HI BILL your feeling on the m8 upgrade

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dseelig

David
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Just wondering what are your feelings on this upgrade. I pissed off a few people on the leica site. I am wondering what a real photographer thinks of the m8 and this new upgrade for 1800 dollars
 
dseelig said:
Just wondering what are your feelings on this upgrade. I pissed off a few people on the leica site. I am wondering what a real photographer thinks of the m8 and this new upgrade for 1800 dollars
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I've been concerned about Leica disappearing from the world of young journalists, documentarians, whatever, for a long time. No student or young professional photographer can afford a Leica outfit - a couple of bodies, a selection of lenses. Nor do they receive much encouragement. The Leica School which used to do 2 day seminars at photojournalism schools is a thing of the past. The death knell arrived in my mind when the big push to sell custom finished boutique Leicas in colors appeared.

The digital at $5000 without a lens continued the conversion of the Leica into a playtoy for those of us who could afford it, appreciate its quality and could operate a camera that wasn't totally automatic. Frankly, I think the upgrade is an intelligent thing. If it was done quickly and locally for a lower price on a camera that didn't cost as much to begin with, I'd be happier.

It used to be that dedicated amateurs (a badge of honor) used Leicas because their heroes (Bresson, Smith, Eisie and on and on) used them. I think it's tragic young kids can't use Leicas. But they don't miss them because their generation of heroes don't use them either. Leica has decided their camera is a very good little boutique playtoy.
 
Bill Pierce said:
I think it's tragic young kids can't use Leicas. But they don't miss them because their generation of heroes don't use them either. Leica has decided their camera is a very good little boutique playtoy.
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Harsh but honest.

Philipp
 
rxmd said:
Harsh but honest.

Philipp
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Agreed. I honour Leica for their past, and for the durability of the film cameras, but the way forward is not a path I will be taking. ZI for me.
 
Bill Pierce said:
It used to be that dedicated amateurs (a badge of honor) used Leicas because their heroes (Bresson, Smith, Eisie and on and on) used them. I think it's tragic young kids can't use Leicas. But they don't miss them because their generation of heroes don't use them either. Leica has decided their camera is a very good little boutique playtoy.
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When I studied photojournalism in the 1990's we were fed a diet of Leica 'greats' as examples of what good photojournalim is. None of us owned or even aspired to own Leicas. It is one of the bitterest ironies in professional photography that the best tools for some of the lowest paid photographic work (documentary) is the most expensive in the 35mm and small format digital arena - the Leica. It mystifies me why Leica doesn't have a product for young pros as their work would do such a great job of marketing their cameras.
 
It is discouraging to see what's happening with Leica especially in light of the renewed interest in rangefinders sparked by Cosina. You can see a level of hostility against Leica in some photography forums. Some photographers think of Leicas as expensive necklaces worn by affluent physicians and attorneys with little in common with day-to-day photography. I wonder if someday the name "Leica" will be all that's left. It will become something like the "Rollei" cameras that came out several years ago, sporting lenses by "Schneider", both made in Korea.
 
Dogman said:
I wonder if someday the name "Leica" will be all that's left. It will become something like the "Rollei" cameras that came out several years ago, sporting lenses by "Schneider", both made in Korea.
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A bit like what happened to Voigtländer actually, except that they got lucky with what the name was licensed for.

Philipp
 
"A bit like what happened to Voigtländer actually, except that they got lucky with what the name was licensed for."

In that eventuality, we can only hope Leica gets as lucky.
 
Are you guys serious?

A decent M3 from a shop can be aquired for the price of a consumer dslr. An f3.5 collapsible elmar for next to nothing....
 
doctors commnet

doctors commnet

I made a comment over at the leica forum of it being a dentists camera I was villified like there was no tomm.
 
chikne said:
Are you guys serious?

A decent M3 from a shop can be aquired for the price of a consumer dslr. An f3.5 collapsible elmar for next to nothing....
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Yes - but for a dedicated PJ to use film in a day and age of wireless image transfer to the photodesk five minutes after the event...

No, film is out of the pro PJ game. At least for dailies.
 
Darkrooms have been shut down evrywhere colleges high schools. Photo papers have dissapered. One has to be digital as a kid these days
 
dseelig said:
Darkrooms have been shut down evrywhere colleges high schools. Photo papers have dissapered. One has to be digital as a kid these days
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Do you know how cheap darkroom equipment is nowadays? You can buy really good ****e for pennies, often get it free. If a kid is interested in a film camera, he can get a film Leica for reasonable money (amazing how much money some kids have these days), at least if they are serious and REALLY want it they will stop buying as many pairs of Air sneakers and such, save up, work for some extra coin, etc. If not, there are scads of good/great RFs available for less money.

Then assemble a darkroom for next to nothing wherein they can have the joy of being away from their parents gaze, play whatever music they like and have a ball. They can order film, paper & chemicals online, which one of them goes to any store other than A&F, Aeropostale in the mall, anyway? They live online, so film and darkroom will be a welcome change.
 
dseelig said:
I made a comment over at the leica forum of it being a dentists camera I was villified like there was no tomm.
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By dentists I presume. :D

But anyway, it's cheap to get a used Leica nowadays but for a young photojournalist it's completely out of the question to use a Leica in today's market. If you want to do art, documentaries, whatever, you can get along, and it's probably good as a hobby camera for a PJ to get a different angle on photography, but as a working tool I just don't see much of a chance, no matter how cheap M3s and 3.5 Elmars are.

Philipp
 
I agree with Bill, it's a very sad state of affairs - it is simply not possible to get the access with pro SLRs that one can with something unobtrusive like a Leica. Since the inception of digital, pro cameras have all come with the previously optional "motordrive" built in. I know many PJs are using 5Ds because of the smaller size but they are still deeply conspicuous cameras by the time they have an F2.8 lens on them. Whilst PJs use SLRs because they are a universal platform for lenses from 12-1200, only when ones presence as "MEDIA" has no affect on the news situation unfolding (eg sport, press calls etc) are they ideal tools. When one is surrounded by rapidly changing circumstances and a charged atmosphere, people are far more wary of cameras - in extreme cases, their presence place the photographer a risk.

A few years back I was at the G8 Summit in Scotland. I had 2 cameras, an Olympus E1 and a Canonet. It's a great shame that the cops took my gear, wiped the cards, shredded the films and kicked crap out of me because I would like to post examples of how I was able to get better pics with the RF than the SLR.

People were highly suspicious of the media, cameras were "banned" on many of the activist sites - not surprising given the situation and yet I was able to wander around taking pictures with the Canonet. Had I been wandering with the E1, I suspect I would have been expelled from the camp in short order. Equally, I would never have taken pictures of cops taking night sticks to the heads of retreating demonstrators without the telephoto lens on the E1.

I accept that the point is moot given I came back with nothing to show from the whole sorry affair bar some bruising to my ribs but I'm sure that Bill could provide examples of pictures he has left a situation with, that would not have been possible with his Canon gear.
 
I didn't say anything about the numbers, and I did include a smiley.

I have nothing against digital except the design of 99.99% of the cameras, the b&w rendering, the look/feel of digital prints vs. silver/fibre, etc., etc.

Yes I develop and scan, but that's only because I post on the web. For prints I print in the darkroom.
 
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