bert26
-
Hi all,
I just got a new iMac and I'm starting fresh. Save for Lightroom, Photoshop, and Vuescan, I have nothing on this machine.
I want to rescan all my negatives and keep them organized. On my MacBook, it was just a huge unorganized cluster of scans. Some of my print file sheets are already labeled.
The way I tried to organize before was like this..
On the negative sheets I'd have
7/15 01
7/15 02
7/15 03
8/15 01
8/15 02
and so on and so forth. On my hard drive I'd have 2015, 16, 17, 18, and 19 folders with subfolders of months and in those folders 01, 02, 03 04, etc to correspond to the negatives.
Is this making sense?
I lost my way and got lazy. Stopped labeling a lot of the print file sleeves and organizing the scans so I'm starting all over.
Does the method described above seem like a good way to organize? The problem is all of the unlabeled sleeves... I have no idea when they were shot. Also how does cataloging in LR work exactly? You just add tags to each scan so then you can search for something like "dog water fountain" and then have it pop up rather than going through the folders?
I just got a new iMac and I'm starting fresh. Save for Lightroom, Photoshop, and Vuescan, I have nothing on this machine.
I want to rescan all my negatives and keep them organized. On my MacBook, it was just a huge unorganized cluster of scans. Some of my print file sheets are already labeled.
The way I tried to organize before was like this..
On the negative sheets I'd have
7/15 01
7/15 02
7/15 03
8/15 01
8/15 02
and so on and so forth. On my hard drive I'd have 2015, 16, 17, 18, and 19 folders with subfolders of months and in those folders 01, 02, 03 04, etc to correspond to the negatives.
Is this making sense?
I lost my way and got lazy. Stopped labeling a lot of the print file sleeves and organizing the scans so I'm starting all over.
Does the method described above seem like a good way to organize? The problem is all of the unlabeled sleeves... I have no idea when they were shot. Also how does cataloging in LR work exactly? You just add tags to each scan so then you can search for something like "dog water fountain" and then have it pop up rather than going through the folders?
Tim Gray
Well-known
I think what you've described makes sense. The most important thing in my mind is to a) label the film sleeves with a unique ID (date based works well) and then label the scans with that same name. I don't have an enormous amount of scans (<1000 rolls), but I have been reasonably meticulous about storing and organizing them.
When a roll comes out of the camera, I use a sharpie to write a date and the number roll that day (20200523-1). This can obviously happen a little later, in the evening, etc., and if you got off by a roll number or day, it's not a big deal, but rolls do need to get labeled. I usually label right when it comes out of the camera if I have the time, or at the first bit of down time.
I note that label in a notebook or on my phone as to what film it was, what camera, etc. Nice to have info. I use my phone for this more than I used to.
When I develop multiple rolls, I try to remember which order I loaded the canister, but it's not a big deal - I can usually figure it out from the subject matter and my notes. It is imperative to label the storage sleeves with the roll number when you file them, as you are unfortunately finding out. Might as well make up a non-dated number scheme for those rolls and label them now so at least you can find them later.
Scanned negatives are numbered with the roll ID and the frame (20200523-1-12 for the 12th frame). All scans go into a folder with that roll ID, and then that folder gets put into a folder for that year.
One very important aspect to all of this is adding metadata to the scan files. I prefer Photo Mechanic for this (been using it for years) but many people use Lightroom or other programs. When I get done scanning a roll, I add keywords, dates, descriptions, etc. to the files. This lets me search for them on my computer (Photo Mechanic Plus is great for building a catalog) and more importantly, inspect a given image that I have emailed or something, read the metadata, and backtrack to the original film roll.
For example, I tend to upload my best photos onto flickr, where they've all been tagged and organized into albums, so I can use flickr to search for photos if I need to. Then just look at the EXIF or the file name to find out what the original negative frame was.
When a roll comes out of the camera, I use a sharpie to write a date and the number roll that day (20200523-1). This can obviously happen a little later, in the evening, etc., and if you got off by a roll number or day, it's not a big deal, but rolls do need to get labeled. I usually label right when it comes out of the camera if I have the time, or at the first bit of down time.
I note that label in a notebook or on my phone as to what film it was, what camera, etc. Nice to have info. I use my phone for this more than I used to.
When I develop multiple rolls, I try to remember which order I loaded the canister, but it's not a big deal - I can usually figure it out from the subject matter and my notes. It is imperative to label the storage sleeves with the roll number when you file them, as you are unfortunately finding out. Might as well make up a non-dated number scheme for those rolls and label them now so at least you can find them later.
Scanned negatives are numbered with the roll ID and the frame (20200523-1-12 for the 12th frame). All scans go into a folder with that roll ID, and then that folder gets put into a folder for that year.
