Piezography and like-minded folks

Piezography and like-minded folks

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 45.0%

  • No

    Votes: 11 55.0%
  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
MU - how goes the work?

I'm considering upgrading at this point. I've been using 1430 with k6 inks for about year now. I generally like them, but the printer has been giving loads of trouble on the pizza/pin wheel and most of the tricks are not really working for me.

So I'm looking at an Epson R3000 and would either jump to K7 or P2 or the new Pro.
I probobly won't go with the new pro as the new software doesn't sound really ready yet.

What's teh difference between K7 and P2?
 
filmtwit said:
MU - how goes the work?

I'm considering upgrading at this point. I've been using 1430 with k6 inks for about year now. I generally like them, but the printer has been giving loads of trouble on the pizza/pin wheel and most of the tricks are not really working for me.

So I'm looking at an Epson R3000 and would either jump to K7 or P2 or the new Pro.
I probobly won't go with the new pro as the new software doesn't sound really ready yet.

What's teh difference between K7 and P2?
Click to expand...

FT,

You are wrong about Piezography Pro not being fully developed. That is coming from a user who was invited to be an early adopter, and basically I was a "Beta" tester from the very beginning for Piezography Pro.

I had a 3880 and had Pizzawheel problems. I did all the workarounds. Still had problems when I made prints with ultra heavy ink loads and I would get head scrapes. Pretty much the paper would buckle from the ink load. Realize that I tend to print big and I also tend to take things to the very edge. Of course with my 7800 this never happens.

Of course this was paper dependent. I use Barata coated papers and print only glossy. YMMV.

For me the big deal is to get a floor standing big printer. Mine is a 7800. The reason is that these printers have a superior paper transport. Muffin fans pull a vacuum to hold the paper flat. No pizza wheels. Also IMHO the print quality is also better.

As far as K7 glossy (really K7-HD with the black from Piezography Pro) verses Piezography Pro, is I have extensive experience with both, and I wish I had a second printer to have both.

It really depends on the image and the file which system is better. It also depends on print size to an extent. I find that Piezography Pro has the shadow detail and deeper contrast, but I find that K7-HD has fluffier highlights. I would also say that K7-HD also has a more detailed and vast midrange.

To an extent if the image is best conveyed by contrast PP is likely the better choice, but if you are trying to trancend format and make your small format look like medium format and at times approach large format via vast midrange detail then I would do K7-HD.

Also depends on print size. On big prints the tonality really opens up.

It might be helpful to know that I basically only use two papers: Jon Cone Type 5; and Canson Platine Fibre Rag. Both are Baryta coated and are cotton rag papers. With Piezography Pro pretty much I use the same split-tone settings depending on paper, so unless you print on many different papers the advantage of infinitely variable split tones is kinda un-utilized.

For K7-HD I blend my own split-tone where I have the black from Piezography Pro, warm shadows, and cool highlights. This creates lots of depth, particularly on 20x30 images on 24x36 sheet.

As Klaus stated above in his post, minimize post processing, and maximize IQ at time of image capture if you want to transcend format. I dare say you can approach large format IQ and tonality when you have a perfect exposure and make a clean file. Not many exploit the technology fully IMHO.

For me though I think K7-HD because of being 7 shades of black and also being a two stage printing process offers the best tonality. Because the Gloss Overcoat is applied separately the papers can handle heavy ink loads better. The one pass of Piezography Pro I believe has an ink load limit because of being a one pass system.

Cal
 
Thanks C.

P-Pro: Since I'm making Dnegs most of the time and site indicates that software is still in Beta form and doesn't have all the curves map'd out, it doesn't sound ready for my needs.

So, K6 or P2?

Printer - as tempting a large format printer is, the reality is that I really do very very little printing at that size. I'm mostly making 5x8 or 11x14 negs that I can directly print from in my little dark room these days. I also don't have the room for prints on my own walls that much bigger then 11x14 (nor do any of my friends). So I'm still looking at medium sized printers as a whole.

