mrisney
Well-known
Well thought out assessment - BUT - this type of market is going smart phone. My guess is that the GF3 will be as ineffectual as the GF2 - in a few months, less than a year, Panasonic will quietly replace this with another model - but why is that a bad thing ?
Their focus groups, clearly identify that consumers are using their IPhones, their Android HTC's increasingly, so the designers are tasked to offer similar functionality in a system camera. The capacitive touch screen on a camera is a response to the IPhone. A market study probably shows a huge spike in consumer usage of a smartphone as a primary P&S - the GF3 is a bridge camera, to lure consumers into a system that offers interchangeable lens, and improved IQ. Once there, the idea is probably the consumer will appreciate the Panasonic offerings and upgrade to a GH, or the rumored GP Pro. I think it's a pretty clever strategy, when not only dealing with NikonCanon, but now Apple and HTC making inroads into consumer photography.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I seem to remember that a lot of us on RFF (myself included) said the same thing about Panasonic when the GF1 was released.And, there was some speculation that Panasonic was doing its market research by lurking here on RFF.
No wonder none of them want to say anything: they don't want a flame war!
raid
Dad Photographer
The dumbing down process is the wave of the future.
Recent research at Stanford University showed a "dumbing down" of students in the digital age. The brain is not being challenged to handle multiple tasks anymore. If Stanford University students show a dumbing down, then cameras have to be designed accordingly ...
This means that users of RF cameras who also manage digital scanning well are .... geniuses of the future?
Recent research at Stanford University showed a "dumbing down" of students in the digital age. The brain is not being challenged to handle multiple tasks anymore. If Stanford University students show a dumbing down, then cameras have to be designed accordingly ...
This means that users of RF cameras who also manage digital scanning well are .... geniuses of the future?
bensyverson
Well-known
They're not stupid... Everyone in the industry saw what the X100 did, and every manufacturer will try to replicate it. The problem is that the product development cycle for a camera is probably 12-18 months, so we won't see these cameras until next year sometime.
I expect the mythical "pro" Micro 4/3 camera to come out next year with tons of external controls, metal body, and retro styling.
Canon and Nikon will copy the style and premium price but doom their cameras with tiny sensors. People will still buy them (see: G series).
Obviously Fujifilm is already working on the next "X" camera, and if they do it right, they could own a huge piece of the mirrorless market.
I expect the mythical "pro" Micro 4/3 camera to come out next year with tons of external controls, metal body, and retro styling.
Canon and Nikon will copy the style and premium price but doom their cameras with tiny sensors. People will still buy them (see: G series).
Obviously Fujifilm is already working on the next "X" camera, and if they do it right, they could own a huge piece of the mirrorless market.
I think even Leica will have to take notice on its low end.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Fuji spanked Leica, hard.
250swb
-
A little rhetoric does no harm. After all we yet again hear how wonderful the X100 is, and even in a thread thats not about the X100! Just trying to add some perspective for anybody interested in discussing the GF3 or thinking of buying one without being told they are dealing with an inferior camera, especially as it isn't in the same marketplace as an X100.
Steve
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Bump!
A tiny hope for a digital version of Olympus 35 RD.
Frankly, I have no attachment to Panasonic at all. I don't really care what happens to them good or bad. As long as they manufacture good sensors and make good *prime* lenses for my Olympus cameras, I acknowledge them as being useful
_larky
Well-known
"A tiny hope for a digital version of Olympus 35 RD"
Or a digital OM1. I'd kill for Olympus to start making real cameras again.
Or a digital OM1. I'd kill for Olympus to start making real cameras again.
PCB_RF
Established
New GF May Not Be X100 Clone
New GF May Not Be X100 Clone
Gee, I dunno. The X100 is a high-priced niche camera, kinda like the high-end Contax T, Nikon 28/35, Minilux high-end film cams (in general terms of product position/niche; the X100 is clearly more analog). It has shown there's a market for this kind of camera, at this price, which is cool. But I'd reckon it sells in the low tens of thousands, which is a far cry from anything resembling "a huge piece of the [mirrorless] market."
We talk about "tons of external controls," but what's attractive is the analog shutter speed dial, aperture ring and very cool viewing system, coupled to an old-school 35/2 lens. There is a lack of external controls on the X100, to the extent that at product launch folks are already hoping for firmware updates for better direct control. And the GF1/GHx already have tons of external controls, except for analog shutter/aperture controls.