One very important aspect to all of this is adding metadata to the scan files. I prefer Photo Mechanic for this (been using it for years) but many people use Lightroom or other programs. When I get done scanning a roll, I add keywords, dates, descriptions, etc. to the files. This lets me search for them on my computer (Photo Mechanic Plus is great for building a catalog) and more importantly, inspect a given image that I have emailed or something, read the metadata, and backtrack to the original film roll.
For example, I tend to upload my best photos onto flickr, where they've all been tagged and organized into albums, so I can use flickr to search for photos if I need to. Then just look at the EXIF or the file name to find out what the original negative frame was.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
A date oriented folder tree makes sense. Picking whether the date schema is "estimated when was the photo made" vs "when was the photo scanned" show two of the axes that you can organize around when using a date folder scheme.
I mix those two organizational schema. When scanning a roll of film, I try to scan in the order that the negs are on the roll. I do my best-guess at estimating about when the last picture on the roll was made and date the roll to that date. I store the results in a date organized folder tree based on when the photos were scanned, and name the files based upon when I estimated the photos were made along with a sequence number.
So ... Let's say I have a few scans made in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Each time I import into LR, I organize the incoming files into subfolders named by date inside the year folders, so
2017
-20170104
-20170322
2018
-20180214
-20180702
-20181010
2019
-20190510
-20190829
2020
-20200103
-20200205
might be the folder hierarchy.
The file names I code with my estimated date of the film and the sequence number for an exposure on that film. So let's say that on May 10, 2019, I scanned two rolls of 120 film, one 6x6 roll that I took the last photo on somewhere about June, 1982 (because I saw photos from my college graduation at the end of the roll) and another 6x4.5 roll about October 2008 (because I saw the photos from a car meet that happens every year about that time at the end of that roll and I also noticed that there was a photo of my friend from Italy in the set and he visited in 2008). The scans are named this way using a YYMMDD-seq02 naming protocol:
820601-01
820601-02
820601-03
820601-04
820601-05
820601-06
820601-07
820601-08
820601-09
820601-10
820601-11
820601-12
081001-01
081001-02
081001-03
081001-04
081001-05
081001-06
081001-07
081001-08
081001-09
081001-10
081001-11
081001-12
081001-13
081001-14
081001-15
Notice how I used the first day of the month as the lead number in the exposure dates? If I scanned two rolls of film that were obviously made in about the same month on the same day, I'd advance the day of the month by one for each of them.
These fit into the above hierarchy in the 20190510 ("May 10, 2019") folder. Et cetera. Doing this gets the files organized nicely in the file system and named in an understandable way that relates to the exposures' date contents.
Then onto your question:
I want to avoid the use of the term "cataloging" because Lightroom uses the term catalog to refer to the entirety of the database file that contains the pointers to where the original files are in your computer's file system as well as all of each photos image processing parameters and EXIF metadata, as well as any IPTC metadata you add to each photo. The application includes another organizing tool beyond the underlying*computer file system and file naming structure as well, called Collections, which is maintained in the Lightroom catalog. There are also star ratings, color tags, and flags. You can see from just the number of organizational things that you have at your disposal that there are a vast number of ways to use Lightroom (and the computer file system) to organize your body of original exposures, your processing efforts, and the finished works.
The facility you're referring to is called "keyword" and "keywording" wherein you assign tags to each exposure, either one at a time or in arbitrarily large groups. And it is much as you suggest: You add tags to the exposures and then then use a search function to bring up everything that has a particular tag. You can consider tagging at any level of metainformation about the exposure ... location, type, specific types of content, colors, emotional keys, event names, etc etc. They're all stored in the database file and are quickly found and listed for you when you do a search. How well you tag your exposures will determine how effectively you can narrow down a search to deliver exactly what you're looking for quickly ... It's a learning process that I recommend experimenting with a lot.
Once you find the set of photos you want, you can mark them and/or put them into a collection for easy access and later use.
I hope this response has helped. I've been scanning film and organizing it for close onto four decades now. It's a big topic and there are lots and lots of different ways to do it, depending on what your level of motivation is and what the goals of doing it are.
G
I mix those two organizational schema. When scanning a roll of film, I try to scan in the order that the negs are on the roll. I do my best-guess at estimating about when the last picture on the roll was made and date the roll to that date. I store the results in a date organized folder tree based on when the photos were scanned, and name the files based upon when I estimated the photos were made along with a sequence number.
