Photon42
burn the box
Avotius said:
As for the decisive moment, I particularly like #2 (old lady sitting). Had a good laugh on karate kid and like the light in the first one.
Regards
Ivo
northpole
Established
Avotius
Truly remarkable shots. Thank you for uploading them and sharing them with us. Peter
Truly remarkable shots. Thank you for uploading them and sharing them with us. Peter
UweFlammer
Newbie
NB23 said:
Nice picture - but how did the guy react after he realized that you took his picture? And how will he react if he will find his picture published here?
Basically, i like the idea of "street shooting", but i do not feel well while capturing other peoples pictures without asking before.
Best regards
Uwe
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
What is a decisive moment? Sorry, but it's not clear for me.
Anyway, I see it as fleeting event that happens once, and that expresses something more general ... a sort of epiphany (in Joyce sense).
If so, I don't see any decisive moment in your pic Ned, though there is something interesting. I'm surprised you post this picture as an example of a decisive moment while your portofolio is full of true decisive moments. See your Tzigans gallery which I just love. I remember also the picture of that guy popping his head out under the snow ... superb decisive moment. But here I don't see that. I asd that a picture (especially when it's a decisive moment) doesn't need any explanation. Would you agree?
I think the same of Avotius' pictures. They are gorgeous pictures in the style of the National Geographic (especially the one with the cormoran that is very familiar), but there's nothing decisive. IMO only the last one is a decisive moment if we interpret the flower in relation with the lovers in the background.
Ok, I know it's easy to criticize. Time to expose myself to criticism then.
Anyway, I see it as fleeting event that happens once, and that expresses something more general ... a sort of epiphany (in Joyce sense).
If so, I don't see any decisive moment in your pic Ned, though there is something interesting. I'm surprised you post this picture as an example of a decisive moment while your portofolio is full of true decisive moments. See your Tzigans gallery which I just love. I remember also the picture of that guy popping his head out under the snow ... superb decisive moment. But here I don't see that. I asd that a picture (especially when it's a decisive moment) doesn't need any explanation. Would you agree?
I think the same of Avotius' pictures. They are gorgeous pictures in the style of the National Geographic (especially the one with the cormoran that is very familiar), but there's nothing decisive. IMO only the last one is a decisive moment if we interpret the flower in relation with the lovers in the background.
Ok, I know it's easy to criticize. Time to expose myself to criticism then.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Ned - no i won't call it a decisive moment.
The next moments could be exactly the same.
Without your background story, i only see a guy with a piece of paper looking somewhere with a face that is slightly confused.
It could be that he was calling someone on his phone when there was a car accident happening on the left of the photographer and he looked there. Or he might just be staring without any aim, and thinking about how to tell an employee that he'll be fired. Or it could be that there is an elephant walking on the street. I don't know.
The shot is okay but i won't call it decisive moment.
What is "Leica decisive moment photography" anyway? why is the brand name included in the expression?
The next moments could be exactly the same.
Without your background story, i only see a guy with a piece of paper looking somewhere with a face that is slightly confused.
It could be that he was calling someone on his phone when there was a car accident happening on the left of the photographer and he looked there. Or he might just be staring without any aim, and thinking about how to tell an employee that he'll be fired. Or it could be that there is an elephant walking on the street. I don't know.
The shot is okay but i won't call it decisive moment.
What is "Leica decisive moment photography" anyway? why is the brand name included in the expression?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Michael Harris: The shot has a nice atmosphere, i like it in general. But decisive moment? why?
again: you were there you KNOW you REMEMBER what as happening. We know it as well cos you told us what to think.
But otherwise, it's just a well composed shot of a few persons in the evening standing in front of a window buying tickets for some show, talking between them about something. The next moments, minutes could be exactly the same looking. Even the next hour could look exactly the same, except the "actors" of the scene will be different.
again: you were there you KNOW you REMEMBER what as happening. We know it as well cos you told us what to think.
But otherwise, it's just a well composed shot of a few persons in the evening standing in front of a window buying tickets for some show, talking between them about something. The next moments, minutes could be exactly the same looking. Even the next hour could look exactly the same, except the "actors" of the scene will be different.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Keith: that's quite decisive indeed. It only lasted a moment, and it brought something extra in the shot. It gave sense to taking the shot. I like it.