I think Fuji would have to give up too much to reach the price points you need to hit for real market penetration, and the concept doesn't really mesh with most of the users buying at those lower price points. I'm not sure the numbers would ramp up tremendously. I'd buy a $600 X50 quicker than a $1,200 X100, as long as it isn't too dumbed down, but I'm not sure any of my non-enthusiast friends/family would be attracted.
I don't see the new GFx cam being an X100 clone, I imagine a GF1 with newest sensor/processor/AF, no loss of GF1 analog controls and added touchscreen functionality. Emphasis on performance/control over compactness/simplicity.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Pana's take on the X100, but I don't think that's the same cam as the rumored new GF, and I wouldn't be surprised if it never got made.
New GF May Not Be X100 Clone
Gee, I dunno. The X100 is a high-priced niche camera, kinda like the high-end Contax T, Nikon 28/35, Minilux high-end film cams (in general terms of product position/niche; the X100 is clearly more analog). It has shown there's a market for this kind of camera, at this price, which is cool. But I'd reckon it sells in the low tens of thousands, which is a far cry from anything resembling "a huge piece of the [mirrorless] market."
We talk about "tons of external controls," but what's attractive is the analog shutter speed dial, aperture ring and very cool viewing system, coupled to an old-school 35/2 lens. There is a lack of external controls on the X100, to the extent that at product launch folks are already hoping for firmware updates for better direct control. And the GF1/GHx already have tons of external controls, except for analog shutter/aperture controls.
I think Fuji would have to give up too much to reach the price points you need to hit for real market penetration, and the concept doesn't really mesh with most of the users buying at those lower price points. I'm not sure the numbers would ramp up tremendously. I'd buy a $600 X50 quicker than a $1,200 X100, as long as it isn't too dumbed down, but I'm not sure any of my non-enthusiast friends/family would be attracted.
I don't see the new GFx cam being an X100 clone, I imagine a GF1 with newest sensor/processor/AF, no loss of GF1 analog controls and added touchscreen functionality. Emphasis on performance/control over compactness/simplicity.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Pana's take on the X100, but I don't think that's the same cam as the rumored new GF, and I wouldn't be surprised if it never got made.
PCB_RF
Established
I Keep Forgetting About Smart Phones
I Keep Forgetting About Smart Phones
I keep forgetting about those darned smart phones! I'm not sure it's about luring users into upscale product, I think it's more about convincing them to carry a small/cool/cute camera in addition to their smart phone. Sony's hit a home run in this market, with the NEX having the right form factor and very cool non-phone features. Combines the IQ from bigger sensor and interchangeable lenses with Sweep Panorama, GPS, proto-3D, etc, in a small and cool package.
I think the challenge is keeping the form factor/usability right and staying ahead of smart phones with IQ and cool features. I'm not sure it's a fight that can be won in the long term, but Sony's done well so far.
The GF3 question is whether it will perceived as small/cute enough with a cool-enough feature set to sell big numbers in that market. I don't do focus groups, and my teens are not quite as gadget-obsessed as their fellow Japanese home-market counterparts. But the market isn't only teens, you've got young families running around with diaper and/or toy bags hanging from the stroller, not too much trouble to throw a GF3 in the bag, much less trouble than tossing in a D3100.
I Keep Forgetting About Smart Phones
I keep forgetting about those darned smart phones! I'm not sure it's about luring users into upscale product, I think it's more about convincing them to carry a small/cool/cute camera in addition to their smart phone. Sony's hit a home run in this market, with the NEX having the right form factor and very cool non-phone features. Combines the IQ from bigger sensor and interchangeable lenses with Sweep Panorama, GPS, proto-3D, etc, in a small and cool package.
I think the challenge is keeping the form factor/usability right and staying ahead of smart phones with IQ and cool features. I'm not sure it's a fight that can be won in the long term, but Sony's done well so far.
The GF3 question is whether it will perceived as small/cute enough with a cool-enough feature set to sell big numbers in that market. I don't do focus groups, and my teens are not quite as gadget-obsessed as their fellow Japanese home-market counterparts. But the market isn't only teens, you've got young families running around with diaper and/or toy bags hanging from the stroller, not too much trouble to throw a GF3 in the bag, much less trouble than tossing in a D3100.