David Murphy
Mentor
My experience has been that the Japanese copies of the Leica design are by-in-large very well made and a pleasure to use. Of the Japanese Barnacks, I think the Canon's were probably the best of the bunch, with Nicca a close second (these are a good deal less common though). I do think the authentic Leica bottom loaders were, by and large, noticeably better made and have survived the test of time well. Their prices tend to reflect this.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I have Leotax, Nicca and Canon from fifties. Comparing to Leica IIIc I also have, only Nicca is on pair with Leica. It doesn't have totally unnecessary add-ons and "improvements" as other made in Japan have.
David Murphy
Mentor
Regarding the "add-ons", I do like the 100 and 135mm finder settings on the Canon bottom loaders. Of course their quality is marginal by modern standards, but I actually find them useful and have used the 135mm focal length on a Canon quite a bit with good results. The common wisdom is that 135mm is too long a focal length for a rangefinder, but I disagree.
The X-sync flash ability with a standard PC flash connector as seen, for instance, on some of the Leotax bottom loaders is also handy for practical use. I find this much more straightforward to use than the weird flash sync control dial on the Leica IIIf for example. I'm not really keeping track, but I think the Japanese cameras by-in-large also did a better job of integrating the viewfinder and rangefinder functionality of this basic design.
Of course added capability can impede long term reliability, or require more frequent servicing - Leica's simplicity does have it's advantages!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
David Murphy
Mentor
Try them, you might learn something.100 and 135? Sorry, just LOL. And flash is next to it.
PAN F
Established
I have used many Barnack's and many Japanese LTM cameras over the years but still come back to using my Pre-war upgraded Leica 111a which was the last Leica model that Barnack designed before his death.
Compared with my Nicca, Minolta, and Leotax- the Canon and Leica shutter material seems to be more durable. Based on 2 Nicca III, 1 Leotax D-IV, and 2 Minolta 35 bodies compared with 4 Canon bottom loaders and 4 pre-war Leica bodies, 3 post-war IIIC bodies. The diopter adjustment on the Nicca and Leica is a nice feature. The Leotax does not have this adjustment. The Canon magnification and combined VF/RF is faster to use. I use a Canon III to adjust lenses.
Did not know the IIIa was the last Barnack camera actually designed by him- interesting.
Did not know the IIIa was the last Barnack camera actually designed by him- interesting.
hilltime
Well-known
Nicca 33
Nicca 33
Just received this excellent example of a Nicca 33 from Japan w/ original box. It looks like new and the shutter speeds sound right on with a distinct snap of the curtains I haven't heard in many vintage focal plane shutter cameras recently. The Chiyoko (Minolta) Rokkor 3.5cm/F3.5 is mine from my collection and fits nicely on this compact body, for a pocket size camera.
Can't wait to give it a try!
Nicca 33
Just received this excellent example of a Nicca 33 from Japan w/ original box. It looks like new and the shutter speeds sound right on with a distinct snap of the curtains I haven't heard in many vintage focal plane shutter cameras recently. The Chiyoko (Minolta) Rokkor 3.5cm/F3.5 is mine from my collection and fits nicely on this compact body, for a pocket size camera.
Can't wait to give it a try!
Attachments
David Murphy
Mentor
Gary, what a beauty! And that looks like the orignal box too - congrats.
David Murphy
Mentor
Yes the Leotax's, at least the early ones, were pretty basic Leica copies and probably not as reliable as the Canon's were, at least as found today. They are still a lot of fun to use and can all be serviced nicely. Most Minolta 35's as found today have shutter issues if they've not had a servicing since new.
I believe the Leotax was considered an economical alternative to Leica in its day, so some frills were probably intentionally left off and a few corners cut in their manufacrture. I doubt their creators expected folks like us to pressing them into service in the year 2021! I must say I the Leotax D-IV is certainly deserving of the fairly high price that working examples command today. I own a good one and it's solid as a rock - I love it.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
100 and 135 are just useless focal lengths to me. I'm not into head and dusty shoulders, but getting close by been close with wide lens.
john341
camera user
Leotax
Leotax
I had heard that there is//was a model of more robust construction then the others. I am using a Model K -no slow speeds but less to go wrong. Great to use, but shutter noise can be intrusive. Any comments anyone?
Leotax
I had heard that there is//was a model of more robust construction then the others. I am using a Model K -no slow speeds but less to go wrong. Great to use, but shutter noise can be intrusive. Any comments anyone?
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I bought a Leotax T2L earlier in the year - like Gary's Nicca above, it came in the original box and in great shape - and I'm really enjoying it. Film transport is smooth, the lever wind is a nice addition, the viewfinder could really do with a clean but is closer to a IIIg than a regular Barnack, and overall build quality seems high. I ran it through all the shutter speeds and got tolerable exposures throughout, which is surprising for something that's apparently been sat in a box for a long, long time.
My only issue with it is that the shutter button seems to have a bit more resistance to it than a IIIf or IIIg. I can still hand-hold it at 1/30th without too much problem, but I'd be a little wary of venturing into the slow speeds without a tripod. Maybe a service would smooth that out, but I'm loathe to send it to someone when that's the only problem.
Another thing I noticed in my search for a Leotax is that, like the IIIc, a lot of them seem to be showing some degree of corrosion in the chrome now. Mine has one or two tiny spots. I don't seem to see that as much in Canons or Niccas - but maybe I just haven't looked as hard.
My only issue with it is that the shutter button seems to have a bit more resistance to it than a IIIf or IIIg. I can still hand-hold it at 1/30th without too much problem, but I'd be a little wary of venturing into the slow speeds without a tripod. Maybe a service would smooth that out, but I'm loathe to send it to someone when that's the only problem.