NB: i read your comment about your shot and the guy being molested. Now that i look for it, indeed it looks like a guy is being molested behind the window. Difficult to see though.
So i correct myself: it is indeed a decisive moment shot. In the meantime this makes the shot worthy of looking at.
You could do an interesting test (or maybe that's what you were doing - in that case you did fool me ). Put it up somewhere and see how many people notice it and how much time they need to notice it.
It's risky though. If nobody notices it then the shot is probably too complicated/crowded and therefore it is not well composed.
I have difficulties facing the situation when i love one of my shots but nobody seems to get the point why i shot it at all. It depresses me a bit
NB: i read your comment about your shot and the guy being molested. Now that i look for it, indeed it looks like a guy is being molested behind the window. Difficult to see though.
So i correct myself: it is indeed a decisive moment shot. In the meantime this makes the shot worthy of looking at.
You could do an interesting test (or maybe that's what you were doing - in that case you did fool me
). Put it up somewhere and see how many people notice it and how much time they need to notice it. It's risky though. If nobody notices it then the shot is probably too complicated/crowded and therefore it is not well composed.
I have difficulties facing the situation when i love one of my shots but nobody seems to get the point why i shot it at all. It depresses me a bit
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Avotius: great shots indeed.
All of them are more something like shooting interesting scenes, but they are not really decisive moments in my oppinion. They are scenes that can repeat in that surrounding. Not exactly of course, but what the main subjects of the images are, at least as I see them, can happen again and again.
Except the one before the last. There i guess it IS a unique moment, and a decisive moment in that sense.
OK, probably the very first one is also unique because everything clicked into the right place when you made the shot.
All of them are more something like shooting interesting scenes, but they are not really decisive moments in my oppinion. They are scenes that can repeat in that surrounding. Not exactly of course, but what the main subjects of the images are, at least as I see them, can happen again and again.
Except the one before the last. There i guess it IS a unique moment, and a decisive moment in that sense.
OK, probably the very first one is also unique because everything clicked into the right place when you made the shot.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Marc - Folllowing your own definition of the decisive moment, and your reasoning about the other shots: How many times an old man will reach down the street for a dropped piece of food?
As many times as homeless or beggar people get hungry
I keep on looking through the shot, the background, the guy who walks in, but i see nothing that would add the decisive character to your shot
So please explain. Might be that i am not seeing the big picture.
As many times as homeless or beggar people get hungry
I keep on looking through the shot, the background, the guy who walks in, but i see nothing that would add the decisive character to your shot
So please explain. Might be that i am not seeing the big picture.
gdi
Mentor
If everyone asked before there would be no street photography as we know it. That said, I have problems with street photography myself - I am too self conscious to just snap away - plus nothing cool happens on the streets near where I live!UweFlammer said:
Avotius
Some guy
im not convinced that the scene had to be totally unique. For some reason I dont think that is what HCB had in mind when he came up with this frame of thought. His shot of the staircase between the buildings and the bike going by down below comes to mind.
That said I am glad you took the time to critique a bit. I have a problem with writing that I do with photography, I write something, then I cant edit my own stuff sometimes because to me it looks right. It takes someone else to come in and discuss it with me before things really start to come together as a whole.
That said I am glad you took the time to critique a bit. I have a problem with writing that I do with photography, I write something, then I cant edit my own stuff sometimes because to me it looks right. It takes someone else to come in and discuss it with me before things really start to come together as a whole.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Avotius - i also don't know what HCB was exactly meaning with the expression.
This whole thread started i think from the man-jumps-puddle shot of Cartier-Bresson. That shot, in the happenings that are clearly visible, spiced with the background (the poster with the ballerina, etc) that fits so well, is a unique scene though, and does not need anybody telling us what is happening and what will be the outcome of the happenings. That's how i see the definition of a "decisive moment". Unique? Maybe even that is not totally unique, Could be that another person tries the same jump some other time and misses in the same way, and the surroundings are lined up in a similar way, and there's another photographer in the right angle in the right moment pressing the button. So indeed, maybe it does not necessarily have to be really unique.
