Vertical Line Problem

[Jim-st]

M8 10702 is fixed this & problem will never happen but for the 10701 its still a ticking bomb

From what I can see the 10702 is the chrome version, and the 10701 is the black version.... are there other differences?

If not how can it be that the vertical line problem is fixed in the chrome but not the black version?

Regards

Jim

 

[Doug]

Well, Jim... As it happened, my chrome 10702 DID have the problem, and the camera was fixed at LeicaUSA last July. My black 10701 did not have the line problem then, but recently I've seen a hot pixel appear at higher ISO, so I need to look into that further.

 

[Viktor Sebastian]

If you download a program called crossover it will work.

Too bad Pixelfixer doesn't run on Mac.

 

[darkspark]

I full CLA should have gotten you a certificate for a full year guaranty - I am starting to get the feeling somebody over there has taken a dislike against you....

I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]

And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.

Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...

Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.

 

[menos]

Has any M8.2 been reported for this problem or did Leica tighten the QC with the introduction of the M8.2?

I am on the verge of getting a used M8.2 and feel a bit uncertain regarding the reported issues.

 

[Doug]

Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But in any case I would advise buying a used digital-M from a good dealer who will offer a warranty and provide good customer service. When I finally heard about this, and discovered my chrome M8 had it (took a careful search of full-scale TIFFs having no noise reduction), my dealer PopFlash arranged service at Leica and acted as intermediary in shipping and getting the repair at no charge and upgrades done.

 

[Symeon]

It seems that the very first batch of M8s that came out were flawed in various ways. The sensor was one, high ISO performance was another, banding and moire effects, also when very long exposures were used. All through 2007 it was 50-50 you got a proper M8 but by the end of that year the new batch was better. I never had a single problem with my M8 and I have had it for 2,5 years (and over 5000 pics). Covered or not by a guarantee one should definitely send the camera for repair, problems like banding will only get worse.

 

[menos]

Doug and Symeon, this sounds encouraging.
I am sure, to check the camera closely.

Do Leica batteries come with a sufficient charge out of the box, to do a few dozen test frames? I would buy a second battery anyway and I am afraid, the dealer is rather careless about fully charging second hand camera batteries.

I bring a computer and plan, to scrutinize the files closely.

 

[menos]

I bought the one, I saw at the dealer - it is sweet so far!
Everything, that has been reported about the M8 seems to fit (including the downsides as forbidden ISO 640 and rough shutter release feel,…).

It does not show a dead pixel line or unusual banding in black frames so far.

I like it so far.

 

[Jeicob]

Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But ....

I had to do without my M8.2 for six weeks

 

[remphoto]

After being treated like that why would you then spend 7000 more with them for a M9? I know leicas are (were) special but there are limits.

I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]

And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.

Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...

Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.

 

[Doug]

Thanks, Jeicob, I'm now better informed!

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

forbidden ISO 640

Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500


M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500

 

[menos]

Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500


M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500

Thanks for the proof Gabriel.

After using the M8.2 now for a few weeks, I have learned, that the sensor reacts very different from my R-D1 or the Nikon DSLRs, I use (or pushed BW film for that matter).

With just one stop underexposure, the digital M can show some really nasty banding and noise, where other cameras are behaving more gently.

Exposed properly and even ISO 2500 does provide magnificent quality, which is a bonus, but harder to nail.

 

[tim_c]

The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.

 

[menos]

The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.

Tim, I have to disagree respectfully to both points.
The vertical line issue does not occur on all cameras - my M8.2 does not show it (I tested in the shop BEFORE buying with a laptop and pushing a underexposed file in Lightroom, to verify this).

I urge everyone, who buys a M8, M8.2, M9, to do the same. There are quite some stories from buyers, who find out about this and other easy, to check for issues AFTER they bought the camera and have a monthly long hassle, to get the issues repaired.

The digital M clearly cannot be bought without seen!

Secondly, the digital M gives a lot less headroom for pushing than BW film or other cameras, I used so far for low light shots.

I can push M8.2 files semi comfortable (but not safe) for usually one stop, before banding and strong shadow noise become uncomfortable.

I shoot Tri-X 400 in low light, metering at ISO 3200 or even ISO 6400, processing with TMax developer, scanning on a flatbed and push shadows for another one or two stops, if needed !

The digital M is far from coming close, to deliver such robust data!

The EPSON R-D1 is another camera, which delivers much more robust files for pushing, while I shoot it most comfortably at ISO 800 and push from there, it can be used under controlled lighting at ISO 1600 and pushed two stops further.
It shows not an as clean exposure, as the M8.2, when perfectly exposed at this high ISO speed, as it will show grain similar to film, but further pushing ALWAYS gave me more headroom, than the more fragile files from the M8.2.

I will not talk about the Nikon D3 sensor here.
The M8.2 delivers beautifully, but boy, should you expose spot on or loose the shadows.

For low light (night time shooting in dark streets), pushed BW film is still king, right with the D3. The EPSON R-D1 comes quite close, while the M8.2 really doesn't like this kind of light and needs more often a few stops more light or a heavy contrast processing, hiding the ugly shadows (like in the excellent ISO2500 image above btw ).

 

[Doug]

I will agree with Menos' diplomatic first few comments.

The bright line on my chrome M8 occurred on every shot (ISO was set to 640 throughout), and in normal daylight exposures with no manipulation in post. Most easily visible in shadow/darker areas of the image. But I discovered it only after reading about it and pixel-peeping my TIFF files, some 6 months after purchase. My dealer PopFlash responded immediately and handled the communications with Leica to get it fixed.

After finding the line in my chrome M8 I immediately searched for the same proplem in the files from my black M8, but it was clean.

 

[maggieo]

Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.

 

[Doug]

Maggie, sorry to hear of your M8's illness. Through my dealer, mine went to New Jersey for the line and also for the shutter and viewfinder upgrades, taking from May 27 through July 5 including shipping time. Not too bad I thought, but hope yours is faster.

 

[ampguy]

Hi Maggie

Hi Maggie

Did the lines just start appearing, or did you just start noticing them?

At what ISO, and exposures, if you recall? Thanks, and sorry to hear about this, I hope they rush your fix.

Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.