Another thing I noticed in my search for a Leotax is that, like the IIIc, a lot of them seem to be showing some degree of corrosion in the chrome now. Mine has one or two tiny spots. I don't seem to see that as much in Canons or Niccas - but maybe I just haven't looked as hard.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I currently have film in a Leotax F and have shot with a Nicca 3-f before.
The winding operation on both of these feels buttery smooth and the release is pretty quiet similar to my IIIg.
But the Leotax lies considerably heavier in my hands than my Leica IIIc/f/g cameras.
The winding operation on both of these feels buttery smooth and the release is pretty quiet similar to my IIIg.
But the Leotax lies considerably heavier in my hands than my Leica IIIc/f/g cameras.
Dralowid
Michael
An early pre war Fed can be every bit as good if not better than a Leica II. Machining, finish and operation all to a very high standard.
It will also be more expensive...
It will also be more expensive...
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I have a Leotax K and T2L. Both are recent purchases. I got the T2L from a fellow RFF member. It was stripped to brass and repainted black; an incredible camera. Shutter noise on the T2L is on par with my Leica M4.
The K I found as a rear lens cap to a Hexar 50mm f/3.5. Both the body and lens were listed as ugly. Body was missing most of its leatherette and the lens wouldn't focus properly. Both cleaned up amazingly. The rear optical group of the lens was simply not screwed in all the way. I cleaned up a bit of haze and that lens is awesome.
The body got dismantled, cleaned, curtains checked then reassembled. I was looking around the house for a covering and remembered that I had a good amount of Mercedes MB Tex upholstery material from my car's old seats. Now the K is covered in very dark brown MB Tex and is a great camera. Shutter noise is about the same as the T2L, neither are unpleasant nor loud. The chrome plating on the K looks near mint.
I've owned three Barnack Leicas in the past, a IIIC and two IIIFs. Every one of those needed new shutter curtains and two needed new RF beamsplitters. These Leotax were both less expensive and have needed no repair to make fully operational and reliable.
Phil Forrest
The K I found as a rear lens cap to a Hexar 50mm f/3.5. Both the body and lens were listed as ugly. Body was missing most of its leatherette and the lens wouldn't focus properly. Both cleaned up amazingly. The rear optical group of the lens was simply not screwed in all the way. I cleaned up a bit of haze and that lens is awesome.
The body got dismantled, cleaned, curtains checked then reassembled. I was looking around the house for a covering and remembered that I had a good amount of Mercedes MB Tex upholstery material from my car's old seats. Now the K is covered in very dark brown MB Tex and is a great camera. Shutter noise is about the same as the T2L, neither are unpleasant nor loud. The chrome plating on the K looks near mint.
I've owned three Barnack Leicas in the past, a IIIC and two IIIFs. Every one of those needed new shutter curtains and two needed new RF beamsplitters. These Leotax were both less expensive and have needed no repair to make fully operational and reliable.
Phil Forrest
tennis-joe
Well-known
copies
copies
I have Niccas, Canon and Tower cameras. The Nikkor lens are great also. But the Canons with their metal shutters that wrinkle I don't like. I happened to get a Canon that had a cloth shutter replacement and I'm glad I got that one. I wish I had more time to shoot more with them. Unfortunately there are fewer places to get film developed is my problem.
copies
I have Niccas, Canon and Tower cameras. The Nikkor lens are great also. But the Canons with their metal shutters that wrinkle I don't like. I happened to get a Canon that had a cloth shutter replacement and I'm glad I got that one. I wish I had more time to shoot more with them. Unfortunately there are fewer places to get film developed is my problem.
hilltime
Well-known
I will have to admit, I have a IIIg, purchased many years ago from a lady who bought it new in 1958 for her world travels. Along with the standard 5cm/F2 collapsible Summicron came an earlier Hektor 2.8cm/F6.3 and 9cm/F4 Elmar and other various accessories. Not loving the 28mm focal length, I sold that lens and the Elmar for more than I paid for the whole kit.
After a CLA on the body, I stlll came out ahead, after selling a few original filters, etc.
Long story short, I haven't taken the IIIg out for a spin in years, while falling for many Leotax bodies and lenses. I would rate my FV as an equal to most any Barnack style camera, and I agree with David, I also have an early DIV, which came with the rare Olympus 4cm/F2.8, as one of my fave early 50's cameras.
I've been lucky enough to find most of the original Topcor lenses made for the Leotax system after many years of searching and some $$$ spent, but this has become one of my favorite portions of my 27 yrs of collecting vintage cameras.
Note to SELF: Use Leica IIIg!
After a CLA on the body, I stlll came out ahead, after selling a few original filters, etc.
Long story short, I haven't taken the IIIg out for a spin in years, while falling for many Leotax bodies and lenses. I would rate my FV as an equal to most any Barnack style camera, and I agree with David, I also have an early DIV, which came with the rare Olympus 4cm/F2.8, as one of my fave early 50's cameras.
I've been lucky enough to find most of the original Topcor lenses made for the Leotax system after many years of searching and some $$$ spent, but this has become one of my favorite portions of my 27 yrs of collecting vintage cameras.
Note to SELF: Use Leica IIIg!
This has been my experience, also. Its 2 inch Taylor-Hobson Anastigmat was similarly impressive and beautifully finished.
Original Agfa APX100 in ID-11
1/1000 @ f/2. No significant tapering or bounce. Good stuff.
1/500 @ f/5.6.
1/60 or 1/100 @ f/2 from memory.
I have 2 x IIIf & a IIIc now. The Reid III remains my favourite, sadly no longer here but I enjoyed making it perfect for its new owner and running a couple of rolls through it.
raid
Dad Photographer
I like them all. I have a Leica IIIF; a Nicca copy; a Canon. Each of these three cameras looks cool to me, and they function well.