So ... Let's say I have a few scans made in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Each time I import into LR, I organize the incoming files into subfolders named by date inside the year folders, so
2017
-20170104
-20170322
2018
-20180214
-20180702
-20181010
2019
-20190510
-20190829
2020
-20200103
-20200205
might be the folder hierarchy.
The file names I code with my estimated date of the film and the sequence number for an exposure on that film. So let's say that on May 10, 2019, I scanned two rolls of 120 film, one 6x6 roll that I took the last photo on somewhere about June, 1982 (because I saw photos from my college graduation at the end of the roll) and another 6x4.5 roll about October 2008 (because I saw the photos from a car meet that happens every year about that time at the end of that roll and I also noticed that there was a photo of my friend from Italy in the set and he visited in 2008). The scans are named this way using a YYMMDD-seq02 naming protocol:
820601-01
820601-02
820601-03
820601-04
820601-05
820601-06
820601-07
820601-08
820601-09
820601-10
820601-11
820601-12
081001-01
081001-02
081001-03
081001-04
081001-05
081001-06
081001-07
081001-08
081001-09
081001-10
081001-11
081001-12
081001-13
081001-14
081001-15
Notice how I used the first day of the month as the lead number in the exposure dates? If I scanned two rolls of film that were obviously made in about the same month on the same day, I'd advance the day of the month by one for each of them.
These fit into the above hierarchy in the 20190510 ("May 10, 2019") folder. Et cetera. Doing this gets the files organized nicely in the file system and named in an understandable way that relates to the exposures' date contents.
Then onto your question:
I want to avoid the use of the term "cataloging" because Lightroom uses the term catalog to refer to the entirety of the database file that contains the pointers to where the original files are in your computer's file system as well as all of each photos image processing parameters and EXIF metadata, as well as any IPTC metadata you add to each photo. The application includes another organizing tool beyond the underlying*computer file system and file naming structure as well, called Collections, which is maintained in the Lightroom catalog. There are also star ratings, color tags, and flags. You can see from just the number of organizational things that you have at your disposal that there are a vast number of ways to use Lightroom (and the computer file system) to organize your body of original exposures, your processing efforts, and the finished works.
The facility you're referring to is called "keyword" and "keywording" wherein you assign tags to each exposure, either one at a time or in arbitrarily large groups. And it is much as you suggest: You add tags to the exposures and then then use a search function to bring up everything that has a particular tag. You can consider tagging at any level of metainformation about the exposure ... location, type, specific types of content, colors, emotional keys, event names, etc etc. They're all stored in the database file and are quickly found and listed for you when you do a search. How well you tag your exposures will determine how effectively you can narrow down a search to deliver exactly what you're looking for quickly ... It's a learning process that I recommend experimenting with a lot.
Once you find the set of photos you want, you can mark them and/or put them into a collection for easy access and later use.
I hope this response has helped. I've been scanning film and organizing it for close onto four decades now. It's a big topic and there are lots and lots of different ways to do it, depending on what your level of motivation is and what the goals of doing it are.
G
I started keeping photo records in the 1960s, using 4x6 file cards for cataloging. With the advent of personal computers in the 1980s I transcribed all this card data into a computer database file using Microsoft File. Then when File became unsupported, Filemaker, which I still use. All this of course predated Lightroom.
For post-processing digital files I started with CaptureOne since it was a freebie with the Leica M8. I later switched to Lightroom and that was a "culture shock" since the two programs were quite different. But I continued with my long-standing use of a computer database for cataloging, and fortunately there was no upset in this aspect caused by the change of post-processing application. I still do not use keywording or other user-entered databasing in LR. I store photo files in my own hierarchy of folders independent of LR. The FileMaker database allows searching on all fields including a sort of diary/dialog of where and when I was shooting, often entered right upon returning from photographing while the info is still fresh in mind.
Originally I had one file-card per roll of film, numbered sequentially. Switching to the computer for keeping records, I changed to a date-based yyyy/mm/dd numbering so that the records would naturally fall into chronological order, the date being the ending time for shooting that batch. I keep the photo files in batches as like separate rolls of film, with batches separated for different cameras and main subject or time differences, usually 50 to 200 or so per batch.
So, to find a particular image I can search the descriptive dialog, camera technical info, print and scan histories, etc, to locate the catalog number, then go to the folder hierarchy on the computer kept in order by the Mac Finder. I can also use that data to do a search of the RFF Gallery to find the uploaded photo, showing the value of entering that data when uploading!
For post-processing digital files I started with CaptureOne since it was a freebie with the Leica M8. I later switched to Lightroom and that was a "culture shock" since the two programs were quite different. But I continued with my long-standing use of a computer database for cataloging, and fortunately there was no upset in this aspect caused by the change of post-processing application. I still do not use keywording or other user-entered databasing in LR. I store photo files in my own hierarchy of folders independent of LR. The FileMaker database allows searching on all fields including a sort of diary/dialog of where and when I was shooting, often entered right upon returning from photographing while the info is still fresh in mind.