I currently have a P600 that I use as my color mode printer for anything color related, and the 1430 that I've been using for the B&W contact negs (no B&W prints straight from the printer either). My printer has developed dreaded pizza wheel problem and really rakes the negs I make. I've done most everything that's suggested to get it stop, but I'm still running into problems I hate to say. Ergo, a look a bigger and better printer.

From what I've been reading the R3000 seems to have the least problems concerning pizza/pin wheels. It also adds more channels of Color/B&W, so I go better then K6.
 
Update - Id din't pick up a R3000, but found an epson 7800 that was all clogged up (not used for the last 2 years), but came with about $600 in paper. After a week, it's now unclogged and running color for me.

Now, to convert or not convert, that is the question.
 
status update

status update

The printer conversion went smoothly. You can see results I've posted on my instagram.https://www.instagram.com/only.monochrom/

Even though I downloaded, paid for, and used Roy's QTR and Print tools, I got surprisingly great results from the Epson ABW with DARKER and +10 in highlight, shadow and contrast.

It's a fun journey so far.

Side note, you can find expired 700ml Epson UC-K3 Matte Black Ink for under $100 on eBay. That means I can fill an entire set of refillable cartridges for under $100 including the cost of the base I use to dilute the ink.
 
update

update

As a follow up. Since I don't have a densitometer, spectrophotometer, or working scanner - I haven't been able to create a custom profile. I've found that the profiles for the 4800 that come with QTR are decent. However, using the epson ABW and tweaking the values in the ABW dialogue box actually give me better results. And ABW is pulling ink from all 8 channels. It's all fun to experiment.

Update August 17/19
So obviously ABW Doesn’t pull from all 8 channels- only 5. After more experimenting and finding a couple quadtone RIP videos on YouTube, I’ve got it all working nicely with qtrRIP And pulling from all channels. Getting nice skin tones and amazing blacks.
 
filmtwit said:
Update - Id din't pick up a R3000, but found an epson 7800 that was all clogged up (not used for the last 2 years), but came with about $600 in paper. After a week, it's now unclogged and running color for me.

Now, to convert or not convert, that is the question.
Click to expand...

FT,

Congrates on securing a working 7800. Way back when I paid $100.00 for mine because the owner was moving back to Japan and wasn't going to ship the printer.

It was a 10 year old printer that only made 1805 prints over its lifespan, but was utilized just enough not to develop any permanent clogs.

A few months ago my 3880 died. I was doing some maintenance cleaning the capping station and something sprung loose. Pretty much I had an exploded diagram like Humpty Dumpty could not be made whole again.

I recycled the carts, chip resetters, and spare maintenance carts to a friend who has a working 3880. No complaints because I used the 3880 very heavily, and I'm surprised it lasted 5 years the way I printed with it.

You should know that the 78XX and 98XX printers are the last of the Epsons that are user servicable. I found the service manual online as a free download. Of course I used the printer at work to print out the about 600 pages.

Earlier this year in the spring I loaded ink and began printing, but I had some problems with intermittent clogs and banding. Previously I put the printer into storage mode with Piezoflush, and in the past this cured the problems, but this time I only got a few good prints before intermittent clogging returned.

So now this printer is about 13-14 years old and even though it was not used so much in its prior life, I kinda used it heavily. Understand that in one year I spent over $10K in paper and ink taking advantage of sales/discounts.

At this point my 7800 sits loaded with Piezoflush, I have on hand a full set of Epson OEM "Dampers," and I'm waiting for cooler weather when I will print again to install them.

Dampers are these filters that accumulate deposits that are right before the print head. Jon Cone recommends changing them every 2 years on a heavily used printer: mine are the original factory OEM's.

You have a maintenance menue that will give you the status of the carraige, capping station, print head, ink pumps... Pretty much you have the information to show how much life is left in each system.

On my 7800 I have either **** or ***** where ***** is new or still fresh. Basically at worse I only have utilized 20% of the life one system, and all the others remain fresh.

