scheduled the shoots though when business was slowest.
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Jeffry7
Member
About half the images I got are on the wrong side of the uncanny valley.
a wide angle picture of a man drinking in a crowded restaurant
I think it requires some skill to set up, and I suspect the really good images floating around as examples have been heavily post processed to clean up problems.
x-ray
Mentor
One thing to keep in mind, if you’re shooting in a restaurant or any location for that matter you’re liable for any injury or damage whether your fault or someone else’s. If you have lights and tripod setup and someone walks by and trips and claims injury your butt will be hung out to dry. Serious! It doesn’t matter if you’re a pro or amateur, you’re responsible. For that reason I always carried a good liability policy just incase.
Jeffry7
Member
Good tip. Something I wasn't even thinking of.
doc68
Member
I am not sure if this is going to exceed the limits of this thread, but can you please briefly elaborate on "good liability policy" (particularly for hobbyists/amateurs, because for a professional shoot, it just is part of the price of the production).
What are key points I would want to make sure are covered? Do you have a policy for just a planned shoot (or all year long on all your photographic ventures)? What kind of pricetag are we talking about?
And to come back to the shoot in a restaurant - maybe setting up in a studio / rental space is not so far off any more, if you consider it is a way more controlled situation.
I apologize for rolling in with a bunch of questions that may or may not belong here.
Oh, and my questions refer to the US - I am aware that can be totally different in other parts of the world.
(I lived in Germany for 40plus years and I was better informed there...)
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
You’re right about that one! (*)
Do you have a location permit and model releases? For my own protection I made sure I had them - though I was making a 1+ hour video.
@doc68 - we ain’t got no steenkin’ thread limits!
(*) Uncanny valley - Wikipedia
x-ray
Mentor
The best thing would be to talk to an insurance agent. Rates and plans most likely vary in different parts of the country.
I don’t remember what I was paying when I was really active but in the last few years I was semi retired and had a better rate because I was semi retired.
I don’t remember the specifics but you want coverage if a light falls and hits someone in the head and injures the and want coverage incase you plug in a light and it shorts out and burns the building down. You have to cover injuries if your assistant gets injured and can’t work for a while.
Basically you need to have coverage for all situations where you’re liable for any thing that could happen.
My assistant and I were moving a large heavy sheet of plate glass in my studio. I guess it weighed over 150 pounds and we carefully picked it up vertically supporting it from each side. There shouldn’t have been any stress on it but it exploded into thousands of pieces. My main studio was 50x60 feet and glass went into every corner. My assistant was wearing shorts and somehow got a pretty good size chunk of glass in the back of his leg.
I rushed him to the emergency room where they removed the glass and stitched him up. Tom understood it was just one of those freak things and no negligence was involved. My insurance took care of all the bills and life went on. If he had lost an eye or leg my insurance would have paid off up to the limit. I don’t remember the limit but it was in the millions.
Liability insurance only covers costs and should something really go wrong like the Alec Baldwin’s situation where he accidentally shot and killed the cinematographer on the set of his movie, you’re still subject to civil lawsuits and criminal prosecution.
When I was semi retired I carried a trimmed down policy because I knew my exposure to risk was minimal because of the clients and kind of jobs. They would do a six month or a year and I paid $101 per year which is pretty cheap. I had multi million dollar coverage that covered pretty much any situation I’d be in.
I used to do the SmithKline Beecham veterinary product photography which involved products and shooting prize animals on location.
One shoot I was working with a best of breed young steer. It got spooked and took off and tried to jump an electric fence but got its hooves caught in the live wires and wound up hanging upside down in it. I thought we were going to have a $500,000 BBQ that day but fortunately someone saw it and shut the fence off. The fence had to be cut to get the animal out but fortunately it was ok.
I’ve had a few other close ones but fortunately nothing really serious and only one case where the insurance had to pay.
I did a couple of large shoots in national parks in Tennessee and Utah. The department of interior requires a pretty hefty policy just incase the generator you’re using for lights starts a forest fire. Imagine that.
Contact a couple of agents and explain what you’re doing and get them to quote policies with different coverage. You’re more likely to get a good rate with the company that has your car and home insurance if they’re a local agent. They may even tack a rider on your homes liability policy since you’re not a pro.
You want to take precautions on shoots where you have tripods, lights and cables around. Many studio lights come with either safety chains or cords to prevent a light from falling should something happen. Use gaffer tape to tape electrical cords to the floor where no one can trip on them. There are rubber guards that cover electrical cords that are a good idea too but taping them down is ok. Also if you’re using equipment around children have someone watching to make sure they don’t pull something over or stuck their finger in a strobe head. I had a little girl poke her finger in a live strobe head and I caught her before she was injured.
Best of luck. Hope this helps.
x-ray
Mentor
Model release and pay them a dollar. Good advice!You’re right about that one! (*)
Do you have a location permit and model releases? For my own protection I made sure I had them - though I was making a 1+ hour video.
@doc68 - we ain’t got no steenkin’ thread limits!
(*) Uncanny valley - Wikipedia
D
Deleted member 82967
Guest
An editor that has layers and masks might get you there with a bit of work though, Jeffry.
Pat David has a bar scene which permits downloading to play with - it has a guy gesticulating in the foreground. Interested?
Vince Lupo
Barely Known
This situation is sounding more and more complex, maybe way more than it needs to be.
First, what's the ultimate purpose of this photo? If it's just for your own personal use (i.e. not for any advertising purposes) then you don't need model releases. Second, do you know someone who owns a restaurant/works at a restaurant, or do you know someone who knows someone who owns a restaurant/works at a restaurant? If so, use those connections. Does it need to be done in a crowded restaurant or can this be done without anyone else in it? If you just need a person sitting at a table in a restaurant with no one else in it, can it be done before the place opens or in between lunch/dinner? Do you think this can be done with just using the available light so that you don't have to do any kind of auxiliary setup (I'd be pretty sure you could)? Heck, can you even just try doing this photo initially with your phone to see if your idea is going to work?
First, what's the ultimate purpose of this photo? If it's just for your own personal use (i.e. not for any advertising purposes) then you don't need model releases. Second, do you know someone who owns a restaurant/works at a restaurant, or do you know someone who knows someone who owns a restaurant/works at a restaurant? If so, use those connections. Does it need to be done in a crowded restaurant or can this be done without anyone else in it? If you just need a person sitting at a table in a restaurant with no one else in it, can it be done before the place opens or in between lunch/dinner? Do you think this can be done with just using the available light so that you don't have to do any kind of auxiliary setup (I'd be pretty sure you could)? Heck, can you even just try doing this photo initially with your phone to see if your idea is going to work?