Originally I had one file-card per roll of film, numbered sequentially. Switching to the computer for keeping records, I changed to a date-based yyyy/mm/dd numbering so that the records would naturally fall into chronological order, the date being the ending time for shooting that batch. I keep the photo files in batches as like separate rolls of film, with batches separated for different cameras and main subject or time differences, usually 50 to 200 or so per batch.
So, to find a particular image I can search the descriptive dialog, camera technical info, print and scan histories, etc, to locate the catalog number, then go to the folder hierarchy on the computer kept in order by the Mac Finder. I can also use that data to do a search of the RFF Gallery to find the uploaded photo, showing the value of entering that data when uploading!
Bill Clark
Mentor
This how I organized my photo files using an iMac:
Folder for year, then
Folder for each month, using 01 January, 02 February....
(Putting just the month down didn’t work as it would alpha sort.)
In each month a folder for each event labeled with client name & date of event then
For each event a folder for RAW files and a folder for jpegs.
Large events I may use several folders.
I put all my photo files on external hard drives.
Internal hard drive only software installed.
If a client called needing something all I would need is year and month of event.
Got away from film. It was a pita for my business. I was too busy to fool around with scanning. I hired it out until I went completely digital.
Digital increased sales and profits for my business. No more film, developing and scanning costs. I had several options available that I could never do with film.
Clients were busy. Needed the stuff almost immediately, sometimes it seemed like they wanted it yesterday! Everyone’s busy.
I really enjoyed the pro photography business. If I was still in it, I would use several tech features available today that wasn’t really around when I was in business. Like utilizing wifi at each location.
I realized when it was time to get out. At least for me.
Folder for year, then
Folder for each month, using 01 January, 02 February....
(Putting just the month down didn’t work as it would alpha sort.)
In each month a folder for each event labeled with client name & date of event then
For each event a folder for RAW files and a folder for jpegs.
Large events I may use several folders.
I put all my photo files on external hard drives.
Internal hard drive only software installed.
If a client called needing something all I would need is year and month of event.
Got away from film. It was a pita for my business. I was too busy to fool around with scanning. I hired it out until I went completely digital.
Digital increased sales and profits for my business. No more film, developing and scanning costs. I had several options available that I could never do with film.
Clients were busy. Needed the stuff almost immediately, sometimes it seemed like they wanted it yesterday! Everyone’s busy.
I really enjoyed the pro photography business. If I was still in it, I would use several tech features available today that wasn’t really around when I was in business. Like utilizing wifi at each location.
I realized when it was time to get out. At least for me.
Brian Atherton
Well-known
The following works for me:
Colour and monochrome folders:
Colour
Monochrome
Colour and monochrome folders each have year folders for year (yyyy), eg:
2019
2020
Date folder for location (yyyy.mm.dd-Location), eg:
2020.04.11-Glasgow
Hierachy:
(Mono / 2020 / 2020.04.11-Glasgow)
Date is reversed so folders organise themselves in chronological order. If I stay in a place more than one day I have a date folder for each day:
2020.04.11-Glasgow
2020.04.12-Glasgow
2020.04.13-Glasgow
If I use more than one film in a day folders are labelled:
2020.04.11-Glasgow(1)
2020.04.12-Glasgow(2)
Notebooks break down days to individual frames, eg digital:
11.04.20 Glasgow
1234-1291 Art Gallery & Museum
1292 Argyle Street
1293-1323 Baitur Rahman Mosque, Haugh Road
eg, film:
11.04.20 Glasgow
01-09 Art Gallery & Museum
10 Argyle Street
11-21 Baitur Rahman Mosque, Haugh Road
Files are kept on multiple external hard drives.
Some really good examples here: main thing is to keep filing up to date, keep notes on the day and to be consistent.
Colour and monochrome folders:
Colour
Monochrome
Colour and monochrome folders each have year folders for year (yyyy), eg:
2019
2020
Date folder for location (yyyy.mm.dd-Location), eg:
2020.04.11-Glasgow
Hierachy:
(Mono / 2020 / 2020.04.11-Glasgow)
Date is reversed so folders organise themselves in chronological order. If I stay in a place more than one day I have a date folder for each day:
2020.04.11-Glasgow
2020.04.12-Glasgow
2020.04.13-Glasgow
If I use more than one film in a day folders are labelled:
2020.04.11-Glasgow(1)
2020.04.12-Glasgow(2)
Notebooks break down days to individual frames, eg digital:
11.04.20 Glasgow
1234-1291 Art Gallery & Museum
1292 Argyle Street
1293-1323 Baitur Rahman Mosque, Haugh Road
eg, film:
11.04.20 Glasgow
01-09 Art Gallery & Museum
10 Argyle Street
11-21 Baitur Rahman Mosque, Haugh Road
Files are kept on multiple external hard drives.