The Jon Cone carts for the 7800 are oversized. Pretty much I removed the cart doors because you no longer can close the doors. To fill a cart is about 350 ml, so you litterally pour from 700ml bottle into a funnel.

About every two weeks I topped up my carts. If you print glossy the Gloss Overcoat or Gloss Optimizer depending on if you print K7-HD or Piezography Pro gets drained the most.

Also know that rolled paper has cost savings. The paper transport is so much better than any desktop printer that you will soon be spoiled.

If you have to replace the printhead it is $1k for the part, but also know that the 7800, 7880, 9800, and 9880 are all known to have long print head life. My print head is **** meaning I have 80% left.

Cal
 
Cal,

Right now, I'm keeping it on color as I'll be heading to Vermont in a few weeks for one of Jon's everything in one week long classes.

1) The printer also came with extra empty over sized carts. I'll use those, but looking at Jon's sight, when converting for this printer it looks like recomednded is 110ml ink, but those carts are what 350ml or are they 700ml? Either way, that's a lot of ink in comparison to what I had been using with the 1430 (30ml or 60ml), which I bought maybe 1-2 refills a month with.

2) I'm hoping to see if I an't get better discount in person for inks. I'm not really going to hold my breath here either, but it's not cheap to convert this printer over B&W.

btw - how do you look up how many prints have been made?

Thanks,
 
filmtwit said:
Cal,

Right now, I'm keeping it on color as I'll be heading to Vermont in a few weeks for one of Jon's everything in one week long classes.

1) The printer also came with extra empty over sized carts. I'll use those, but looking at Jon's sight, when converting for this printer it looks like recomednded is 110ml ink, but those carts are what 350ml or are they 700ml? Either way, that's a lot of ink in comparison to what I had been using with the 1430 (30ml or 60ml), which I bought maybe 1-2 refills a month with.

2) I'm hoping to see if I an't get better discount in person for inks. I'm not really going to hold my breath here either, but it's not cheap to convert this printer over B&W.

btw - how do you look up how many prints have been made?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

FT,

The Jon Cone carts hold 350ml. I suggest buying 700ml bottles (largest). The 7800 is a thirsty printer... Also buy two 700 ml bottles of Gloss Overcoat because you will have to refill this about twice as much if you print glossy like me.

Literally when filling a 7800 you will pour half a 700 ml bottle via a funnel into each cart.

When I bought a set of carts and a gallon of Piezoflush to store my "new" 7800, it set me back nearly $500.00, and pretty much not much Piezoflush was leftover. Perhaps 500-700 ml extra.

The way to save is to bulk up when Piezography has a sale. This happens a few times a year. To stay informed sign up for their newsletter to get the e-mail blasts that include the sales.

Understand that 13x17 prints are small by Piezography standards, and that Piezography will encourage you to print big, and this is where the resolution will get displayed and the tonality.

110 ml will easily be consumed by instituting an initial fill alone.

I had to refill my Gloss Overcoat every two weeks. Once loaded with ink I printed several times a week; either 17x20 sheets or 24x36. At the same time I would top off the 7 shades of black as maintenance.

Cal
 
filmtwit said:
Cal,

btw - how do you look up how many prints have been made?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

FT,

I'll have to look this up tonight in the operating manual.

Basically turn on the printer, no computer hookup is needed, and you scrool through the menu. One setting will give/provide all the maintenance status of each system in terms of asteriches, where 5 (*****) is like new. **** means 20% has been used and 80% remains.

Somewhere in the menu is how many prints have been made, but this does not denote the size of the prints. Since I have mucho 20x30 images on 24x36 sheets you have to realize that big prints mean heavy use.

I print unidirectional for higher IQ, so a single printing of a 20x30 image on 24x36 sheet takes about 40 minutes for one pass. With K7-HD a second pass is required to apply the gloss overcoat, but this can be performed in bidirectional mode without any sacrifice in IQ. Takes about 20 minutes.

Of course there is a delay between the first printing and the second to allow for drying.

