cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Glad to see this thread is still going 
kipkeston
Well-known
sure is! My first ZM, and convinced me to get the planar. Which leaves me only to decide on either a 25 or 28
kipkeston
Well-known
Well, I might as well add a biogon shot. I've found this lens to have a very gentle smooth tonality to it. This is a negative scan, but I printed this on fiber today. The first fiber print of my life. It's drying and I won't have a chance to see it til monday, but it's really quite nice on fiber.
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jackal2513
richbroadbent
yet to see any zeiss lens that gets even close to the magic of Leica
akptc
Shoot first, think later
I have some personal experience with magic (my daughter says so) and would beg to differ.jackal2513 said:
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Lately I've actually been going out my way to make the files look as digital as possible.
I'm trying not to be scared of the beast within
I finally picked up my 501CM and there's no way I'm putting a digital back on that!
I'm trying not to be scared of the beast within
I finally picked up my 501CM and there's no way I'm putting a digital back on that!
Turtle
Mentor
jackal2513 said:
Yaaaawwwwnnnn.
I would me most grateful if you could describe Leica Magic and post examples, explaining your observations. I am fascinated as to why when I own both brands I do not feel my Zeiss lenses lack anything. Slightly different perhaps, but worse? hell no! I am also curious as to why my Canon 135 F2 L is the most incredible lens that just wows me and is not trounced by my my magically possessed Leica elmarit -M 90 2.8. Baffling.....
After goodness knows how many posts lots of people have given excellent reasons as to why they prefer one over the other. Great! However, the quoted post falls some way short....
I think that the Zeiss lenses get a lot closer to the "magic of Zeiss" and leave the "magic of Leica" to Leica lenses.
Sofa King
Established
Let's stop calling it magic and just call it what it really is. Lens signature. Which is subjective.
Olsen
Well-known
My favourite has always been the legendary Biogon 25 mm 2,8 - which is practically the same lense ans the 'legendary' Hasselblad 905SWC - 38 mm 4,0. It's been my favourite because of the histrory behind it. - I have told this story before, so, now I am repeating myself.
In the winter of 39/40 nazi Germany sent special high and fast flying Dornier photo reconnaisance planes over the harbours of neutral Norway and Sweden. To check what ships lay there and to alarm their u-boat fleet. The Dorniers flew both higher and faster than the Norwegian fighters. When the Germans attacked Norway on the 9. of April 40' - or a few days later, the Norwegian airforce managed to shoot at one. Resulting in a hit Dornier trailing white smoke when returning to Germany. This plane made a rescue landing in Småland, Sweden.
Afraid of being pulled into the war, the Swedish government complied with German demands that the crew - some died, maps, documents like order of battle, code books should be returned to Germany. The Germans did not ask for the plane, not the camera in it, very advanced for it's time. Representatives of the Swedish military intelligence showed the camera to the most prominant figure within photography and the Swedish Kodak importer; Victor Hasselblad. They asked him if he could make them such a camera. Legend say that he answered, 'not only that, I can make you an even better one'.
The camera in question was a 'super wide angle camera', a Biogon with about the same FOV as 25 mm 2,8 on 135 system og 38 mm 4,0 on MF with Multi Coating - a military secret patent at the time. A camera with 'very high resolution' that drawed 'absolutely straight lines' and practically without distortion so that the negatives could be used to identify ships from 30.000 ft.
So much for the legend.
On the M8 - which is the only rangefinder camera in current production, and will be so for forseeable future, the 25 mm version does not work so well. It prompts 28 mm frame lines ( ? - Why - ?) so it does not help to code it as a 24 or 21 mm lense. To make it work reasonably well on the M8 it must be 28 mm - coded. Even this is not really good enough. I know. I have one.
Not so with the Biogon 21 and 35 mm versions. These to prompts the right frames and signals to the M8 apropriate settings for vignette-compensation and all that. Wth the appropriate lense coding and UV/IR filter they will work just as well as any Leica lense. So, my advice; buy some of the two latter. The Biogon 21 mm 2,8 is one of the best wide angle lenses that can be bought for the M8 to a reasonable price. At 21 mm it is not quite in accordance with the legend, but it works very well on a M8.
