dct
perpetual amateur
I am sure the elder M mount users know exactly the difference between FF digital (or 135 film) and APS-C. And these users are exactly those with a legacy M lenses park. I too would have to acquire some new lenses if I would go the APS-C way with M mount.
For the newcomers from smartphone I see no problems starting and keeping an APS-C centric M system approach. With Pixii or M mount adapters for the many APS-C brands, or new upcoming solutions. I have to admit that the APS-C solutions are more compact, with less weight and give enough image quality with today's technology. In a nutshell: more solution per $.
Whitten
Established
The smartphone user has always been mentioned in Leica Q2 debates. I'd be amazed if people with only smartphone experience transition from a phone to a Q2 or Pixii?
ranger9
Well-known
Why do they (we) need to know about "crop factors"? The focal length -- a simple physical measurement that has nothing to do with cameras -- is printed on the lens somewhere. You set this value on the Pixii's menu, and the viewfinder displays a frame line that indicates what will be in the picture (at least for 28mm, 35mm, 40mm or 50mm lenses.) Job done. There's no utility at all in knowing what focal length would produce the same field of view on an 11x14 Deardorff, a Tessina, a K28 aerial camera, or whatever.
Fun fact for the relative handful of people on this thread who actually are interested in using a Pixii: the latest camera software lets you set focal-length values ranging from 12mm to 135mm. Of course there still aren't frame lines for anything other that 28, 35, 40, or 50, so I assume the idea of including the others is just to get them into the EXIF data for the photo in case you want to take pictures with some other lens using the new live-view feature... which I've done, and it works, although it's a bit awkward aiming the camera with one hand while holding your phone in the other...
boojum
Mentor
There are thingmaes that slip into the cold shoe that will hold a cell phone. Yeah, check it out. I would opt for one of these: Amazon.com : cell phone holder with hot shoe or over at B&H cell phone holder with hot shoe | B&H Photo Video
Whitten
Established
So they know what lens to use to get the image they are after. This for some will mean buying a specific lens.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
So, smartphone users are not as smart as old stock?
It is old stock which mostly grown with narrow fifty.
Smartphone users are 28 fov.
So, they will buy premium 28 mm lens, only to find it is x1.5 narrow on body which cost more than cameras with true 28mm support.
APS-C is nothing, but FF substitute, cameras with this sensor are always cheaper and so are dedicated lenses for it
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Anyone who buys a camera and then just buys a name-your-favorite-focal-length lens without taking into consideration what the format of the camera is and what that focal length will mean in the context of that format is just being foolish.
No one I know who bought or used a FourThirds or APS-C camera ever just slapped a 28mm lens on it thinking that it gave the same field of view as it did on the old Nikon F. Buying an expensive camera and lens is a conscious choice; most people tend to think it through with some deliberation before dishing out the money.
This is quite different from having a couple of M-mount lenses and fitting them to a new APS-C camera ... That's an exercise of: "Let's see what this lens does on my new camera, since I already have this lens." And of course if you have an M6 and three lenses, and you consider buying a Pixii, the first thing you research before buying the camera is 'how will my lenses work on the new camera?' That's just sensible, common sense thinking.
G
No one I know who bought or used a FourThirds or APS-C camera ever just slapped a 28mm lens on it thinking that it gave the same field of view as it did on the old Nikon F. Buying an expensive camera and lens is a conscious choice; most people tend to think it through with some deliberation before dishing out the money.
This is quite different from having a couple of M-mount lenses and fitting them to a new APS-C camera ... That's an exercise of: "Let's see what this lens does on my new camera, since I already have this lens." And of course if you have an M6 and three lenses, and you consider buying a Pixii, the first thing you research before buying the camera is 'how will my lenses work on the new camera?' That's just sensible, common sense thinking.
G
Of course it is that simple to set up, but will it be the focal length you want. You are acting as if people just ignore focal lengths and just put any old lens on a camera and go photograph. I think that only happens when you are young and you find an old camera in your parents closet. Nobody who buys a $3000 camera and $1000 lens boutique M mount camera from France is going to do so blindly without knowing something about what they are doing. You do not NEED to know about crop factors, but it makes sense to know them.
boojum
Mentor
All of what you say is true. The differences of opinion arise from how we weight different aspects of cameras and lenses and their qualities. I try for image as the primary objective. I will always be limited by content just because I am not that good at taking pictures. But that aside, I want to get the best and most natural color I can with maybe a little secret pop or some other magic. And while the two lovely KMZ Jupiter 8's do color and detail so well, the little Cooke Amotal has some secret magic. At the larger f-stops as in f/2.0 and f/2.8 there is that magic glow of the "Cooke Look." As the lens opening diminishes in size the glow recedes and the color becomes a bit stronger. I am not at all objective on this but I think that the lens pushes natural pretty far, right about as far as you can go without becoming too much, borderline gaudy. But remember that I got a bug up my ass about this lens and shopped for months before I found the one I now have. So take what I say about it with a grain of salt, maybe a pretty large grain of salt.
I like how the J8's and the Amotal work on the Pixii because Barth and his crew have tuned that Sony sensor to the teeth. I really like Leica M9 color and the Pixii has solid color but a little more natural and less bright than the M9. I have tested none of this. This is just what I come away with from playing with these cameras. In the simple terms that my 6 year-old mind needs I say the M9 is more acrylic and the Pixii more water color, the M9 more Kodachrome and the Pixii more Agfachrome. Each has its strengths.