I'll check the owner's manual tonight.

Cal
 
filmtwit said:
Cal,

Right now, I'm keeping it on color as I'll be heading to Vermont in a few weeks for one of Jon's everything in one week long classes.
...
Thanks,
Click to expand...


Congrats, you are in for a treat in regards to quality and dedication.
Be prepared to be spoiled by the results that they can achieve. Nothing else will do after you've seen what is possible and what difference it makes. I have not taken a class but was up there for a studio day of Piezography printing. 20x30 on 24x36 paper. I brought my own Hahnemuehle FA Baryta. I worked with Dana that day. Unfortunately she left the company last week, they had a farewell paella feast. I wish her good luck in her new endevours.

I keep my fingers crossed that the 1 week class will be as stunning an experience as my studio day of printing.

A great little restaurant not too far from Topsham,VT:
The Little Grille's Comida Mexicana
55 Smith St, Woodsville, NH 03785, USA

(Best Burger I have had in my life: CAMILA'S FAMOUS BRAZILIAN BURGER).
Do keep us posted about your experience.
 
FT,

Turn on the printer and depress the "Menu" button. Press the "Down" arrow until "Printer Status" is highlighted. Repeatedly press the "Down" button to scroll to "Total Prints," then press "Menu." When done depress the "Left" arrow.

To check other printer parts/systems press the "Down" arrow to highlight "Service Life," then press "Menu" to scroll through the status and available life of the carriage motor, paper feed motor, printhead, cleaning unit, and pressure motor.

Press "Pause" to exit the menu.

At this point my now 14-15 year old printer needs to have the dampers replaced. This set me back $350.00 for Epson OEM dampers and not cheap Chinese versions. (I can say this because I'm Chinese.) Everything but my printhead registers ***** except my printhead that is ****. ***** denotes 100%-80% so even though I made mucho many big prints and heavily used my printer for a few years all but the print head is still kinda fresh.

BTW a new printhead costs about $1k.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
At this point my now 14-15 year old printer needs to have the dampers replaced. This set me back $350.00 for Epson OEM dampers and not cheap Chinese versions. (I can say this because I'm Chinese.) Everything but my printhead registers ***** except my printhead that is ****. ***** denotes 100%-80% so even though I made mucho many big prints and heavily used my printer for a few years all but the print head is still kinda fresh.

BTW a new printhead costs about $1k.

Cal
Click to expand...

I'll definitly check and see how worn my printer is as soon as get home from work. Thanks.

It sounds like sourcing more used 7800 is way cheaper then buying any of the parts for it?
 
filmtwit said:
I'll definitly check and see how worn my printer is as soon as get home from work. Thanks.

It sounds like sourcing more used 7800 is way cheaper then buying any of the parts for it?
Click to expand...

FT,

These printers are like pre-1972 cars without pollution/emission controls. Also built like pick-up trucks.

My 14 year old printer is basically still has plenty of service life left in it. Changing the dampers is the first real service other than cleaning the capping station and the bouts of storage with Piezoflush.

Cal
 
Time to pull out the plastic card with the "magic numbers" and load up the truck.

I received an E-mail blast that Piezography is having their Labor Day Sale.

"Load up," I say and think of all the money you'll save. LOL.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
Time to pull out the plastic card with the "magic numbers" and load up the truck.

I received an E-mail blast that Piezography is having their Labor Day Sale.

"Load up," I say and think of all the money you'll save. LOL.

Cal
Click to expand...

So is Bostwyck and Sullivan. Ugh.
 
Great News! I just posted this very question on the community forum about any upcoming sales for BF. I've been a Cone Color & Piezography user for a number of years and for some reason I don't get these notices.
 
kjrslr said:
Great News! I just posted this very question on the community forum about any upcoming sales for BF. I've been a Cone Color & Piezography user for a number of years and for some reason I don't get these notices.
Click to expand...

K,

I always wait for these sales.

"Load up the truck," I say.

Cal
 
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