In the winter of 39/40 nazi Germany sent special high and fast flying Dornier photo reconnaisance planes over the harbours of neutral Norway and Sweden. To check what ships lay there and to alarm their u-boat fleet. The Dorniers flew both higher and faster than the Norwegian fighters. When the Germans attacked Norway on the 9. of April 40' - or a few days later, the Norwegian airforce managed to shoot at one. Resulting in a hit Dornier trailing white smoke when returning to Germany. This plane made a rescue landing in Småland, Sweden.
Afraid of being pulled into the war, the Swedish government complied with German demands that the crew - some died, maps, documents like order of battle, code books should be returned to Germany. The Germans did not ask for the plane, not the camera in it, very advanced for it's time. Representatives of the Swedish military intelligence showed the camera to the most prominant figure within photography and the Swedish Kodak importer; Victor Hasselblad. They asked him if he could make them such a camera. Legend say that he answered, 'not only that, I can make you an even better one'.
The camera in question was a 'super wide angle camera', a Biogon with about the same FOV as 25 mm 2,8 on 135 system og 38 mm 4,0 on MF with Multi Coating - a military secret patent at the time. A camera with 'very high resolution' that drawed 'absolutely straight lines' and practically without distortion so that the negatives could be used to identify ships from 30.000 ft.
So much for the legend.
On the M8 - which is the only rangefinder camera in current production, and will be so for forseeable future, the 25 mm version does not work so well. It prompts 28 mm frame lines ( ? - Why - ?) so it does not help to code it as a 24 or 21 mm lense. To make it work reasonably well on the M8 it must be 28 mm - coded. Even this is not really good enough. I know. I have one.
Not so with the Biogon 21 and 35 mm versions. These to prompts the right frames and signals to the M8 apropriate settings for vignette-compensation and all that. Wth the appropriate lense coding and UV/IR filter they will work just as well as any Leica lense. So, my advice; buy some of the two latter. The Biogon 21 mm 2,8 is one of the best wide angle lenses that can be bought for the M8 to a reasonable price. At 21 mm it is not quite in accordance with the legend, but it works very well on a M8.
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pevelg
Well-known
I am going to be buying the Biogon. My only lense of value is the Nokton 40mm/F1.4, but as I am going to sell my Bessa R3M to buy the Ziess Ikon, I do not want the 40mm FOV as the Ziess has no frames for it. I most certainly will miss the extra f-stop though. The rest of the 35mm lenses in the f 1.4 range are too expensive, and I do not hear great things about the 35mm/f1.2 Nokton. Thus, I would vote biogon if I had it already!
lemos
Established
pevelg said:
there's a 35mm/F1.4 Nokton comming out this month
pevelg
Well-known
Great, now I have to start thinking all over again, after I had made a decission! Thanks a lot.
LOL. As it will be a couple months before I acutally purchase the lense, I'll read the reviews of the new lens as well.
By the way, great photos Carl.
LOL.
As it will be a couple months before I acutally purchase the lense, I'll read the reviews of the new lens as well.By the way, great photos Carl.
R
rich815
Guest
pevelg said:
Then you have not been reading thru this site very much. Loads of accolades. It's a fantastic performer. I loved it in terms of image ability. Sold it as I found it too big but not because of it's performace as a sharp and flare-free lens.
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pevelg
Well-known
No, I have not read this forum much in regards to the f1.2 35mm Nokton. My bias had been formed a while back when reading some various reviews, links of which I do not remember. I found this site which shows a comparison of lenses in that range.....
http://homepage.mac.com/driggett/For RFF/index.html
It seems it is a worthy contender, but as you mentioned, the size is too big. I will await for the new f1.4 Nokton and then decide.
The site listed above has some great comparison shots of the biogon at f2/2.8/8 compaired to other prominent lenses.
http://homepage.mac.com/driggett/For RFF/index.html
It seems it is a worthy contender, but as you mentioned, the size is too big. I will await for the new f1.4 Nokton and then decide.
The site listed above has some great comparison shots of the biogon at f2/2.8/8 compaired to other prominent lenses.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
You might of read the Putt's review
The 35 Nokton is the only lens I miss
The 35 Nokton is the only lens I miss
ampguy
Mentor
Hi Carl
Hi Carl
Are there mre Puts reviews than this one? :
http://www.imx.nl/photo/voigtlander/voigtlander_nokton_11235mm.html
The above summary doesn't sound overly impressive. Are you over your Nocti-lust??