Some really good examples here: main thing is to keep filing up to date, keep notes on the day and to be consistent.
JohnBeeching
Well-known
I have many negatives going back for many years and I always organised them as follows and have carried this over into LightRoom:
Year
Film number
Frame number
So, for example: 1976-14-35
Since going digital I let LightRoom do the donkey work when I input the photos from the card by filing them according to date and renaming them by date and time. This automates everything and produces folders by year, month and day in which the photos are named by year, month, day, hours, minutes and seconds.
So folders: 2016, subfolder 05 (month), 23 (day)
And photos: 20160523-135644
Everything is keyworded after import, so I can easily find things by searching.
There are two major subsections within Lightroom: Film and Digital.
I have over 50000 photos in my LR catalogue and can find photos easily.
Hope this helps.
Year
Film number
Frame number
So, for example: 1976-14-35
Since going digital I let LightRoom do the donkey work when I input the photos from the card by filing them according to date and renaming them by date and time. This automates everything and produces folders by year, month and day in which the photos are named by year, month, day, hours, minutes and seconds.
So folders: 2016, subfolder 05 (month), 23 (day)
And photos: 20160523-135644
Everything is keyworded after import, so I can easily find things by searching.
There are two major subsections within Lightroom: Film and Digital.
I have over 50000 photos in my LR catalogue and can find photos easily.
Hope this helps.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
This is a good and important question.
My take: Date is the best, least ambiguous, primary sort.
1. Mark each roll uniquely. I mark with the date, e.g. 200524 for today. Or 1986-05-10. Any way you like.
2. Folder with that name for scans of each roll
3. Put that date into the filename, perhaps with the frame number, 200524-001 for example.
4. Import into lightroom
5. Create a keyword hierarchy and apply it to photos
6. Where possible, use the Lightroom feature to put photos onto the map.
7. Create a star rating system, e.g. 2=keep, 3=export to phone/tablet, 4=show, 5=best
Keyword hierarchy: France, Paris, Louve. Peter Krogh recommends, "If you are going to use Paris, also use France, so both searches will find the image. That is, besides the precise keyword, add any keywords higher in the heirarchy."
My take: Date is the best, least ambiguous, primary sort.
1. Mark each roll uniquely. I mark with the date, e.g. 200524 for today. Or 1986-05-10. Any way you like.
2. Folder with that name for scans of each roll
3. Put that date into the filename, perhaps with the frame number, 200524-001 for example.
4. Import into lightroom
5. Create a keyword hierarchy and apply it to photos
6. Where possible, use the Lightroom feature to put photos onto the map.
7. Create a star rating system, e.g. 2=keep, 3=export to phone/tablet, 4=show, 5=best
Keyword hierarchy: France, Paris, Louve. Peter Krogh recommends, "If you are going to use Paris, also use France, so both searches will find the image. That is, besides the precise keyword, add any keywords higher in the heirarchy."
robert blu
quiet photographer
When I bought LR first released I had no digital camera but found it very good to organize my scans, date and keywords work well together.
It took sometime to lear how to proper keyword, the computer has its own logic ! But when you do it in the right way it is a great help!
It took sometime to lear how to proper keyword, the computer has its own logic ! But when you do it in the right way it is a great help!
Merlijn53
Established
Imho date is not important. Keywords are. When I look for a certain negative, I look for a subject or place or person etc. So in Lightroom I have files with subjects. All scans have a unique number. This number is written on the negative sleeves.
So when I look for a certain negative I shot in London years ago, I open “London” in Lightroom and scroll through the scans. There I find the number and with this number I find the negative. I have something like 1500 rolls and with this system I find any negative within one or two minutes.
Regards,
Frank
So when I look for a certain negative I shot in London years ago, I open “London” in Lightroom and scroll through the scans. There I find the number and with this number I find the negative. I have something like 1500 rolls and with this system I find any negative within one or two minutes.
Regards,
Frank
dmr
Registered Abuser
For years, when I used to get film developed and scanned on CD, I would store them in monthly folders.
Now that I'm scanning myself and shooting more digital, I still keep monthly folders, now with subfolders per camera/scanner.
Now that I'm scanning myself and shooting more digital, I still keep monthly folders, now with subfolders per camera/scanner.