But i know what you mean by editing. I feel very similar sometimes. And i do have to do writing for my job, so it's more serious than when i take shots.
This whole thread started i think from the man-jumps-puddle shot of Cartier-Bresson. That shot, in the happenings that are clearly visible, spiced with the background (the poster with the ballerina, etc) that fits so well, is a unique scene though, and does not need anybody telling us what is happening and what will be the outcome of the happenings. That's how i see the definition of a "decisive moment". Unique? Maybe even that is not totally unique, Could be that another person tries the same jump some other time and misses in the same way, and the surroundings are lined up in a similar way, and there's another photographer in the right angle in the right moment pressing the button. So indeed, maybe it does not necessarily have to be really unique.
But i know what you mean by editing. I feel very similar sometimes. And i do have to do writing for my job, so it's more serious than when i take shots.
Avotius
Some guy
Pherdinand said:
Indeed, I totally agree with you. Its hard to understand these ideas sometimes. For me the moment is just the moment when everything snaps right into place. It looks good, thing are going well, and its just the way its supposed to be. I didnt think about that shot of the guy on the puddle but that one does add a monkey wrench into the pot, something to ponder...
sebastel
coarse art umbrascriptor
hi uwe,UweFlammer said:
nice to see you posting here ...
while i can understand your concern - it is the main reason why i hesitated to take pictures of people for a long time - i found that taking pictures of unpopulated sceneries is just not that interesting.
so, i came to the conclusion that i need to point my lens towards what really moves me, and that are people.
still, this does not mean to forget my respect! i'll not publish any picture showing someone else in a disrespectful way. of course, there are laws to obey (especially in germany!), and not obeying them puts you to the risk of being fined.
since i do not find the pictures shown here to be objectionable, i can not see an obvious reason not to publish them. in order to be "on the safe side" of course, it would be nice to have a signed agreement of the people in the picture ........
do you always have forms with you, ready to sign?
cheers,
sebastian
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ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I sit in the same place as a lot of other guys and we see 'decisive moments', and because we're just wasting time there we laugh at the three-legged dog, the guy who falls off his bicycle, and the kid being dragged along by their parent.
There is much to smile at in day to day life. You just need to be in the right place, and see the happening, and make the photo.
HCB may have waited by that puddle for an hour or more until some guy tried to jump over it.
There is much to smile at in day to day life. You just need to be in the right place, and see the happening, and make the photo.
HCB may have waited by that puddle for an hour or more until some guy tried to jump over it.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Pherdinand said:Marc - Folllowing your own definition of the decisive moment, and your reasoning about the other shots: How many times an old man will reach down the street for a dropped piece of food?
As many times as homeless or beggar people get hungry
I keep on looking through the shot, the background, the guy who walks in, but i see nothing that would add the decisive character to your shot
So please explain. Might be that i am not seeing the big picture.
Thanks Pherdinand. I agree with your definition of a decisive moment as it overlaps with mine. Maybe the idea of uniqueness is to strong (nothing is abslutely unique), that's why I mention Joyce's idea of epiphany: an event that happens and means something general about the human existence (character/value/instinct ...etc) and changes the mind of the spectator/actor or the event.
I guess Joyce's definition of an epiphanyis the closest to how I see a photographical decissive moment:
"First we recognise that the object is one integral thing, then we recognise that it is an organised composite stru ' cture, a thing in fact: finally, when the relation of the parts is exquisite, when the parts are adjusted to the special point, we recognise that it is that thing which it is. Its soul, its whatness, leaps to us from the vestment of its appearance. The soul of the commonest object, the structure of which is so adjusted, seems to us radiant. The object achieves its epiphany." (Stephen Hero)
Now about my picture: the man dropped his baguette and I decided to shoot the scene because I saw him pick it up. So he's not a beggar/homeless rushing on food - I thought his appearance made it obvious. The genuine scene is not so common, at least it's not so common to catch it in the right moment - which can be seen as a decisive moment. Besides, that the guy pick up a baguette he just dropped, makes it one of the saddest scene for me. I remember having talked about it with Tuna who told me a story about his childhood. You can see this scene with your own experience, your own feeling (disgust/pity/humour etc), or just see it as a moment in the street life.