Aspect ratio is not way up on my list. I just try to frame what I want in the photo and push the shutter button. I choose the lens for the effect rather than the aspect ratio. I have an old Canon 28mm f/2.8 which works very well on everything, M8.2, M9, M240 and Pixii. It has great detail and luscious color, not an in-your-face color but a nice solid color.
I am pretty dependent upon lens and camera for end result. I dislike post editing. I edited audio for years and the trick in audio is to not hear the "enhancements" even though they are there. The sound must be natural. I am talking classical, jazz and some good old bar R&B. And I feel the same about visual editing. Sometimes I see a photo with the light coming from various places and of different temperatures. While the initial impression might be "Wow!" it does not take long before my mind starts with, "Hey, what's wrong with this picture?" Simply put I want to stay as close to the original image that I saw as I can. That means, to me, leave it alone. SOOC That makes me more dependent on the camera - lens combo. I try to do the magic at capture time and not after. In this as always YMMV.
If you have read this far you will probably buy a winning lottery ticket the next time you are in the convenience store. Have fun with the winnings.
LCT
ex-newbie
Cropping has advantages like... cropping when using FF lenses on crop cameras. Cropping vignetting, cropping color shifts and cropping other issues at edges and corners. Funny to discuss those old things 18 years after the release of the R-D1.
bob_summers
Member
Pixii has just arrived here - I am notoriously bad at "learning" a new camera so I'll leave any judgements until I've shot it for a couple of weeks!
But so far, so good!
But so far, so good!
ranger9
Well-known
It's a beautiful day, so I think I'll put the optician-equivalent +20 diopter lens on my Pixii and go out and photograph the trees. It'll be a long trip, but fortunately my Honda gets a horse-equivalent 140 furlongs per peck of feed. You want equivalents? I got equivalents! (These are all legit numbers, btw...)
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It's a beautiful (if still kinda chilly for April) day here too. I'm still working through rendering photos I made on my recent trip to NY (I used my Light L16 for that trip), and I have the Polaroid SLR670a by MiNT loaded with a fresh pack of 600 Color film ... So I'll carry that and snap a photo or two depending on what I might see while I'm riding my bicycle. 
G
G
boojum
Mentor
The fair Iona. "up on the hard" for some work before going for a long sail. The new owner wants to do a circumnavigation. Getting across the Columbia Bar will be his first big challenge. Columbia Bar - Wikipedia
Canon 28mm f/2.8 LTM, Pixii A2572, JPG SOOC
Canon 28mm f/2.8 LTM, Pixii A2572, JPG SOOC
bob_summers
Member
There is a Pixii review up on Macfilos in case you hadn't seen it. I had to chuckle at the line about battery life - basically it's terrible but it's a "feature" because swapping batteries is just like changing a roll of film! I must say, while it burns through batteries at a fair rate, it's not quite every 36exp!
I've been somewhat impressed by the IQ I'm getting, just haven't had proper daylight hours shooting time yet. Everything I want in a camera and almost nothing I don't.
I've been somewhat impressed by the IQ I'm getting, just haven't had proper daylight hours shooting time yet. Everything I want in a camera and almost nothing I don't.
boojum
Mentor
It is a very good camera. It is not a perfect camera. There are no perfect cameras.
Swapping batteries is not a problem for me. They are about $20 a pop at B&H and a charger about $30, often there is a package deal for both.
I am pleased with the IQ. It is not quite a vintage look but it is close while still keeping a softness. I think of it as between Kodachrome and Agfachrome, a good balance. It has been quirky at times. And I had it set wrong during its last months as an A1571. It is quite competent now. With good lenses it really shines and works well at high ISO's. For some reason it is assailed. I am not sure why.
agentlossing
Well-known
The colors and atmosphere here are bang-on perfect. Love it. Really nice color depth.
boojum
Mentor
David Barth has tuned this 26MP Sony sensor really well.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Nice photos!
G
G
bob_summers
Member
Trying to find time to use my Pixii, took a few B/W DNG frames on the walk home from work yesterday. I don't have a hosting site so they're just on my Twitter for now. They're just cropped/rotated in Darktable. I used a CV 28 f/2, and as the light was so flat and meh, just kept it on 400iso, 1/500.
There have been very few things that bug me about the Pixii, and the things that do are likely my fault.
The main one I guess is that Aperture priority hasn't been super reliable. If you're trying to shoot quickly, it doesn't have time to meter the scene and you get like one in ten shots on the computer with a shutter speed of something like 1/16129 which you can sometimes rescue, sometimes not. I try to shoot full manual to avoid that (M2 user, so no great inconvenience). It seems to happen only when you're in a hurry - maybe Pixii isn't "that" camera!
There have been very few things that bug me about the Pixii, and the things that do are likely my fault.
The main one I guess is that Aperture priority hasn't been super reliable. If you're trying to shoot quickly, it doesn't have time to meter the scene and you get like one in ten shots on the computer with a shutter speed of something like 1/16129 which you can sometimes rescue, sometimes not. I try to shoot full manual to avoid that (M2 user, so no great inconvenience). It seems to happen only when you're in a hurry - maybe Pixii isn't "that" camera!
Last edited: