rvaubel
Well-known
What really puzzles me is why they used a 6bit system for a possible 64 individual identifiers when they could have used a 7, 8, or 9bit system for 128, 256, or 512 different lenses. The 6bit system doesnt give them enough support for the lenses they should encript now! Its hard to see what they were thinking as the cost of additional code is miniscule.
Anyway, its still a good thing since the additional EXIF information won't hurt and if you don't like the in- camera processing, the dots could be disabled by some tape. The reason I mention disabling Leica's attempt at "fixing" lens abberations is that some "cures" my be worse than the disease. For instance, attemps at reducing vignetting WILL increase noise levels in the corners. For most people that is OK but I would like the option of doing it myself in Photoshop or not doing it at all.
Rex
Anyway, its still a good thing since the additional EXIF information won't hurt and if you don't like the in- camera processing, the dots could be disabled by some tape. The reason I mention disabling Leica's attempt at "fixing" lens abberations is that some "cures" my be worse than the disease. For instance, attemps at reducing vignetting WILL increase noise levels in the corners. For most people that is OK but I would like the option of doing it myself in Photoshop or not doing it at all.
Rex
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Revised post: they just told me that it is actually impossible to use the 3.4 apo. I'm highly surprised, as this is one of their signature lenses. And it won't stop me trying :bang: :bang: :bang:jaapv said:
Mark Norton
Well-known
Well, I abandoned rangefinder photography when I abandoned film and only recently got back into it with an R-D1 and love it. Going back to my M6 though and the viewfinder and focussing are rather better than the R-D1 so I'm expecting the M8 to be what my R-D1 is but a more refined implementation - more of the good things (image quality, noise, build quality, viewfinder/rangefinder), less of the bad things (quality control, shutter noise, battery life).
It will surprise me if Leica do not put a manual lens type selection menu in there but it's possible that they've tried doing so and found that if the incorrect corrections are applied (because the user has selected the wrong lens), the results are worse, not better, so will only "risk it" with a coded lens where they can be sure the lens designation is correct.
There's bound to be information published on the net for people to get busy with tape applied to the lens mount to try out the coding to see if it works for them.
There's talk on photo.net about long lead times and the new wide-angle is going to be a 17mm Elmarit which is not even as wide at the 21mm in full frame. Slightly disappointing. They should have gone for 15mm.
It will surprise me if Leica do not put a manual lens type selection menu in there but it's possible that they've tried doing so and found that if the incorrect corrections are applied (because the user has selected the wrong lens), the results are worse, not better, so will only "risk it" with a coded lens where they can be sure the lens designation is correct.
There's bound to be information published on the net for people to get busy with tape applied to the lens mount to try out the coding to see if it works for them.
There's talk on photo.net about long lead times and the new wide-angle is going to be a 17mm Elmarit which is not even as wide at the 21mm in full frame. Slightly disappointing. They should have gone for 15mm.
Mark Norton
Well-known
Ben Z said:
The lens mount is different, being fixed from the sides instead of through the back of the lens mount so that may account for it. I'm interested that the optics are the same as the later lens (which I believe ran all the way up to the ASPH version with the built-in lens hood). If so, it will be interesting to find out the code and get busy with the tape. Not sure I'm brave enough to take a dremel to it though.
In case you didn't know, the lens barrel of this lens unscrews, leaving just the lens mount, the depth of field scale and the focussing ring. Around the lens barrel, there's a 14 scribed on it, crossed out and replaced with 13 and it's 13 that appears in tiny digits on the focussing ring, rotated 90% by the meter mark, making the actual focal length 51.3mm.
mani
Well-known
i sincerely hope that thread on photo.net is mistaken in saying that lead times may be as long as 12 months.
Waiting until 2008 simply isn't a realistic option. I simply can't believe that people would be willing to wait this long to get the camera.
Can anyone confirm that this rumor might have any truth in it?
Waiting until 2008 simply isn't a realistic option. I simply can't believe that people would be willing to wait this long to get the camera.
Can anyone confirm that this rumor might have any truth in it?
Ben Z
Mentor
jaapv said:
Nor should it. Perhaps they tried it and it loses it's "APO-ness" (CA or purple fringing) so they're trying to discourage people from using it. But there's no way it makes sense that any lens that was calibrated to the M film bodies won't focus properly on the M digital body.
PeterL
--
mani said:
I'll probably wait until at least 2010 before getting into digital anyway, so for me it's no problem. Though I have to admit that the Digital M sounds like one of the first "real" digital camera to me. Most decent DSLRs are so big that, if you stack a few on top of each other in an arc, it makes for a really good igloo. Others feel like a toy I wouldn't even give my newborn nephew (I prefer wooden toys anyway). The M8 has the potential to be a mature camera based on a proven design, which would be highly welcome in the digital market as it is now.
Peter.
Bob Ross
Well-known
I saw that too, Mani and if it is true. Leica needs to release some information for those who want to try for an early delivery. There are open questions here that, while I'm sure Leica did a good job, the answers might not match all indiviual users' needs. By the time 2008 gets here they may have some valid competition to deal with, as well.mani said:
acmprojekt
Newbie
Some information about ACM
Some information about ACM
Hi Mark, I'm Andreas Kaufmann, managing Director of ACM Projektentwicklung Salzburg, Austria. As ACM Projektentwicklung is owned by the family Kaufmann and is not a Private Equity Fund, a Venture Fund or whatever fund, our intention is a longterm industrial strategy. We want help to create a Leica Camera which is able to produce and sell exciting future products. Good products and satisfied customers enable a good future for Leica.
You're absolutely right, the patient is recovering, and we should not forget that Leica Camera never stopped spending quite a lot of money for research and development.
Contrary to public belief Leica has a track record on digital cameras for ten years, which means the M8 is just a necessary consequence. The M8 will be a superior and unique camera, and there are other interesting things in the pipeline.
Some information about ACM
Mark Norton said:
Hi Mark, I'm Andreas Kaufmann, managing Director of ACM Projektentwicklung Salzburg, Austria. As ACM Projektentwicklung is owned by the family Kaufmann and is not a Private Equity Fund, a Venture Fund or whatever fund, our intention is a longterm industrial strategy. We want help to create a Leica Camera which is able to produce and sell exciting future products. Good products and satisfied customers enable a good future for Leica.
You're absolutely right, the patient is recovering, and we should not forget that Leica Camera never stopped spending quite a lot of money for research and development.
Contrary to public belief Leica has a track record on digital cameras for ten years, which means the M8 is just a necessary consequence. The M8 will be a superior and unique camera, and there are other interesting things in the pipeline.
S
Socke
Guest
acmprojekt said:
Welcome to the forum and thank you for your input.
The fact that you yourself post here and in other related forums is very welcome and makes me trust in your dedication to keep Leica Camera as a going concern.
Thank you
Mark Norton
Well-known
Thank you for contributing Dr Kaufmann. I'm aware that you are Chairman of the Supervisory Board and speak with some authority. I am pleased to hear that you are investing for the long term which is a refreshing contrast to the short-termism of UK investors.
I noticed you referred to the camera as the M8 - I am sure none of us will think you are confiming its name, just using our own shorthand to refer to it!
The camera is going to be a landmark camera and I am looking forward to being at Photokina on 26/9 when, hopefully all will be revealed.
I noticed you referred to the camera as the M8 - I am sure none of us will think you are confiming its name, just using our own shorthand to refer to it!
The camera is going to be a landmark camera and I am looking forward to being at Photokina on 26/9 when, hopefully all will be revealed.
dll927
Well-known
Any predictions on what the damned thing will COST? I'm not about to throw out my M4-2 just yet.
S
Socke
Guest
dll927 said:
As far as I know the price is 4500 Euro
Mark Norton
Well-known
There's the psychological barrier of $5000 to beat for the US which would exclude tax. That suggests £3250 in the UK including tax and €4500 in Germany including tax, as Socke says.
Welcom Andreas! We look forward to many informative posts from you to keep this RF community in high spirits.
drmatthes
Zeiss Addict
Off topic:
Bill "bmattock" Mattocks, as you have switched off email/PM, I must send you this telegram.
BILL-STOP-GLAD-YOU-ARE-WITH-US-STOP-JESKO
Bill "bmattock" Mattocks, as you have switched off email/PM, I must send you this telegram.
BILL-STOP-GLAD-YOU-ARE-WITH-US-STOP-JESKO
JohanV
another GAS victim
drmatthes said:
I would like to second that!
This thread is being hijacked. Read the rules. Stay on topic.
acmprojekt
Newbie
Mark Norton said:
Hello Mark,
You're absolutely right, I referred to the camera as the M8 - simply quoting this forum - but who knows? And I think 26/9 might be a good date to have a look at it!
Just to add a few things about our long-term prospect: ACM owns a few other smaller companies which are suppliers to the optical sector in Germany. We started our commitment in 2002 and entered into Leica in 2004. 2005 was a very rough year for Leica but we helped together with Hermès to refinance Leica Camera. So Leica is now in a much better shape to create interesting products.
Mark Norton
Well-known
Dr Kaufmann, thank you for that additional information. It's certainly interesting that your investment in Leica forms part of a wider portfolio in the industry. Leica Camera looks to be in safe hands.
I think many users were surprised by the original Hermès investment because the fit did not seem particularly good given their other brands. Was Leica nothing more than a lifestyle brand after all? It's good that Hermès remain committed for the time being and I note their CEO is also on the Supervisory Board of Leica Camera.
It's better though that the majority ownership is with an investor whose other interests are more closely allied to Leica's own business.
Since Photokina happens only every two years, I feel certain Leica Camera will make a bold statement and set out its stall for the next 2 years. The "M8", one or two new M lenses, something new in sport optics plus new products from the continuing collaboration with Panasonic.
All in all, an interesting time. My travel to Cologne is booked...
I think many users were surprised by the original Hermès investment because the fit did not seem particularly good given their other brands. Was Leica nothing more than a lifestyle brand after all? It's good that Hermès remain committed for the time being and I note their CEO is also on the Supervisory Board of Leica Camera.
It's better though that the majority ownership is with an investor whose other interests are more closely allied to Leica's own business.
Since Photokina happens only every two years, I feel certain Leica Camera will make a bold statement and set out its stall for the next 2 years. The "M8", one or two new M lenses, something new in sport optics plus new products from the continuing collaboration with Panasonic.
All in all, an interesting time. My travel to Cologne is booked...