I would like to have your (critical) opinion which is important to me.
Best,
Marc
PS: the picture is a crop. I find the picture more interesting in fact, but I can post it ... the guy behind is Beniliam and I don't know if he's ok with being exposed here.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Avotius said:
I guess you're right. As I said, I'm a bit lost about the definition of a decisive moment, and HCB's book doesn't really help us to know what it is exactely. That we discuss it from concrete examples, pictures, is a good way to grasp intuitively what is or at least what is not a decisive moment. Tough matter.
Best,
Marc
x-ray
Mentor
Colin:
Some more of your beautiful work. The shot of the ducks on the moped is a winner. What a great eye! What a great time and place to capture change. Keep it up and happy birthday 11/6.
Don
Some more of your beautiful work. The shot of the ducks on the moped is a winner. What a great eye! What a great time and place to capture change. Keep it up and happy birthday 11/6.
Don
TimSmith-Laing
Established
Hey guys,
As someone who spends a lot of time traipsing around looking for the 'decisive moment' I think this is a pretty interesting debate.
Partially, for me, the 'Wish-I-was-Cartier-Bresson' style of photography is simply a question of being without a darkroom and the technical expertise that allows people to make the truly stunning prints which are as much as about the pure quality of light as anything else. Since other people print my photos for me it's only the composition and the timing that I can really claim the credit for. Plus I'm as excited by people-watching as the next man with a camera. So, all in all, I'm always out for that special split second around which everything seems to pivot.
But, as this thread suggests, that's a pretty subjective idea. I think the photos here are stunning, particularly Avotius' and Marc's ... and I'm not sure it's relevant whether or not they're 'decisive moments' or not.
I reckon that any photo that manages to pluck a stunning fraction of a second from any kind of subject in motion (and for that matter, emotion) should take a fair portion of credit for being decisive.
Plus, I recently had a salutary experience regarding photographic taxonomy, which made me think a little differently about the style of photos I try to take. I was looking round the annual photography exhibition at Nihon University College of Art just outside Tokyo with some Japanese friends. They introduced me to a guy who had taken some beautiful photos in India which I'd particularly liked, and he asked me what style of photos I took. Without enough Japanese to try and explain, I turned to my friend Nanako, who has seen my shots. She turned to him and said 'Snapsu o toru', 'He takes snaps.'. And 'snaps' it turns out is what Japanese photographers term the Cartier Bresson style, without any kind of derogatory bent to the phrase at all.
So, one man's snap is another man's decisive moment, no?
Tim
As someone who spends a lot of time traipsing around looking for the 'decisive moment' I think this is a pretty interesting debate.
Partially, for me, the 'Wish-I-was-Cartier-Bresson' style of photography is simply a question of being without a darkroom and the technical expertise that allows people to make the truly stunning prints which are as much as about the pure quality of light as anything else. Since other people print my photos for me it's only the composition and the timing that I can really claim the credit for. Plus I'm as excited by people-watching as the next man with a camera. So, all in all, I'm always out for that special split second around which everything seems to pivot.
But, as this thread suggests, that's a pretty subjective idea. I think the photos here are stunning, particularly Avotius' and Marc's ... and I'm not sure it's relevant whether or not they're 'decisive moments' or not.
I reckon that any photo that manages to pluck a stunning fraction of a second from any kind of subject in motion (and for that matter, emotion) should take a fair portion of credit for being decisive.
Plus, I recently had a salutary experience regarding photographic taxonomy, which made me think a little differently about the style of photos I try to take. I was looking round the annual photography exhibition at Nihon University College of Art just outside Tokyo with some Japanese friends. They introduced me to a guy who had taken some beautiful photos in India which I'd particularly liked, and he asked me what style of photos I took. Without enough Japanese to try and explain, I turned to my friend Nanako, who has seen my shots. She turned to him and said 'Snapsu o toru', 'He takes snaps.'. And 'snaps' it turns out is what Japanese photographers term the Cartier Bresson style, without any kind of derogatory bent to the phrase at all.
So, one man's snap is another man's decisive moment, no?
Tim