Hi Carl
Are there mre Puts reviews than this one? :
http://www.imx.nl/photo/voigtlander/voigtlander_nokton_11235mm.html
The above summary doesn't sound overly impressive. Are you over your Nocti-lust??
cmogi10 said:You might of read the Putt's review
The 35 Nokton is the only lens I miss
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
It's not that impressive, but Putt's reviews mean nothing to me, I liked the lens.
hah and I'm not even close Ted, I'm just a point where it's beyond unrealistic so I'm not thinking about it. The only piece of gear I really want right now is my 75 lux back and I hope Leica takes care of it soon.
It should be a couple fun months though, I'm going to be working on a project in mexico for a little over a week, then heading to LA to work with my friend who's a Designer (Really looking forward to that) that going to Mount Shasta to shoot and work with a couple photographers. (http://www.blackbootsink.com/)
It would be cool to have a noctilux for all of that...
hmm...dammit. If you let me borrow yours I'l take good care of it
Edit:More then a noctilux I really want to add a 21mm lens before I leave. This is the first set of events I'm going to be shooting without a DSLR, I'm also not going to really be shooting any film but I'l toss my MP in the bag anyway. The kit will be 2 M8's, 35 Biogon, 50 Sonnar, 75 summilux. (Plus a small MF set up and the MP)
I think the 21 would round that out nicely.
hah and I'm not even close Ted, I'm just a point where it's beyond unrealistic so I'm not thinking about it. The only piece of gear I really want right now is my 75 lux back and I hope Leica takes care of it soon.
It should be a couple fun months though, I'm going to be working on a project in mexico for a little over a week, then heading to LA to work with my friend who's a Designer (Really looking forward to that) that going to Mount Shasta to shoot and work with a couple photographers. (http://www.blackbootsink.com/)
It would be cool to have a noctilux for all of that...
hmm...dammit. If you let me borrow yours I'l take good care of it
Edit:More then a noctilux I really want to add a 21mm lens before I leave. This is the first set of events I'm going to be shooting without a DSLR, I'm also not going to really be shooting any film but I'l toss my MP in the bag anyway. The kit will be 2 M8's, 35 Biogon, 50 Sonnar, 75 summilux. (Plus a small MF set up and the MP)
I think the 21 would round that out nicely.
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ampguy
Mentor
Hi Carl
Hi Carl
Sound like great projects Carl. I've got some great photos of Shasta over the years from driving over it during different parts of the year, mostly from digicams though.
I sold my Noctilux a couple of weeks back, sort of regret it, only after selling it did I print out some of the images, and I swear, there is nothing like this lens signature at all.
I have a friend in SF with a mint Leitz 21 2.8 with multi-finder for sale - I'll send you his contact info.
Hi Carl
Sound like great projects Carl. I've got some great photos of Shasta over the years from driving over it during different parts of the year, mostly from digicams though.
I sold my Noctilux a couple of weeks back, sort of regret it, only after selling it did I print out some of the images, and I swear, there is nothing like this lens signature at all.
I have a friend in SF with a mint Leitz 21 2.8 with multi-finder for sale - I'll send you his contact info.
cmogi10 said:It's not that impressive, but Putt's reviews mean nothing to me, I liked the lens.
hah and I'm not even close Ted, I'm just a point where it's beyond unrealistic so I'm not thinking about it. The only piece of gear I really want right now is my 75 lux back and I hope Leica takes care of it soon.
It should be a couple fun months though, I'm going to be working on a project in mexico for a little over a week, then heading to LA to work with my friend who's a Designer (Really looking forward to that) that going to Mount Shasta to shoot and work with a couple photographers. (http://www.blackbootsink.com/)
It would be cool to have a noctilux for all of that...
hmm...dammit. If you let me borrow yours I'l take good care of it
Edit:More then a noctilux I really want to add a 21mm lens before I leave. This is the first set of events I'm going to be shooting without a DSLR, I'm also not going to really be shooting any film but I'l toss my MP in the bag anyway. The kit will be 2 M8's, 35 Biogon, 50 Sonnar, 75 summilux. (Plus a small MF set up and the MP)
I think the 21 would round that out nicely.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Thanks Ted!
I think I knew that you sold it actually, too much has been going on lately to keep my head screwed on straight, it's been crazy.
I think I knew that you sold it actually, too much has been going on lately to keep my head screwed on straight, it's been crazy.